<p>Just to be clear - the UC requirement is for a full high school year of visual or performing art.</p>
<p>From UCIrvine's website:</p>
<p>
[quote]
f l Visual and Performing Arts (VPA) 1 year required
A single yearlong approved arts course from a single VPA discipline: dance, drama/theater, music or visual art
[/quote]
</p>
<p>A CC semester course may or may not meet the requirement.</p>
<p>A one semester CC course called "The History of Rock and Roll" did it for my son. Some kids took it online through the CC. Others took Art History, History of Jazz, and other one semester offerings that fulfilled the UC VPA requirement. Last year there was a UC Davis adcom on the UC Davis forum who would answer queries like this one and make suggestions.</p>
<p>^^It might even be possible to enroll in, and take, an online course from a California community college, even living OOS. Cost shouldn't be prohibitive either. That might be a way around all this. But you'd want to be enrolling as a high school student, not sure if they would let you do that OOS. Anyway just an idea.</p>
<p>You do not HAVE to qualify by completing the A-G course pattern if you qualify by examination. For non-Californians, that essentially means averaging 710 on each component of a single-sitting SAT I and any two SAT IIs (i.e., five scores adding up to 3550, with all the SAT I scores being from a single test date), or a 32 on the ACT with writing. That doesn't get you admitted, of course, but it does get you eligible for admission without meeting the year-of-art requirement. Read the UC website carefully.</p>
<p>I was trying to remember why I wasn't worried about this when my kid applied to Berkeley two years ago, with only one quarter of classroom art in high school. That's why.</p>
<p>JHS--Wow--you're exactly right, as I read the site more carefully! Interesting that the Admissions office person I talked to did not mention this possibility. So while my S would be eligible to apply based on scores alone, it sounds like they like kids to have those A-G courses. The Admissions person did say that a CC semester-long class in an art/music class would do the trick. He may do the extra class to be on the safe side, but good to know he doesn't absolutely have to. Thanks much to all here--you were more helpful than the office (and this after 30 + minutes of being on hold!)</p>
<p>^Wow, I was really worried and reading the beginning of this thread I was about to close it and just not apply to UCLA anymore</p>
<p>But JHS, your post was a lifesaver! I had no idea I didn't have to fulfill all the requirements if my test scores were high enough! Thank you</p>
<p>In most cases, the UC's will not allow students to finish up an A-G requirement during the summer AFTER they've graduated. While it is fine for them to be in progress during senior year, they usually need to be finished by the time the final transcript is sent to the UC's in June.</p>
<p>In terms of online courses, the UC's have recently tightened up which online courses they will accept to meet the A-G requirements. Many online programs that met UC a-g courses in the past now are not acceptable. If you're going to go that route, make sure to verify that the UC system has approved the program AND the course as a means of meeting a-g requirements.</p>
<p>If you're considering the CC route, I would have the exact course, the credit for it, and the name of the college in hand when you call to verify that it will meet their VPA requirements. They are pretty exacting about the number of hours, and the coursework itself. </p>
<p>In general with the UC's, don't assume. Verify.</p>
<p>Actually, scratch the online course entirely. Just checked this year's UC counselor manual, and under their new online policy the VPA requirement can NOT be met online any longer.</p>
<p>Thanks very much Carolyn. I'm wondering how such a verification can actually take place. When I asked the person in the office about which classes would meet their requirements, she said to look at their "assist" page and try to match one of their classes with something here. Is it sufficient to take down the name and date/time of call of whoever I talk to who gives me the okay, or should we send an e-mail, hoping to get a written okay? It seem to me all they'll say is "That sounds like it'll meet our requirements, please note it in on your application and we'll consider the whole package." In other words, noncommital. Personally, I want to just go the test score eligibility route, but I think my son will want to do the extra class to be on the safe side. I appreciate your thoughts and will verify to the extent possible.</p>
<p>Interestingly, the Berkeley rep told me that if my son really wanted to go there, he should try for another UC school first, or a California CC, then transfer into Berkeley. I responded by telling her that actually my DH and I were rooting for UVA!! The impression I got from this small experience is that they aren't going to make anything easy.</p>
<p>I also want to clarify the difference between being ELIGIBLE to apply and actually BEING ADMITTED. There is often a lot of misunderstanding about the difference.</p>
<p>Yes, you can be ELIGIBLE TO APPLY if you meet certain test scores. But "eligible to apply" merely means that you can submit an application. It does not mean that you will be admitted.</p>
<p>In considering your application, even if you are eligible to apply based on your test scores, the UC readers will still look carefully at whether or not you've met those A-G requirements and your performance in them into consideration when deciding whether or not to admit you. </p>
<p>An example: A student with a 2.5 GPA would be eligible to APPLY if he had test scores which met the minimum. But, his grades and coursework would still be considered in deciding whether to admit him. </p>
<p>Another example: A student who has not completed the A-G requirements, but is eligible to APPLY based on test scores. The readers would still consider that the A-G requirements had not been met in making the admissions decision. </p>
<p>At a highly competitive institution like UC Berkeley, it would be wise to make every effort possible to meet AND exceed those A-G requirements in order to have a shot of admission. This is especially true for students applying from out of state.</p>
<p>Mom in Virginia, As you've probably already noticed, the "assist" page is for California Community Colleges. My advice would be to look at which California Community colleges have Transfer Agreement Guarantees with UC Berkeley, and then match up some of the art classes at those schools with those offered by your local community college (or a four year college if he could enroll there). Then, I'd suggest that you and your son make an appointment with the local college's academic advising office and perhaps the specific department (art, music, etc.) to discuss how the two line up. I would also ask if they would be willing to include a course description with the transcript they'll send. I might even suggest sending the actual course syllabus with the transcript. This might be overkill, but better overkill than disappointment after its too late to change course.</p>
<p>The other thing I would strongly encourage you to consider is the cost of attending UC Berkeley as an out of state student. It pretty much lines up with what you would pay for many private universities. There is absolutely NO CHANCE of being declared "instate" for tuition purposes after you enroll, so that is the price you'll pay for four years (actually, assume a 5 to 7% increase each year, perhaps more). Financial aid for out of state students is somewhat limited at the UC's -- out of state students often do not have their full need met (The UC's don't guarantee to meet full need for anyone). So, if money is an issue, I would consider the financial side of things very carefully before going forward with rushing to meet that VPA requirement.</p>
<p>Carolyn--okay, good to know, no on-line. I'm guessing if he could take a night class at a local university that looks better than taking one at a CC?</p>
<p>Carolyn--we cross-posted on the last one. THanks for all the advice. My DS is quite intrigued by the notion of Berkeley. While cost is not really an issue for us (very fortunately), my practical (and conservative) DH thinks this is a crazy idea. We'll see what happens. Not being admitted wouldn't be the end of the world...</p>
<p>I don't think it will really matter from the perspective of meeting the VPA requirement. I just mentioned it as another possibility, in case you can't fit it in schedule-wise at the community college.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I suspect that if you have to be lacking one of the A-G requirements, the VPA one might be the least damaging from a UC readers perspective. Since it sounds like your son has exceeded some of the other A-G requirements, and really taken a very rigorous high school curriculum, I would not worry too much if the VPA just can't be met.</p>
<p>Finally, you might want to have your son's school counselor call or email UC Berkeley admissions for you. Sometimes counselors are able to "read between the lines" and get a fuller picture of how a student might viewed from admissions offices. </p>
<p>And, just mentioned the financial side of things, because I have encountered a lot of out of state families who either didn't understand the full cost for out of state attendance, or thought their kid could get instate tuition after the first year. It sounds like you guys are in good shape, so no worries. If Berkeley does make it to the final list of contenders next Spring, however, I would encourage you to look very closely at how the California state budget crisis is and will affect programs there. UC Berkeley has already announced some belt-tightening measures. I personally would not turn down UVA for Berkeley, but that's just me.</p>
<p>Best of luck to your son!</p>
<p>Mom in VA, DH and I are in a situation quite similar to yours as to OOS attendance at Cal...only my daughter is actually a freshman! I don't want to discourage you at all--DD is VERY happy there--but, you may be interested to know that she still does not know today how many of her CC classes' and University classes' credits will transfer to Cal. It sounds crazy, I know, but I called in early September and was told she wouldn't know until the end of October and DD went to the admissions office Thursday and was told, again, that her accepted credits would be posted by the end of the month. Given that this is the case with attending students, it's hard to believe they'd even speculate about fulfillment via an OOS CC or Univ. with an applicant IF they have a preference for those who have completed the A-G requirements regardless of test scores. (It makes it difficult to plan class schedules when one doesn't know whether the maths already taken fulfill requirements....)</p>
<p>Schmoomcgoo:</p>
<p>It's these kinds of situations that make some parents question whether the large flagship U is the best option for their student. It's not a good fit for some kinds of people and we hope the bureaucracy of it doesn't get worse with the state's budget cuts.</p>
<p>Wow--lots of food for thought--thanks much to all. Carolyn, we will definitely talk to the counselor. Schm--very good to know, as my son's taken a lot of advanced math in particular and it would stun him to not get credit for it...fascinating. My husband will be delighted with this insight, my son, not so much!</p>
<p>Getting credit at UCSD and UCLA for my D's HS AP classes was pretty straightforward. It can vary with the particlar school within the UC (i.e. School of Engineering) and by major but these are usually posted on the website. For some clases, for example math, they'll typically award credit for a particular score (ex: getting a 5 on the AP Calc AB or BC) and then the students skips to the next level. Alternatively, they sometimes test to determine placement. If your S has taken a ton of math and is going to pursue a major requiring more math, then I'm sure he'll get credit for what he's done - they don't want to put him in a class that would be redundant.</p>
<p>Since both of my Ds are/were in the school of engineering at their respective Universities as CS majors, the AP credits really didn't get them out of many classes although it starts them at a higher rank, i.e. my D started with Sophomore standing and had Junior standing at the end of her first year. About the only value to this is sometimes in class/dorm signup. students in some other majors will be able to obviate more courses due to the APs. They were able to skip out of some classes due to APs though. </p>
<p>If your S has a pretty good idea of his major then he should go to UCB's website and see if he can find the list of AP credits for the particular major.</p>
<p>My subjective, not-enough-data-points experience is that UC Berkeley is willing to admit out-of-state students who are eligible to apply based on their test scores notwithstanding their failure to meet the A-G standards. My son and three of his friends were accepted at Berkeley. Only one of them had met the art requirement, and she was offered admission for January, not September.</p>
<p>I would add that, for at least two of the three kids admitted without a year of high school art-type class, their ECs (dance, extensive participation in drama club, significant studio art, editorship of school literary magazine) might well have helped them meet any kind of informal well-roundedness standard. But strict adherence to the A-G curriculum clearly was not a de facto requirement. (I AM talking about strong candidates, here. The other colleges to which they were admitted included Brown, Penn, Chicago, Barnard.)</p>
<p>Okay, thanks JHS. Lots to think about here which we'll do more of after the first Early Action application is in!</p>