Being a female in Engineering

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>Is it an advantage or disadvantage? Would I be more likely to get over a man simply because I'm a woman and diversity is a good thing? Or less likely since I may be seem incompetent?</p>

<p>I'm only a freshmen and the only slightly sexist (either favoring women or favoring men) thing I've seen is that when assigning group projects, our teaching assistants either made groups with no girls or groups with 2-3 girls. This bugged me a little bit because I've noticed that the girls are less enthusiastic about robot building and programming (which is what the project was on). Me and the girl I was placed with had never even heard of the NXT Mindstorm stuff while the majority of the boys had experience with it. To generalize, girls prefer the Project Report portion rather than programming the robot, making it unfair to group all the girls together. </p>

<p>Other than that, I've just noticed that the boys completely ignore me. I've yet to even have a casual conversation started with me. Why is that? Do they think I'm stupid? It's actually really frustrating and I try to start conversations when I can but I always feel like they're thinking "Uhhh, why is this stupid girl talking to me?". </p>

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<p>A lot of engineering guys like pretty girls and tend not to assimilate with other engineering girls. They might think you don’t have the beauty nor the intelligence for their time. Quite arrogant.</p>

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<p>Maybe try assuming positive intent. Maybe they put the boys together and girls together to make people more comfortable. Less time flirting and more time working. In my experience, engineering boys tend to be intimidated by pretty girls and may have problems communicating simply because they have little to no experience with actual girls. Having a girl that is pretty and smart can burn up the little transistors they use for brains. Patience. They will grow out of it eventually. Being a girl is an advantage in admissions, but once you get into classes it really all depends upon the individual staff with whom you work.</p>

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<p>This can’t be a serious comment. It is far more likely that the group of individuals in question are simply intimidated by the OP given that she is a girl in engineering, which is still rather uncommon. Why would you immediately jump to the conclusion that there is some malicious intent going on or that somehow the OP is not at all attractive to said group of students? That’s just presumptuous on your part.</p>

<p>The post by @Torveaux is right on.</p>

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<p>It’s definitely an advantage when it comes to scholarships and admissions, that’s for sure. In most cases these days when it comes to jobs, though, you won’t be any more or less likely to get in over a man. There are still some (too many) horror stories of old, stereotypically chauvinistic managers out there, unfortunately, but for the most part, they aren’t going to care whether you have two X chromosomes or not as long as you are the most competent individual for the job. At the same time though, no one is going to hire you just for diversity purposes. The bottom line is what counts, not gender statistics, so their hiring decisions will be based on that.</p>

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<p>Op, is that avatar your picture? Not always a good idea. Not that the “beautiful enough” theory rings true to me, but in this case it might add an interesting spin. </p>

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It depends on the college and/or company. If you compare college applicants within a particular stats range, at some colleges female engineering applicants are several times more likely to be admitted, appearing to give a boost on par with being an URM. And at other colleges, there appears to be no significant difference for different genders. The latter colleges tend to have a very unbalanced ratio among male and female engineering students. I work in an engineering field where the vast majority are male. One of my male colleagues has an androgynous name that is more common for women than men. He’s mentioned that when he’s gone on interviews at other companies, it’s common for the interviewer to make a comment like, “Wait… you’re <name>?!.. Okay… I guess you can interview,” appearing to be both surprised and disappointed to learn he is not a woman.</name></p>

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There are many possible explanations. It may be simply that engineers are more likely to be introverted than the overall college population. It may be quite uncommon for most to start conversations with random people they don’t know, regardless of gender. I very much doubt they are thinking your comment. </p>

<p>Being female seems to be a disadvantage as far as chances of dropping out of an engineering major. A while back Duke did a study where they looked at what factors increased and decreased chance of dropping out of an engineering major. They looked at all available stats, HS course rigor, application info such as LORs and essays, income level, gender, race, how easily/harshly the classes graded, and many other factors. They found that when they compared applicants with similar stats, course rigor, application info, ,…, these factors almost completely eliminated the difference in chance of dropping between URMs and white students. However, when considering the other factors, there was still a large difference between genders. Being female was found to have a greater impact on chance of dropping out of an engineering major than any other factor in the study. I expect the types of feelings mentioned in this thread contributed to this result.</p>

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<p>@Shrinkrap I read your comment several times and I don’t understand it. Perhaps an explanation?</p>

<p>@Data10 and @boneh3ad I appreciate your comments, I’m really hoping that I’m not looked down upon for being a female, however it’s also extremely unfair to have an advantage because of it. </p>

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<p>As someone with more grey hair than brown (!!!), I’ve seen attitudes towards women in engineering change quite a bit over the years. Today women engineers are much more common and definitely more accepted. There are still some gender “issues” that I have observed. They may be common or may be unique to the companies I worked at, I don’t know which. </p>

<p>My observations are:</p>

<p>College engineering programs have many more women in them with some programs approaching a 50/50 gender split. (In my college days, women were less than 10% of the students at my school) The higher levels of women and the retiring of the older professors (who could be quite biased) makes the environment much more female friendly. (I gathered this observation from seeing my son and daughters schools and discussing it with them. They are both mechanical engineers).</p>

<p>The work place still has some older managers who do not believe women should be in engineering, but they getting scarce as they are dying off or retiring. Their attitude is the reason for many of the scare stories about gender bias in engineering. Today, it is still there but to a much, much lessor extent.</p>

<p>The bias that does exist in the workplace is based primarily on stereotypes. The female who is book smart but can’t figure out which end of the wrench to hold onto. That, verses the male who spent his youth working on his car every night. Both stereotypes are, of course, for the most part wrong. Don’t know too many women who work on their own cars but they do have the skills that they could if they wanted to.</p>

<p>The other stereotype that is relevant is that the younger women in engineering are more outgoing than the younger men. From my observations, this is true many times. This helps the younger women as they seem more comfortable with meeting new people when starting a new job or a new project. Many of the younger men have trouble getting past the one word answers in those first encounters. As one gets more experience, the gender difference seems to go away as both sexes are more used to those first meetings.</p>

<p>Stereotypes mostly set how a person is going to view you initially. You (whether male or female) need to make a reasonably good first impression. Then it is important how you come across in the first few encounters with your fellow engineers and the management. Remember, that as a new/young engineer you will be working with others that have much more knowledge of their field than you do, You need to respect that knowledge and experience but at the same time get your opinion known. It is a fine line and will be different depending on how mature the field is. (For example; I was a aerospace structural engineer and while some of the tools in the industry have changed recently, the basic ideas and the physics behind them hasn’t. A recent college hire would know the basics, but some of the problems we faced were quite complex and the knowledge and experience factor was very valuable. A graduate in a newer, emerging field might have more say more quickly)</p>

<p>After you get past those first impressions, it will come down to how well you perform. Performance is not gender based. I’ve know good and poor engineers; gender doesn’t seem to come into play.</p>

<p>The one issue that you, as a young female engineer, won’t be able to shake is the “mommy question”. I have know a few very good women engineers that got married; had kids; went out on maternity leave intending to come back but never did (most did indeed come back). A company puts a lot of work into developing their engineering staff. They want to reap the benefits of that money and time invested. So, no matter what you say or do or what your employer thinks, that “mommy question” will always be the big elephant in the room for women engineers until you get older. The way to deflect some of this issue is to be the best engineer you can and make your employer proud that they hired you.</p>

<p>Sorry for such a long post, but I think that the more you understand the office dynamics that exist, the better you can deal with them (but don’t obsess about them either).</p>

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<p>Op, sorry to be obtuse. First, I don’t think it’s considered a good idea to post a picture of yourself on the is forum. I could be wrong, but it’s pretty unusual.Second, even if that WASN’T your picture, I don’t pretty has anything to do with it. Not to be too creepy, but if that IS your picture, no way. Third, one of the intriguing aspects of internet forums is that since we don’t see each other, most of what we beleive about each other, in psychological terms, is considered “projection”. In other words, it has more to do with who SAYS it, and less to do with who s/he says it about, than is true in real life.</p>

<p>FWIW, I peeked at your thread because my son sometimes complians of the same thing. We are Arican American. </p>

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<p>1) @Shrinkrap The OP never mentioned pretty at all in her post. That was brought up by the second person.</p>

<p>2) Why is everyone seemingly fixated on how the OP looks or doesn’t look? That likely has little to do with the answer to her questions.</p>

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<p>Still confused by all this ‘pretty talk’. My reason for adding a picture was A, I had just moved my phone pictures to my computer so I had a ‘selfie’ ready. B, the first post mentioned that I may not be pretty enough, so I thought a picture may be relevant. While I don’t think I look like an ogre, I’m sure I’m no Victoria’s Secret Model. C, It seems most people on here have photos so I figured I would too. </p>

<p>(I don’t know how to properly quote people, sorry) I still don’t understand what @Shrinkrap means by “Not to be too creepy, but if that IS your picture, no way.” or why it’s relevant they he and his son are Black.</p>

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<p>I have been teaching physics at Illinois Tech for over 30 years and I think that while there may be some bias in the way the groups are constructed, it likely that the idea was not to isolate the women. If you think that the problem is that the women are not as interested or confident with the MindStorm robots then isn’t that sort of making assumptions as well? i have met any number of women who like robotics as well as the men.</p>

<p>Now for your other question about why the men don’t talk to you. I suspect that the ones you are meeting are a bit introverted and have a hard time meeting new people. Not all men in engineering are that way but over the years interviewing scholarship candidates, I have noticed that the women tend to be more outgoing than the average male engineering student. By the end of 4 years in college that can all change though so keep trying to talk to them.</p>

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<p>I know op didn’t mention pretty. I was trying to say that Bouncer’s comment was “crazy talk”. Not successful. I’m the bad guy. Oh well. </p>

<p>I felt creepy because it seems creepy to me, to judge a young girls appearance, but I see you added your picture on purpose, so now I don’t feel creepy. </p>

<p>I mentioned son is black because it is another under-represented group in engineering, and I wonder if that contributes to his feeling of being excluded. </p>

<p>I mentioned pictures because once people see you, it has the potential to introduce more bias. Most folks have picures? I had not noticed that. Maybe it’s part of the “new” CC.</p>

<p>I am quite old. Perhaps I am way off base here, and I’m glad. I apologize, and will stop here. </p>

<p>Best wishes!</p>

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<p>Oye, this thread is big ball of bumbling awkwardness and confusion.</p>

<p>As a girl in engineering, I have had no problem talking to guys or being “discriminated” because I’m a girl. I mean…you just strike up a conversation…? There’s nothing really special or different about it if you talk to an engineering major or a pre-med student. </p>

<p>LOL I know what Shrinkrap is thinking and I see where the panda fell off the tree of understanding in these posts…</p>

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<p>I attended engineering college 30 years ago. There had been a steep increase in women, and my class had about 25% female. When researching college, I was surprised to find that at many schools it had not changed much. (Heck, the doctor / lawyer female % climbed a lot in that time. Had expected same for engineering). There are some engineering programs with 50/50, but not many. However, the workplace has more women engineers than when I started due to shift toward younger groups. </p>

<p>OP - The guys probably tend to talk to mostly their own group… which you said get split by gender. I was lucky. I can only recall a few negative vibes toward female engineering student. For the most part, the students and profs were friendly and supportive. Hoping you find the same as time goes by. </p>

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<p>Being female helps in undergraduate engineering admissions. At every open house we’ve attended, there has been some proud mention of how that school is doing their best to increase the number of female enrollees.</p>

<p>I don’t think that standards have to be lowered in order for this to happen, because there’s no difference in stats like GPA or SAT scores, but at schools like Caltech and Mudd, a much higher proportion of female applicants are admitted in order to ‘balance’ the class.</p>

<p>Physical appearance has nothing whatsoever to do with selection.</p>

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<p>We attended a recruiting tour at Texas A&M and despite a 7-3 ratio or thereabouts, every single Engineering student that spoke was female. The college is definitely trying to recruit female engineers. Of course, having cute girls tends to attract the male students as well, so it served a dual purpose.</p>

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<p>“It’s actually really frustrating and I try to start conversations when I can but I always feel like they’re thinking ‘Uhhh, why is this stupid girl talking to me?’”. </p>

<p>From you other posts I see you are a freshman. People are still getting to know you. Also, engineering guys tend to be a little more awkward especially as freshman. (I went to engineering school over 20 years ago and I was an older student. We only had about 5-6 women out of 40 students, but I found them to be very welcome.)</p>

<p>Hang in there. If you want to be an engineer, be an engineer.</p>

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<p>My father is an engineer and from what he has said, being any type of minority in engineering increases your chances of being hired for a position in a company greatly (esp. a management role). I would assume the same goes for admissions to colleges and scholarships. I think it ultimately boils down to how you carry yourself - a person who appears to have grown out of their experiences as a minority would be impressive to an employer or admissions officer. </p>

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<p>I see where Shrinkrap is coming from. Back in the day, the director of the Career Office at my grad school recommended that we post our photograph on our resumes, which a lot of folks thought was odd and unnecessary.</p>

<p>Yes, reps from dang near every tech school are blue in the face from constantly blubbering about increasing the ratio of female engineering students. Well, apparently the women aren’t convinced because, sad to say, they are not mobbing the admissions office with applications. At Lake Jr.'s engineering school this fall, reportedly one half of the new female freshmen up and left campus to transfer at the end of the first term. That was disappointing because Lake Jr.'s school is about 25% women and generally gets good marks for creating a very positive learning/living environment for women.</p>