Here’s what I’m struggling with, and I understand this is a great “problem” to have: My child is a rising senior and has amazing stats. Top 5 in the class at a large, competitive public high school. SAT: 800 M 800 V 770 W. ACT 35. Varsity athlete. Great extracurriculars. Etc. etc. Not sure of a major yet, so wants to go somewhere with lots of options. Obviously, has a really good shot at a school like HYPS or one of the best LACs, and is planning to apply to several of those schools. BUT we also understand that schools like that are a reach for anyone. Sure, my kid has a better chance than most of getting into Harvard, but that doesn’t mean Harvard is a safety. So what are some match/safety schools to think about?
What kind of school? (location/size). and what state or residence? Does he need financial aid?
Generally, Match Michigan, Tufts, Johns Hopkins?
Safety, really need more info on residence.
The hardest thing to accept is that there are thousands of kids like yours and others with lower stats that will get accepted over him or her.
The problem with safeties is that if you dip too low you run the risk, while small, that the application won’t be taken seriously and summarily rejected.
Use your state school as the doomsday safety. Where do you live?
Another thing that is hard for a lot of students and parents to understand is that on average the schools in top 25 universities and top 25 colleges have pretty similar students. It is very common for students to get in some but not others no matter where a school is in rankings.
You mentioned top LACs, hard group to pin down. Imagine applying to schools where the class is only 500 students and they need kids for teams, the band, theater and whatever else goes on other than academics. Worse is that there is even less difference from #1 to #25 than in the universities in terms of selectivity. Kids and parents that think Colgate is a lock over Williams are in for a tough time.
The other thing they don’t tell you is that ECs while nice are easily duplicated, so it has to be so strong and so needed by the school that it matters.
With this student you have to spread risk over the whole group of top schools and be flexible over location, size and religious affiliation.
I would also sprinkle in a few schools outside the top 25 for good measure like University of Rochester, Case Western…schools with less application traffic.
You may think he has a better chance than most to get into HYPS but he likely does not have a better chance than most applicants. Not better than the viable ones, at least. It is hard to find ‘match’ for high stats kids, yes, because when admit rates are low they can’t take everyone eligible.
So he can have a top heavy list if he has decided on rock hard safety. Usually a couple are good so there is a choice. Where I live we have a range of good UC colleges so those will work for instate students. Some will look for privates where you would get admitted and possibly good merit, like Tulane, Case Western, even USC although the merit is competitive. Many universities have more opportunities than even a top student can take advantage of. If he is interested in LACs, even down the list are still very good ones. Be sure there is interest shown at the match schools that consider that in admissions.
I suggest he get a Fiske Guide and find colleges that interest him. Happy hunting.
LACs outside the top 10-15 on USNews would be matches, but remember that matches are not gaurantees, but more like a 50/50 shot. If he has any LACs on his list regardless of selectivity, make sure he shows demonstrated interest. The match/safety schools especially want to feel the love!
Yeah, certainly no one should ever view a school with a single digit acceptance rate as a match, but saying that a kid with this kind of qualifications (not just his test scores, but his class rank, ECs, varsity athlete, etc) doesn’t have a “better chance than most applicants at HYPS” is really pushing it way too far.
Assuming he can interview without coming across like Hannibal Lector, put together an application that doesn’t read like the Unabomber’s manifesto, and has no outstanding warrants for violent felonies, he almost certainly has at least twice as much chance as the average applicant at any of the elite schools.
Of course, that doesn’t make HYPS or any schools with acceptance rates below 20% into matches, but let’s not go overboard on the “scores don’t guarantee acceptance” bandwagon. He’s in the 99.9th percentile (approximately the top 1600 of SAT takers) - even a jaded Ivy League admissions officer might notice that.
^There are plenty of kids with those kind of test scores and every year on CC you’ll see many of those kids getting rejected from Ivies. Being a varsity high school athlete will only carry weight at Ivies and the like if you are a recruitable athlete. The vast majority of the kids I personally know who got into HYPS, with OR without the grades and test scores, had a hook of some kind - a development case, generations of wealthy family alums, an impact athlete, someone who is at a national or international level in some area like music, art, debate, etc.
It would really help to know more about what type of campus s/he would be interested in- even the Ivies are a spectrum- more laid back, more sporty, more intellectual, more artsy, more outdoorsy, more urban, more mountainous etc.? Will s/he be able to visit quite a variety of schools to get a clear picture of top choices in the super selective category and also in the more match type selective schools? Are there FA considerations- a need for need based aid or merit aid?
Apologies for my inherent sexism - I should not have assumed your kid was male.
Even at the most elite institutions in the country, SATs > 2300 have an overall acceptance rate measurably higher than SATs between 2200-2300, and so on down the line…there is just no way these schools hit the crazy numbers they have with SOME tendency to use test scores as a key evaluation tool.
Believing that in no way contradicts the fact that kids with 2400s sometimes get rejected by these schools, or that hooks and other factors don’t play a big part in their admission decisions.
Back to the original question - I think any school with an admit rate over 30% could reasonably be considered a match for your kid, based on what you have posted here.
I know a few kids who had similar high stats and ended up at Johns Hopkins after not getting into any of the Ivies so that might be one to add to your list. Not that it is a match or safety. Someone else mentioned University of Rochester and Case Western. More selective but possibly in the match realm depending on where you live: Rice, Vanderbilt (they are rumored to like high scores), Emory. Tufts and Wash U seem to have a sixth sense about kids applying to them as “safeties” so if you go that route, demonstrated interest helps
As long as the school isn’t HYMPS caliber, I can imagine the school would be a match. Make the state school, any other schools in-state, and any other schools of interest with a 50+% admissions rate a safety.
Schools such as HYPS are reaches for virtually everyone. The schools can fill up many times over with worthy high stat, high credentialed candidates. Many top applicants I know of apply to a school like UMichigan which is rolling so they have an acceptance by December. Some schools such as WashU, Hopkins, Tufts etc. should be considered as well.
You do what a lot of people do - group all the Ivies together as one, they are not. Each school has it’s own personality, as do most other colleges. Forget about the “name” of the school and look for what the school offers in reference to what your child wants from a college. That will open up many different and more appropriate options than just saying “HYPS.” Is your child a math/science person? Or technical? A geek? Creative? Artistic? Does he/she want large, small, city, rural, suburban, Greek life, small classes, numerous required courses? All these will help determine which schools are a better match than just numbers.
As I have said many times here, my daughter was admitted to Yale and wait listed at Northwestern. She eventually was admitted to NU and that is where she went, loved it, and never looked back. She also hated Harvard and Dartmouth when we toured. Princeton has never taken a student from our town and even though she could have gotten in through serious connections, she figured there was a reason for our town’s kids to be summarily rejected so she wasn’t interested in pursuing that.
Look for the right fit and the reaches, matches, and safeties will present themselves.
Good luck!
How much can your family afford to pay?
How much would you like to limit your costs to?
For decent to excellent safety options, pop over to the Financial Aid Forum, and read through the threads pinned at the top. Follow the links to lists of guaranteed merit aid (kid has the grades and test scores and applies on time, kid gets in with that much money), and check out the information on competitive merit aid (kid might not get all that money, but is pretty certain of getting in). For academic if not financial safeties, check the thread on Auto-Admissions institutions that is pinned near the top of the Admissions Forum.
If you are looking for options for a female student, work through the list at http://womenscolleges.org/ The current stats make Barnard, Bryn Mawr, Mt. Holyoke, Smith, and Wellesley very likely options, and could pull in significant merit aid at the next tier down.
My son has a 2400 SAT in one sitting and other stellar creds, but got accepted by only one of the HYPSM, plus admits and rejects by a mixed bag of other ivies and their peers. But he made sure he has a super safety: Rutgers.
How many schools other than Rutgers was he accepted to and how many rejections?
True safeties would be McGill University and University of Toronto in Canada. Both amazing schools in amazing cities. They admit by the numbers only. They also cost less than US privates and out of state publics.
“has a really good shot at a school like HYPS”
“Sure, my kid has a better chance than most of getting into Harvard”
“but saying that a kid with this kind of qualifications (not just his test scores, but his class rank, ECs, varsity athlete, etc) doesn’t have a “better chance than most applicants at HYPS” is really pushing it way too far.”
Nope.
OP, you and your child need to really dig into the realities, starting with: it"s not all about stats and what you consider great ECs may be less than what the competition brings.
The key is the app itself. This is more than a resume and “just answer the questions.” Same applies to the Most Competitive schools as to the Highly Competitive. Dig into what the colleges themselves say about their values and what they look for.
I know, I’m a broken record on this.
Do the learning, then start visiting a range, a big U and a nice LAC. City location and non-city. If he might be into STEM, consider the research strengths and opps. If it could be something else, consider the U’s related programs. Getting names of schools, pot-shot, based on stats says little about a true match.
He has 6 or 7 accepts, and an equal number of rejects. He is going to the only accept of HYPSM.
OP, my son had similar stats. He too was unsure of a major as a rising senior. He used the summer before senior year to learn about different careers. He also chose a rigorous senior schedule to explore where his interests might lie.
His “matches” would also be “reaches”, but we chose to focus on his likes/dislikes and future goals, as opposed to trying to get into the best ranked or prestigious school.
As BatesParent2019 said, there are thousands of kids like ours. That doesn’t take away from their accomplishments, but it’s good to keep this in mind throughout the college selection process. It’s so easy to fall into the trap of comparing our ‘high stat kid(s)’ with other ‘high stat kids’.
I truly believe in running one’s own race, but acknowledge that we do not live in a vacuum. We don’t want to limit our children’s opportunities. We often get conflicting messages. I find it good to remember that, as with a lot of things in life, it’s a fine balancing act. I guess, “long term happiness” is our mantra.
So after all my rambling, I would suggest you really think about your child. What does he/she like and dislike? At what kind of environment do you see him/her thriving? What makes sense for your family?..financially and expectation-wise.
The people on CC are very willing to offer their knowledge and experience, but I think you’ll need to share more about your child to get meaningful suggestions. Good luck!