Berkeley #1 for PhD programs, Stanford #1 for Professional schools

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Here's yet another ranking that simply takes a composite of all the current USNWR program rankings. From a Berkeley grad publication. Of course this for graduate programs (and was limited to currently ranked areas), so start the debate about relevance to undergrad. Enjoy!</p>

<p>Total PhD Program Rank
1 University of California-Berkeley
2 Stanford
3 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
4 Harvard University
5 Princeton University
6 Yale University
7 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
8 Columbia University
9 University of Wisconsin-Madison
9 Cornell University
11 University of California-Los Angeles
12 University of Chicago
13 University of Texas-Austin
14 University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign
15 University of California-San Diego</p>

<p>Professional School Ranking
1 Stanford
2 University of California-Berkeley
3 Harvard University
4 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
5 Northwestern University
6 Columbia University
7 University of Texas-Austin
8 Duke University
9 New York University
10 University of Wisconsin-Madison
10 University of California-Los Angeles
12 University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign
13 University of Virginia
14 University of Southern California
15 Indiana University-Bloomington</p>

<p>source:
<a href="http://www.grad.berkeley.edu/publications/pdf/usnews_rankings_2006.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.grad.berkeley.edu/publications/pdf/usnews_rankings_2006.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

2

<p>Heh, interesting. Of course, Stanford and Berkeley nipping at each other's heels again...</p>

3

<p>I think that rating overall graduate programs isn't as meaningful as rating overall undergraduate programs because graduate programs are very insular and specialized. I find it strange (coincidental! hehe) that this Berkeley-based compilation does not include Medical schools in its professional schools section. That certainly helps Cal and hurts Harvard. At any rate, it is always fun to speculate. I would group universities rather than rank them:</p>

<p>PhD programs:
Group I
CalTech (only for the Sciences)
Harvard University
MIT (only for the Sciences, Economics and Political Science)
Stanford University
University of California-Berkeley</p>

<p>Group II
Columbia University
Cornell University
Princeton University
University of California-Los Angeles
University of Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Yale University</p>

<p>Group III
Duke University
New York University
Northwestern University
University of California-San Diego
University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Pennsylvania
University of Texas-Austin</p>

<p>PROFESSIONAL PROGRAMS
Group I
Harvard University
Stanford University </p>

<p>Group II
Columbia University
Cornell University
Duke University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (limited to Business and Engineering)
University of California-Berkeley
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Pennsylvania</p>

<p>Group III
New York University
Northwestern University
University of California-Los Angeles
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Southern California
University of Texas-Austin
University of Virginia
Yale University</p>

<p>I am sure I am missing a couple here and there, but by and large, it is pretty accurate.</p>

4

<p>Alexandre,</p>

<p>I'd put engineering as PhD programs, not professional (biz/law/med) and I'd move NYU, Yale, and Northwestern into group II (or at least not in the same group as Texas or USC...etc). :)</p>

5

<p>Sam, like I said, it really is pointless to rate overal graduate programs because there are such wide fluctuations. For example, NYU's Law school is phenomenal...one of the top 7 in the land. However, NYU's other graduate professional programs aren't quite as strong. Sure, Stern ranked among the top 20 and its medical school ranked among the top 30, but that's about it. Northwestern's Kellogg, as you have seen me argue ad-nauseum, is one of the top 3 or 4 in the nation. Anybody seriously considering an MBA would dream of attending Kellogg. And Northwestern's Law school is also very good. But its Medical and Engineering programs are not as elite. Yale's law school is incredble, and its medical school is also excellent, but its MBA program is only so-so and its Engineering program is mediocre. </p>

<p>Of course, if we remove Engineering from Professional, then I would remove USC and UT-Austin from Group III.</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
PROFESSIONAL PROGRAMS
Group I
Harvard University
Stanford University </p>

<p>Group II
Columbia University
Cornell University
Duke University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (limited to Business and Engineering)
University of California-Berkeley
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Pennsylvania</p>

<p>Group III
New York University
Northwestern University
University of California-Los Angeles
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Southern California
University of Texas-Austin
University of Virginia
Yale University

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yale professional schools are Tier III, while Michigan and Cornell are Tier II? </p>

<p>
[quote]
Yale's law school is incredble, and its medical school is also excellent, but its MBA program is only so-so and its Engineering program is mediocre.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yale's Law School is THE no. 1 Law School in the country. Yale's med school is also top tier and their SOM (MBA) is a Top 15 program. I'm sorry, but Yale wipes the floor with Michigan.</p>

<p>I see you also have Cornell ranked in Tier II, yet every major professional program (Med, MBA, Law) ranks below Yale (in fact, Cornell's medical, law or business schools fail to break the Top 10 in any of the USNWR rankings:</p>

<p>Let's look at it head-to-head (USNWR): </p>

<p>Medicine
Yale: 9
Michigan: 11
Cornell: 15</p>

<p>Law
Yale: 1
Michigan: 8
Cornell: 13</p>

<p>Business
Yale: 15
Michigan: 11
Cornell: 16</p>

<p>Yale beats Cornell in every major professional program (Med, Law, MBA) so please explain how in the world you justify giving Cornell a Tier II ranking and then demoting Yale to Tier III?</p>

<p>Let's see, could it be that Cornell and Michigan alums are a tad biased?</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
Anybody seriously considering an MBA would dream of attending Kellogg.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Anybody seriously considering an MBA would dream of attending HBS, Stanford or Wharton.</p>

8

<p>How do Yale's professional programs wide the floor with Michigan? LOL!!!</p>

<p>Business: Michigan #5,#11, Cornell #13, #15, Yale #19, #15
Education: Michigan #9, Cornell #39, Yale N/A
Engineering: Michigan #6, Cornell #11, Yale #39
Law: Yale #1, Michigan #8, Cornell #13
Medicine: Yale #9, Michigan #11 (those two programs exhange lead annually), Cornell #15
Public Affairs: Michigan #8, Cornell #35, Yale N/A</p>

9

<p>Hey Alex, why not cherry pick the rankings that suit your needs? Oh wait, you just did...</p>

<p>Let's take a UNIFORM standard for a moment (USNWR) -- even though I have my own issues with USNWR -- and let's tally the rankings:</p>

<p>MED / LAW / BUSINESS (the default big-three professional grad programs)</p>

<p>Yale:
Top 5: (1 out of 3)
Top 10: (2 out of 3)
Top 15: (3 out of 3)</p>

<p>Michigan:
Top 5: (0 out of 3)
Top 10: (1 out of 3)
Top 15: (3 out of 3)</p>

<p>Cornell:
Top 5: (0 out of 3)
Top 10: (0 out of 3)
Top 15: (2 out of 3)</p>

<p>Yale wins.</p>

<p>...oh btw, you still haven't defended Cornell very well...</p>

10

<p>Alexandre, I would say engineering is a graduate program, not professional. But otherwise, I like your groupings.</p>

11

<p>The prestige, Michigan's Law and MBA programs are considered top 5 (according to most major rankings and professional polls) and its Medical school top 10. Yale's Law school is considered top 5, its Medical school top 10 and MBA program is generally ranked out of the top 15. If you chose to leave other professional programs out, they are pretty even, but Engineering is a major professional program.</p>

12

<p>Yes, cherry picking is problematic, but so is NOT cherry-picking. </p>

<p>If you do an aggregate, you give a big advantage to schools (like Michigan) which have programs in such a vast variety of fields. Nursing AND social work AND medicine AND....you get the picture. It ends up making excellent schools with excellent programs--but a smaller number of them--look unfairly inferior. </p>

<p>There is something to be said for being able to excel in so many fields, but it makes the comparisons tricky.</p>

<p>Whatever the complaints about this particular version of ranking, I think most academics wouldn't quibble with Berkeley being on top for PhD programs.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
PhD programs:
Group I
CalTech (only for the Sciences)
Harvard University
MIT (only for the Sciences, Economics and Political Science)
Stanford University
University of California-Berkeley</p>

<p>Group II
Columbia University
Cornell University
Princeton University
University of California-Los Angeles
University of Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Wisconsin-Madison</p>

<p>Group III
Duke University
New York University
Northwestern University
University of California-San Diego
University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Pennsylvania
University of Texas-Austin

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I find it interesting that Alexandre's PhD program list doesn't include Yale at all. Surely he doesn't believe that Yale's PhD programs are not among the top in the country (the list originally posted had them at 6th, which seems fair, and would place them solidly in Alexandre's 2nd tier)</p>

14

<p>Are they any fun, all these ranking Bullshi*t?</p>

15

<p>I did in fact forget to inlude Yale's PhD programs in Group II. I have rectified the problem.</p>

16

<p>I'd like to see this ranking done by number of top rated programs over number of total programs. I think some very large schools are doing unduly well, here.</p>

17

<p>Why shouldn't engineering be classified as a professional program? Call me old-fashioned, but there was a time you have to pass a standard exam and be certified to put the title P.E. on your name card.</p>

<p>By the same token, what makes "business" a professional program?</p>

18

<p>Isn't breadth part of overall strength? It's a lot easier to be good at a few things than to be good in many things.</p>

19

<p>Ahhhh. A ranking I can fully endorse. :)</p>

20

<p>barrons:</p>

<p>Were you responding to what I said? I can't tell.</p>

<p>Actually, I find ranking a school based on certain factors for undergrad to be useful, but ranking schools based on the overall strength of grad programs to be much less so. What counts with grad school is what areas are your areas of interest (and, more importantly, sub-areas), whom you want to work with, and what other faculty has done in that sub-area or what supporting work has been done ... and, of course, what sort of research is currently going on.</p>

<p>Now, for state legislatures and, I'm sure, some businesses, an overall ranking can be useful, and surely they'll look at the overall excellence of the breadth of offerings. Or maybe a business might look at excellence across a range of offerings in their fields.</p>

<p>My interest in excellence as a percentage of programs offered has to do with both simple curiousity and some interest in bleed over to undergrad programs (debatable, but possible).</p>