<p>Our son was accepted to Berkeley and Cornell. He attends private school and is a conscientious student, but so far has not had to work too hard for his grades, especially science and math. He is undecided about his eventual major/career (at Berkeley, he was admitted to Mech. Engin, but he is not even sure about engineering although it would be a natural fit for him). Other than going out to eat or to the movies with a few friends, he has a quiet social life. </p>
<p>What school should he choose? Ive heard the negatives about Berkeley (overcrowded classes, poor professors, cut throat competition and bell curve grading means a number of students will flunk out) and Cornell (lots of pressure, poor quality of life, isolated town). Dont get me wrong we want him to attend a good program, work hard and learn a lot, but not at the risk of being miserable or in academic trouble. He was also accepted to Wash U, JHU and UCLA - are any of these better choices for him? Thanks in advance for your input.</p>
<p>I think in your son's situation it would be a bad choice to attend UCLA or UCB because it sounds like it wouldn't be a fit in terms of personality, as well as the fact that if he wanted to change majors I'm pretty sure it'll be a lot harder and will take more time to graduate at these schools because of the fact that they are overcrowded and getting a class you need maybe impossible</p>
<p>I'd make a decision between cornell or wash u. i think if your son wants a quiet social life cornell and wash u would be the best choice. </p>
<p>however if money is an issue than just pick berkeley.</p>
<p>I think all engineering students are miserable at least some of the time no matter where they are. I have not visited the Berkeley campus. All I can say is that I think very highly of Cornell. A quiet intellectual would be comfortable at Cornell. I am going to vist the Johnson Museum tomorrow on the Cornell campus to see an exhibition of Rembrandt etchings (prints). I always visit the observation area on the top floor to look out over the countryside.</p>
<p>i'd seriously say if he's white, send him to cornell.
if he's asian, send him to berkeley.</p>
<p>berkeley is filled with asians and he might not fit in there.</p>
<p>^^ Worst advice EVER.</p>
<p>We are Asian but whatever school he chooses, there will be enough Asians to make him feel comfortable. My son is reasonably smart and competent but at the college level he may be competing against a roomful of brainiacs, so the biggest concerns in each case are (1) the pressure and workload - is it manageable, and (2) the risk of poor grades (defined as 2.0 or less) and the related risk of flunking out or not making it to grad school. Any observations from engineering majors at Berkeley, Cornell or the others mentioned would be appreciated. Thanks.</p>
<p>Well, to say the least...College is what you make of it no matter where you go. If I had to guess, I'd say that it's more likely he'd get "distracted" at Berkeley than Cornell. I have a friend at Berkeley in engineering. If your son keeps his head straight, he should be able to live a balanced life at Berkeley, perhaps at the cost of late nights, but nothing more.</p>
<p>I'm a freshman engineer at Cornell. I find the work here to be challenging yet manageable with a reasonable amount of work. If your son continues to be a good student, he should have no problem maintaining a 3.0 even if he's only moderately intelligent. Classes here are competitive, but I find that most of the competition is with yourself--all the serious students strive to perform as well as they can and it doesn't seem to be very cutthroat. Most people I know study/work in groups and almost always will help others if needed. With a 90%+ graduation rate, there really isn't any need to worry about flunking out or anything like that as long as your son takes school seriously.
As for the social scene, your son sounds like me. Usually, on the weekends, I'll go see a show performed by a cultural group or a movie playing on campus with my friends or we'll just hang out. There really isn't anything "exciting" to do here (other than hockey games), but I find that to be a good quality in a college town as you focus more on school and build stronger friendships. Anyway, if you have specific questions, feel free to ask me.</p>
<p>For one thing, the Asian comment is a bit off base there. (I have a penchant for understatement) Though you have your stereotypical Asian "togetherness", it won't kill any Asian to associate with non-Asians (for example, I'm Asian but don't associate with most Asians because I don't like the atmosphere of those relations).</p>
<p>From what I've heard from friends currently in Berkeley engineering:</p>
<p>If he is one of those who takes school casually and won't adapt before halfway through a semester to an exceedingly grueling courseload, he should go to Cornell.</p>
<p>It's not that Cornell's program is that much easier (I don't actually know about Cornell's, but I assume it's pretty tough as well), but Berkeley enthusiastically utilizes weeder courses which will murder students who don't realize they've been tossed in the ocean to swim. Below a C, which isn't that hard to manage if he doesn't realize how hard the course is quickly, and he'll find himself on probabtion/kicked.</p>
<p>Towerpumpkin, thanks for your comment - it's exactly what I was looking for, someone's actual experience rather than "hype", which can be exaggerated. </p>
<p>Allorion, have any of your friends talked about the difficulty of changing majors at Berkeley, say from ME to CompE? Berkeley's website suggests that it is nearly impossible, but since many students change their minds, I can't believe that they are really that rigid. Also, I was only kidding about a 2.0 gpa being ok- I hope he does much better than that if he wants grad school, but as long as he is able to manage comfortably above a 2.0 his 1st semester, assuming reasonable diligence on his part, that would be fine with us.</p>
<p>I was a grad student at Berkeley in astrophysics, but my Phd advisor was in Mechanical Engineering (I was doing an interdisciplinary thesis),
so I spent a lot of time in Etcheverry Hall (where Mech E. is based).</p>
<p>Engineering at Berkeley is difficult, but it is no harder or easier than at Cornell. Students do work hard (face it, engineering is difficult everywhere), but from what I saw, the undergrads still manage to balance the workload and have fun too.</p>
<p>Both Cornell and Berkeley are phenomenal in engineering, but they do have very different campus vibes. Your son should absolutely, definitely visit both before he decides... he can't really go wrong, but
he may feel more comfortable at one or the other.</p>
<p>dnpwlee, from what I've gathered from them as long as you have good grades (generally above 3.0, preferable somewhat higher in engineering), the other departments will happily take you. So if you're a top student that easily gets onto the Dean's Honor List, for instance, it's a cinch to switch.</p>
<p>Of course, if you're switching because you're in trouble in the major... you might be in some trouble.</p>
<p>Allorion, don't most of the Berkeley profs (at least in the 1st year classes) grade on a bell-shaped curve around a C grade? If so, having the gpa necessary to change one's major or school (especially during the 1st year) would be the exception and not the rule. Does the 3.0 requirement also apply to someone moving out of Engineering into Arts/Sciences (for example, to Physics or Math)?</p>
<p>dnpwlee...
The curve is NOT that harsh... more like they curve around a B-
or a B-/C+ in the lower level classes, and curve around a B, B/B- or B- in upper level classes... but it's all the perogative of the individual professor.</p>
<p>Yes, first year classes are designed to get rid of some of the "dead weight" (harsh way to put it, but it's what some professors consider it) that Berkeley takes on by admitting in bulk.</p>
<p>It's generally easier to transfer to Arts/Sciences than it is to another engineering major (I don't know why this is, though I've heard complaints... other engineering in seperate schools/just hard to transfer as well?). Anyhow, 3.0 is usually the rule for capped (impacted) majors in L&S. You should be somewhat above 3.0 for switching schools, I believe, but Letters and Sciences should be easier to get into than one of the engineering schools.</p>
<p>Edit: Harvard<em>and</em>Berkeley is right though. If your son is a good student, he shouldn't be too badly off, since that dead weight gives somewhat of a buffer. But if he doesn't start working hard on the murderously long "problem sets" (not my words, I've never done or seen a "problem set" in my life) and start taking the courses seriously, he'll still take a significant hit to his GPA.</p>
<p>Sorry about only being able to give hearsay. I'm going through the process of deciding what college to attend as well, though my school's pretty much a feeder school for Berkeley (Berkeley took 39 students from my school last year).</p>