Berkeley Mathematics/Applied Mathematics.

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>Anyone here a math major or does anyone here know about the math department at UC Berkeley? I look forward to majoring in math and I plan to study at Berkeley. I know that Berkeley has an extraordinary mathematics department (up there with MIT and Stanford) but I wonder just how it is for people to study mathematics at Berkeley. Are the classes for math majors as competitive and cutthroat as the Engineering and Science classes? Do the courses there have harsh grading systems like some of those weeder classes? Is it hard to achieve a high GPA if one majors in math or applied mathematics at Berkeley?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>My S is a 3rd year applied math major, and I asked him about your questions. The lower-division math courses are not weeders, as they are also generally prereqs for science majors. In his opinion, the first upper-division math course one takes is what really weeds people out. All courses are graded on a curve. My S has a high GPA, and is doing a double major. I think he finds it reasonably challenging, but he also applies himself to his studies.
He also mentioned that if you go to ratemyproffessor.com, that you will not find any smiley face ratings for the math professors.</p>

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My S is a 3rd year applied math major, and I asked him about your questions. The lower-division math courses are not weeders, as they are also generally prereqs for science majors.

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<p>Oh, I don't know about that. In fact, the exact opposite seems to be tue. Some of the lower-division math courses (notably Math 1B) ARE weeders and it is PRECISELY because they are prereqs for science majors (as well as engineering majors). Those majors WANT to weed people out before they get into later science/engineering courses and one way they do it is through math courses.</p>

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<p>Thanks for asking your son avoidngwork.</p>

<p>I have another question as well. I noticed that Berkeley only offers BA degrees to Math and Applied Math majors and that Physics courses aren't really requirements for these majors. Regardless, do Math and Applied Math majors take Physics courses? It just seems odd that a Math or Applied Math major wouldn't.</p>

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Oh, I don't know about that. In fact, the exact opposite seems to be tue. Some of the lower-division math courses (notably Math 1B) ARE weeders and it is PRECISELY because they are prereqs for science majors (as well as engineering majors). Those majors WANT to weed people out before they get into later science/engineering courses and one way they do it is through math courses.

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<p>Yes, but with respect to a mathematics major, those courses are not going to be too bad. Of course I am assuming that the mathematics student is a strong student, but I think that is a pretty safe assumption assuming it's Berkeley. </p>

<p>For math major in general, it is abstract algebra and analysis where it gets pretty tough. Plenty of students are good at solving problems (i.e. calculus), but far fewer are good at writing coherent proofs. Which is exactly what abstract algebra and analysis demand.</p>

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Yes, but with respect to a mathematics major, those courses are not going to be too bad. Of course I am assuming that the mathematics student is a strong student, but I think that is a pretty safe assumption assuming it's Berkeley.

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<p>So, what are you saying there - that all those Berkeley science/engineering students who got weeded out from the math were not strong students? </p>

<p>Look, the truth is, in all of the technical majors at Berkeley, including math, there are students who are going to be deemed 'not good enough' and will get weeded out. </p>

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I have another question as well. I noticed that Berkeley only offers BA degrees to Math and Applied Math majors and that Physics courses aren't really requirements for these majors. Regardless, do Math and Applied Math majors take Physics courses? It just seems odd that a Math or Applied Math major wouldn't.

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<p>Uh, what's odd about it exactly? Math and Physics are not the same thing. Why would you think a math student, even an applied math student, would be required to take physics courses?</p>

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So, what are you saying there - that all those Berkeley science/engineering students who got weeded out from the math were not strong students?

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<p>Don't put words in my mouth. I am simply saying that mathematics students, in theory, should be better than engineering majors at math.</p>

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Don't put words in my mouth. I am simply saying that mathematics students, in theory, should be better than engineering majors at math.

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<p>Actually, I'm not sure about that. First off, when you consider the fact that the engineering students had to undergo a tougher admissions process than the Letters & Science applicants (including prospective math majors), I think it's actually unclear who is really more knowledgeable about math. </p>

<p>But more importantly, let's keep in mind that these are * prospective * math majors. Plenty of students come into Berkeley thinking that they want to major in, especially one of the technical majors, and then get absolutely creamed by the coursework. I know people who came to Berkeley wanting to major in the sciences, probably because they did really well in high school in their science courses, and then got absolutely crushed in their Berkeley intro sciences courses. Just because you think you want to major in something in Berkeley doesn't mean that you actually will end up majoring in it.</p>

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<p>math 53 and 54 are weeders, aren't they?</p>

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<p>Tiberius, Certainly as a math major one could take Physics, but it is not part of the math major curriculum which is pretty standard across universities. I received my BA in math in the 70's, and as I look at the track as offered by all of the UCs, it is pretty much the same now as when I was studying.</p>

<p>If we define weeders as the courses that make or break you (as opposed to courses trying to limit the numbers in impacted majors) then I agree with GatorEng23's point that the true weeders for the math major are analysis and abstract algebra.</p>

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<p>
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Are the classes for math majors as competitive and cutthroat as the Engineering and Science classes? Do the courses there have harsh grading systems like some of those weeder classes? Is it hard to achieve a high GPA if one majors in math or applied mathematics at Berkeley?

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<p>Yes, yes, and yes. Not trying to scare you here, but the math classes at Berkeley aren't easy, and some easily match the intro science classes in difficulty of grading. Of course, it varies from class to class. Sure, a lot of students do pretty well and get out with As or Bs, but many do not. Just keep that in mind.</p>

<p>To be fair, I think math is like this at most colleges. It's not an easy major to begin with.</p>

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My S is a 3rd year applied math major, and I asked him about your questions. The lower-division math courses are not weeders, as they are also generally prereqs for science majors. In his opinion, the first upper-division math course one takes is what really weeds people out.

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<p>I don't know what school your son attends, but it sure doesn't sound like Berkeley. One of the most infamous weeders at Berkeley is the dreaded Math 1B. Math 16A-B, Math 53 and Math 54 aren't a walk in the park either, and like sakky said, it's primarily to weed out potential science majors. Heck, I would even go beyond that and say that they are used to weed out people going for majors outside math/science, like Haas or Econ which require 1-2 semesters of calculus.</p>

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Regardless, do Math and Applied Math majors take Physics courses? It just seems odd that a Math or Applied Math major wouldn't.

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<p>Well, I don't think you have to. Some do just out of sheer interest or to keep their options open (most science majors require physics).</p>

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Yes, but with respect to a mathematics major, those courses are not going to be too bad. Of course I am assuming that the mathematics student is a strong student, but I think that is a pretty safe assumption assuming it's Berkeley.

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<p>That's what we'd all like to think. The truth is, there are some students with strong math backgrounds who still struggle in math courses at Berkeley. Yeah, even math majors. There are students who scored well on the AP Calculus BC exam who opt to take Math 1A (equivalent of AP Calculus AB).</p>

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math 53 and 54 are weeders, aren't they?

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<p>I find it hard to define certain courses as weeders in an absolute sense. Let's just say they are not as much of a weeder as Math 1B but they're definitely not easy.</p>

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I don't know what school your son attends, but it sure doesn't sound like Berkeley.

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<p>My S is a 3rd year at Berkeley.</p>

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<p>I took math 1B with Olsson last semester after only taking AP calculus AB in high school. It didn't seem that hard.</p>

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That's what we'd all like to think. The truth is, there are some students with strong math backgrounds who still struggle in math courses at Berkeley. Yeah, even math majors. There are students who scored well on the AP Calculus BC exam who opt to take Math 1A (equivalent of AP Calculus AB).

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<p>Obviously, I can't argue with you since you actually go to Berkeley. So I'll take your word for it. However, if you have taken abstract and/or analysis, you can appreciate my view that these are truly hard courses and, in theory, should be the true math weeders.</p>

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Obviously, I can't argue with you since you actually go to Berkeley. So I'll take your word for it. However, if you have taken abstract and/or analysis, you can appreciate my view that these are truly hard courses and, in theory, should be the true math weeders.

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<p>Nobody is saying that these aren't hard courses and are probably the 'intended' weeders for math majors. However, i would classify lower-division courses such as Math 1B as weeders also even if they are just 'accidental weeders', meaning that while their intent may not be to weed out prospective math majors, they still do it. In other words, from the point of view of the student, it doesn't matter whether he got weeded out intentionally or accidentally. Either way, he got weeded out, and that's all that matters. </p>

<p>The truth of the matter is, plenty of prospective math majors (and science majors, engineering majors etc.) who get weeded out would have done just fine if they had just gone to a different, easier school. When you get weeded out of a major, it's generally not because you don't understand the material of the major at all, but rather it's that you don't understand the material * to the level that Berkeley wants you to understand it *, and that's a fundamentally arbitrary distinction. A lot of people who get weeded out of a particular major at Berkeley actually probably know the material better than a lot of people who successfully completed that same major at a no-name school.</p>

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<p>Okay, you've convinced me. You see, at Florida, people rarely get weeded out in lower division courses. At worse, students retake the course. Our engineering program has thousands of students, but nothing is impacted. Switching to another major is very easy. Come to think of it, the only impacted major there is at Florida is journalism.</p>

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<p>I can't decide Berkeley or Davis, enrolling in Mentorships for Undergraduate Research Participants in the Physical and Mathematical Sciences (MURPPS).</p>