<p>S is a junior, athletic, straight (AFAIK). One perfect LAC fit might be Williams, where a goodly percentage of the students are athletes - then again, he's an independent thinker, so Vassar or Wesleyan might do him better, and maybe he'd stand out more there where not as many are athletes. But esp. at Vassar, what's it like being a (straight) guy on campus? I know there's a strong gay contingent, that's not a problem, and could be an advantage in that it might help his odds with the available female population. I understand that the male/female ratio is about 43/57, much lower on the boy side than most (even with the higher % of girls in most schools, they still are around at worst 48/52, not 43/57). This could also be an advantage in getting in. But what's the deal - is Vassar still considered a "girl's" school (I know it's been coed for 40-ish years)? What's the perception in the workplace/post-school marketplace? Or are the academics sufficiently superior that they overcome any such residual perception? Also, no frats, not even the nonresidential frats like Hamilton - in some respects, this may not be a bad thing. Would like to keep Vassar on the short list with Williams, Hamilton, Wes, maybe Bowdoin. I think Vassar is seeking more athletes generally and boys particularly, based on impressions (and with the 43/57 ratio, they should) but why should such boys be interested in Vassar? How will it be? What's in it for them?</p>
<p>Wow. It has been 40+ years since Vassar went coed. </p>
<p>Think about it, attydad. When were you born? I would guess probably between the late 1950s and late 1960s, maybe even longer ago, if you are an older father. When you were of college age, maybe in the 1980s, didn’t the 1940s seem like ancient times? I know they did to me.</p>
<p>Vassar went coeducational long before our children were even born.</p>
<p>Do you have these issues with Vassar or does your son? My guess is that if your son feels uncomfortable with the idea that Vassar was once all women, he gets it from you. </p>
<p>". . .why should such boys be interested in Vassar? How will it be? What’s in it for them?"</p>
<p>What’s in it for any Vassar student is the opportunity to attend one of the outstanding LACs in our country with a bunch of extraordinarily talented and interesting young people, and the opportunity to get a degree that is respected around the world (whether the graduate is a man or a woman).</p>
<p>My (straight) son attends Vassar. He selected Vassar from a range of very prestigious LACs and Universities. No consideration was given to any of the concerns you raised in your post. He chose Vassar because it afforded him the opportunity to study in a very liberal and inclusive environment. Vassar has no greek life and no core requirements, as such he has taken some amazing classes and feels he’s truly exploring learning for learnings sake (something he had been looking for in a college). He is a music major and has friends that are athletic, gay and everything in between. The idea of Vassar being a “girls school” is antiquated and not prevalent on campus. My sons class is 45/55 as is the 2013 class. Vassar is a school for independent and passionate thinkers and the students there most certainly are! The schools you mention as possibilities for your son, have almost nothing in common with Vassar, with the exception of Wesleyan. You son should visit and spend time at each school and will most likely get a sense, then, which most fits with his idea of where he feels he belongs.</p>
<p>attydad, why so many safeties in your list? Shouldn’t he apply to some heavy hitters?</p>
<p>I don’t think it is wrong for the OP to ask these types of questions about the school. I think the OP is sharing an honest concern and simply asking for feedback from people like me who have children who are students there. Vassar was certainly one of the preeminent women’s colleges in the country before it went co-ed in the late 1960s and I agree with the OP that in some circles this reputation persists and a very small number of people are still unaware that the school is co-ed. The school also has a reputation for being LGT friendly and this is a reputation that I think the school embraces and is proud of. All of that being said, I believe it would be a huge mistake to scratch Vassar off a prospective student’s short list. It’s certainly true that the school is committed to diversity and inclusion in a manner that I think may only be the case at one other LAC --Wesleyan – but there are also a lot of straight kids at the school and any straight young man with an open mind would not feel odd or out of place at the school. My kid is straight and has a lot of straight and gay friends and loves the school. Not everyone is cut out for Vassar – students who would be a better fit in some of the more traditional Northeast LACs like Hamilton that still have frats, for instance – but I think that Vassar is a modern and enlightened place and should definitely be on the short list of students who have the means and the credentials to attend.</p>
<p>ReallyOK, you clearly mean Vassar and Wesleyan in terms of New England/Northeast LACs, correct? There are some similarly enlightened and highly rated LACs in the Midwest and on the West Coast.</p>
<p>Sorry, I’m not an expert, just offering a point of view based on my research and experience with one kid at Vassar and another at a NESCAC school (not Wesleyan). I don’t mean to diminish the commitment to diversity and inclusiveness of any other schools (about which I would readily admit I know very little), but mainly wish to highlight and praise the two LACs in the NE that I know are doing a great job and where the commitment runs deep on campus.</p>
<p>No prob…fyi, Oberlin, Carleton, Grinnell, Kenyon, Macalester, etc and I assume Pomona, Occidental, Whitman, etc are equally to similarly progressive.</p>
<p>finalchild: Most students from the NE want to go to college in the NE. When I was growing up in NYC, my parents told me I had to choose a school in the northeast. With so many available options between Washington, D.C. and Boston, they said I could not make an argument for going far from home. </p>
<p>Also, I agree that Wesleyan and Vassar are very similar- at least from my observations during visits and from my reading. Wesleyan and Vassar are very hipster schools with a lot of students involved in the arts. Other schools, such as Bowdoin and Colby, seem to be very “outdoorsy” and more athletic. Grinnell seems to be very oriented toward community service.</p>
<p>Each of these schools seems to have its own personality. I bet many students would be able to find a niche at any one of these schools and be happy, but some schools are probably a better fit for a particular student than others.</p>
<p>finalchild: You’d probably approve of my daughter’s list of schools. We’re from California, and Californians travel all over for college. To a large degree, students seeking top LACs prefer to remain in their comfort zones. Is the mid west your comfort zone? If so, I urge you to broaden your horizons.</p>
<p>ReallyOK: I thank you and respect you for being very civil, but attydad’s “What’s in it for them?” comment struck a nerve in me. I found it obnoxious and pretentious. I don’t know his son’s stats, but an acceptance to Vassar isn’t a sure thing for the overwhelming majority of applicants. I’ve known kids rejected from Vassar and accepted to Ivies and supposedly higher ranked LACs. Attydad implies that he thinks his son is too good for Vassar. If so, his snobbery is very misplaced. He should learn some humility, or he’s in for a rude awakening when his son applies to college.</p>
<p>nosering, not sure I am following. You were from NY and not allowed to consider outside the Northeast, but now you are in CA and endorsing openness to anywhere in the country.</p>
<p>And kids who want strong LACs want to stay in a comfort zone which means more local? Don’t follow that all? You mean compared to kids looking at universities (where it actually is more likely especially because of cost to stay in-state)?</p>
<p>I do like the Midwest schools, but it’s not my “comfort zone.” I posted what I posted because it wasn’t clear from the poster’s statement whether he meant New England or Northeast or was considering Vassar and Wes the only really progressive LACs, period. His response sort of suggests that he was making his statement broadly (as he professed lack of familiarity with the others). I was only pointing out that there are other progressive LACs and I believe I also included the West Coast.</p>
<p>Sorry if something in there rubbed you the wrong way.</p>
<p>finalchild:</p>
<p>If you enter “Where does your freshman class come from?” into google, you can find an interactive from the Chronicle of Higher Education. Go to the “search by college” section, and plug in various colleges. The only reasonable conclusion is that students from the NE tend to prefer to attend colleges in the NE. </p>
<p>In 2010, over 40% of Stanford’s freshman class was from California. That’s 627 students from California enrolled at Stanford. NY sent more students to Stanford that year than any other state in the NE, and that was only 69 students. But the most well represented state at Harvard that year was California.</p>
<p>If you play around with the interactive, you will see that most people from the northeast stay in the northeast and people from the west coast, particularly California, tend to go all over for college. Illinois (Chicago area?) is also well represented at colleges around the country. More than 25% (158 students) of the freshman class at Vassar in 2010 was from NY. The overwhelming majority of the students at Vassar are from the NE and mid-Atlantic. In 2010, the most represented states outside these boundaries were California, Washington, and Illinois, with 90, 13, and 11 students, respectively.</p>
<p>About 1/3 of Pomona’s students are from California. Outside of California, Illinois (with 29 students) sent more students to Pomona than any other state.</p>
<p>Do you see now why I have concluded that students from the NE (and mid-Atlantic) tend to stay in the NE and mid-Atlantic, whereas Californians tend to be willing to travel far for college?</p>
<p>I grew up in NYC, but moved to California as an adult. My parents, who lived in NYC their entire lives, did not allow me to attend college outside the NE. However, I am allowing my daughter to look at colleges all over the country. Part of the reason is because options for LACs are few in the west, and part is because admission has become so competitive. Contrary to what I had originally thought, applying to colleges in the NE as a Californian is not advantageous. </p>
<p>My daughter has her preferences out of the schools to which she has applied, and she thinks (and I agree) that certain schools would fit her better than others. We now feel it’s up to the colleges to decide where she will attend school. Right now, we are just hoping she did not make a mistake by not applying to more schools.</p>
<p>Good luck to your family.</p>
<p>^^^^That is all certainly interesting, but it has nothing to do with what you initially responded to, or perhaps you misunderstood. The poster was talking about progressive colleges. He didn’t indicate that when he referred to Vassar and Wes that he was limiting himself to naming progressive schools in the NE (although that may have been his intent). I was simply pointing out that there are other progressive LACs considered outstanding in other parts of the country in case he or other readers didn’t know that.</p>
<p>I agree that a lot of New England families/kids stay in New England, partly because New England does have a large number of great schools. But New England per capita also has a high number of top student, and a decent chunk of those do venture outside of New England. We are from New England and my kid has applied to schools from around the country.</p>
<p>Good luck to you.</p>
<p>Frankly, your attitude disgusts me. Vassar’s gender ratio is perfectly in line with most other highly selective LACs, and, really, if your son’s chances of hooking up with the available girls on campus is actually one of your concerns, that’s really sad. I came to Vassar knowing full well that as a queer woman, there were not going to be many options for me, and I was fine with that because I came to Vassar for an education.</p>
<p>The class of 2013 is 45/55 as mentioned before. There really is a balanced mix of athletes and artistic types. The common thread is the non-judgmental independent thinking culture. All activities, sports and artistic, are supported on campus by students, faculty, and the community. I hope you can visit because your son will know immediately if Vassar is for him.</p>
<p>wrong year - the Vassar Class of 2016 is 45/55.</p>
<p>My son is a sophomore at Vassar currently. He’s straight. He has a girlfriend. He has a lot of straight male friends and also gay friends of both genders. He’s getting a fantastic education (he has great things to say about virtually every teacher he has). I get the impression that the students get along with each other pretty phenomenally well and that the attitude of tolerance is not a made up “politically correct” posturing but a true reflection of the marvelous study body Vassar selects and the culture of the college in general. </p>
<p>I’m just so happy he made the choice to go to Vassar.</p>
<p>averagesnarker: Seriously?</p>
<p>I was drawn to this thread because I have a son who sounds similar to attydad’s son, and I have the same questions (and, I suppose, “attitude”) that he has. Our attitudes “disgust[]” you? How very accepting and broad-minded of you. Surely you understand that going to college and attaining that education you reference as being so important to you entails much, much more than simply attending classes and listening to enlightened professors and classmates. A college experience includes an entire community of people, which is even more important in a small, fairly isolated campus environment such as that offered by Vassar. At 18-19 years old, a young adult is seeking a good fit, both academically AND socially, in a (hopefully) accepting community of peers. </p>
<p>And yes, the truth is that Vassar has a reputation as drawing a significant gay male student population, which naturally will factor into a straight male’s decision when the campus in question is smaller than many high schools. I don’t know if that reputation is based in fact or fiction, but it is most definitely out there. To shock and “disgust” you even further, indeed many 18-19 year old straight men are interested in meeting, dating and perhaps even falling in love (OMG!!) with a young lady during their college years. It is perfectly natural for an athletic, straight male to wonder if he will fit in with the other students at Vassar given its reputation. Hence, attydad’s honest and open question on this subject. </p>
<p>The very fact that attydad’s – and my – son are interested in Vassar despite this reputation should tell you all that you need to know about how accepting and openminded OUR sons are. Frankly, it is YOUR attitude that is disgusting and sheltered. I do hope that you do not represent the attitude of Vassar as a whole. If so, the school will be stricken forthright from my son’s list. I do not want him attending school with a militant, hatemongering group of people such as yourself, obviously hell-bent on becoming “disgusted” with the “attitudes” of people who might think just a little bit differently than they do. How disappointing. My son and I were under the impression, and were drawn to the idea, that Vassar was just the opposite: welcoming and accepting of ALL kinds of people, not just people like YOU.</p>
<p>Thankfully, some of the other posters’ replies have ameliorated your comments and renewed my faith in the possibilities offered by Vassar for my straight, athletic, intelligent son. I can only pray that, wherever he chooses to go, he is spared an encounter with a harshly judgmental person like you.</p>
<p>We visited Vassar recently. I came back with the impression that it is very “liberal”, not in the sense of socially liberal but liberal in the true sense of liberal arts education. And the focus seemed to be more on arts and film rather than science.</p>
<p>Am I right in saying that the focus is more towards arts rather than science in Vassar?</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments.</p>
<p>Hey OP everything you raised is of no real concern. Vassar is the best and you should apply. But if you want a real look at the “student body” just know that people like averagesnarker constitute a huge portion. Basically people who will be offended by your maleness and ignorance, proceed by stating how you would never understand because you arent gay or a minornity, and then peg you as “not enlightened” while they walk away glowing with pride at educating another mindless drone. </p>
<p>These people are quite vocal and as you have witnessed arent afraid to take the time to chastise you for being “offensive” If you are for that, then no worries. If not, then no worries either, just ignore them lol.</p>
<p>Tamtiger, I don’t think your impression of Vassar as a school focused on liberal arts (I assume here you mean things like humanities and film) as opposed to sciences/math is quite accurate. Certainly the humanities and arts play a big role at Vassar and many alums in these fields have gone on to do great things. At the same time, school has many strong and successful programs in the sciences and it’s biggest building project right now is a multi-million dollar integrated science facility. I think you would find that Vassar’s balance between humanities, social sciences & sciences/math is about the same as you would find at many other liberal arts colleges like Williams, Amherst, Hamilton, Pomona, Wesleyan etc. I’m sure someone will quibble with this assertion, but I believe it to be true at least at a high level. Of course, there are some schools like Harvey Mudd & Swarthmore that have much more focused programs in engineering, math and the sciences that I would not compare to Vassar in this regard, but I think they are outliers.</p>