Berkeley or Stanford for Engineering?

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I was fortunate to be accepted by both Berkeley and Stanford for the fall of 2012. I want to study some type of engineering but I'm not completely sure what field I want to go into yet. I love chemistry so chemical engineering is a definite possibility but I've also been looking pretty seriously at engineering physics or a more theoretical discipline. Also, I definitely want to participate in undergraduate research during my undergrad as that if a very important element of getting into a top graduate school. I've visited both universities and loved both of them. I also received a Regents' scholarship at Berkeley so that would hopefully eliminate problems with not being able to get classes. Money really isn't an issue though because my parents have my education taken care of so please don't consider cost at all when giving feedback.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

<p>I got into berks and Stanford as a chemE major. If you’re not sure what you want to do yet go to Stanford. It is very hard to transfer into some of the engineering majors at berkeley while at Stanford it is no problem. In addition, Stanford has a fund set aside to foster undergraduate research.</p>

<p>For what majors would you consider Berkeley to be a better school than Stanford?</p>

<p>I saw this in the berkeley thread …it applies to EECS but still useful.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/1313681-eecs-berkeley.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/1313681-eecs-berkeley.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Honestly, most people choose Stanford (greater prestige ??) But with berkeley regents, you have a great advantage.</p>

<p>Another link <a href=“http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/advising/2011-12%20Announcement.pdf[/url]”>http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/current-undergraduates/advising/2011-12%20Announcement.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I think at this point, it is more of your personal feel towards the campus.</p>

<p>Warning - long post. I’ve answered this before, so apologies if some things don’t seem relevant.</p>

<p>For your interests, they’re both great, and you can rest assured that no matter what you major in, you’re going to be in a strong department. Both have comparable faculties, with a slight edge to Stanford. Research opportunities are plentiful at both. However, while having Regents’ can make it easier to get involved in them, there’s less flexibility in which professor(s) you get to work with. Stanford and Berkeley have about the same # of professors, but Stanford’s student body is less than half the size of Berkeley’s. So the research positions are easier to come by, and you’re more likely to be able to work with the professor of your choice.</p>

<p>At Stanford, you’re also able to take almost any graduate-level course you want. Once you get past the intro courses (including the intro [subfield] classes), you’re ready to take more advanced classes in a given subfield, which tends to mean you can take graduate-level courses in that area. It’s very common for students to do this (I’d say most do this before graduating). That can be a real leg-up in admissions to grad schools, since it helps to prove that you are capable of grad-level work. I’m not sure how Berkeley is in this respect.</p>

<p>Funding, as you can probably guess, is an area where the two differ a lot. At Stanford, which hands out more in undergraduate research grants than any other university, the typical research grant is $6,000 either for summer research (and such positions are plentiful) or for research during the year. There are also smaller grants available, as well as grants for field projects, study abroad, public service, arts projects, and a lot more. The student organizations at Stanford are pretty well-funded, which has actually prompted some controversy among the student body about “wasteful” spending (e.g. spending money on lots of T-shirts for the organization). While that’s a point of criticism, having too much money is a much nicer problem to deal with that not having enough.</p>

<p>Both schools have vast facilities, but Stanford is a bit ahead: the gross square feet of Berkeley’s campus buildings is around 10 million, while Stanford’s is around 16 million. By virtue of the smaller student body, you’ll have easier access to the many research facilities. And because Stanford has one of the most aggressive capital budgets in the world, its facilities are constantly being renovated, replaced, or rebuilt. New buildings pop up quite fast given the very generous alumni, who often donate more than Stanford’s nearest competitors combined (Stanford has led the pack in fundraising for many years now). This isn’t to say that Berkeley’s facilities aren’t continually renovated or built anew, just that Stanford tends to be able to do that more. Berkeley’s campus is cramped and space is limited, so it’s built up, while Stanford’s campus, while dense, is built out.</p>

<p>Housing is a stark difference. At Berkeley, you’re guaranteed 2 years housing, and it’s mostly high-rise housing. At Stanford, you get 4 years, and none of it is high-rise. Because of that, there’s more close-knit bonding among your dorm mates; most of Stanford’s dorms are 50-80 students. A frequent complaint I heard from Berkeley students is that they aren’t even close-knit with their own floor, much less the building. I’ve also heard them complain about spotty wireless in the dorms, the explanation for which is supposedly that one or two routers is expected to support a few floors of students. In all the dorms at Stanford, you have 2-3 routers on each floor, as well as a router in the lounge and a router in the computer cluster, so internet is always super fast and reliable. On that note, the computer clusters and studies/libraries in the dorms are really nice: pretty new 21" Macs (I think they have a deal with Apple to get new Macs often), sometimes Windows machines as well. And different dorms will have different facilities - theaters, music practice rooms, conference rooms, etc. I’m not sure how many common facilities Berkeley has in dorms, but either way the common areas are distributed over fewer students at Stanford.</p>

<p>The student bodies are diverse in different ways. Berkeley has more socioeconomic diversity - around a third are Pell Grant recipients (that’s ~18% at Stanford), and about the same are first-generation students (15-20% at Stanford). Stanford wins in racial and geographic diversity.</p>

<p>There are hardworking, dedicated, and passionate students at both. But I think there’s more homogeneity of that kind of student at Stanford than at Berkeley, so you’re more likely to be surrounded by students who are as engaged as you. I think this is why students are more engaged in extracurricular activities at Stanford - both have a comparable # of student organizations, despite the fact that Berkeley is 2x as large.</p>

<p>Both schools have strong networks, but for different reasons. Berkeley’s strength is size, with around 450,000 living alumni. Stanford’s strength is connection; while there are “only” about 200,000 living alumni, they’re much better connected and engaged. They’re also more loyal, as most are pleased with their Stanford experience. I don’t think the same could be said of Berkeley, which seems to have large numbers of bitter/uncaring alumni.</p>

<p>It’s not known how much grade inflation there is in engineering at Stanford (if any at all), but Berkeley is known for its grade deflation in engineering. That can make it difficult to get into top PhD programs, which tend to take on those with a 3.5+ GPA.</p>

<p>Stanford’s on the quarter system, while Berkeley’s on the semester system. Each has its merits; you should search the forum, as that’s been discussed a lot. I personally prefer the quarter system, which is fast-paced and intense, keeps you focused, and lets you take more classes.</p>

<p>One thing definitely in Berkeley’s favor is the city itself, which is very diverse and exciting. That’s the one factor that gave me pause when choosing to turn down Berkeley. But I figured, college is first and foremost about education, not about the location. There are also some downsides: there are homeless people abound (though they’re mostly harmless, but I’ve heard many stories about being harassed by homeless people, many of whom have supposedly been on the streets since Reagan closed down a bunch of mental institutions). And being integrated with the city does make it a little less safe. I was never sketched out walking across Stanford’s campus at 2 AM, but I would’ve been cautious/alert doing the same at Berkeley. There are muggings, though rare; that doesn’t happen at Stanford.</p>

<p>And of course, no comparison is complete without mentioning Stanford’s weather, which is better than Berkeley’s - warmer, less rain, more sun.</p>

<p>Both are great schools, and with Regents’, Berkeley is a great option for you. But I think Stanford’s better. ;)</p>

<p>To the OP: Are you sure you got into Stanford?</p>

<p>Here you are asking between the three UCs…no mention of Stanford
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/1316061-ucb-vs-ucsd-vs-ucsb.html#post14145255[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/1316061-ucb-vs-ucsd-vs-ucsb.html#post14145255&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I’ll still post some thoughts even if this is fake…</p>

<p>If you are into alternative lifestyles, then Berkeley might be for you. The co-op system at Berkeley is much more extensive, Berkeley has better access to SanFran and all the culture that comes with that, and the town of Berkeley is light years ahead of Palo Alto for the typical college student.</p>

<p>You can find a niche of people at Stanford, but it gets moderately annoying to be surrounded by high achievers and generally shallow people.</p>

<p>Regents I think guarantees you housing for 4 years and gives a faculty mentor.</p>

<p>If accepted to Berkeley as Undeclared - Engineering, that gives time to explore and feel things out before choosing a discipline. </p>

<p>Berkeley’s College of Chemistry is small and a fantastic place to pursue chemistry or chemical engineering.</p>

<p>

Medical school facilities included? Remember, Cal’s medical campus is across the Bay. ;)</p>

<p>^ Stanford’s med school is only 1.5 million GSF. Stanford’s GSF is probably a bit higher than 16m given all the recent construction. Either way, the GSF per capita at Stanford is about 4x that of Berkeley.</p>

<p>And don’t forget Stanford’s med school and UCSF have pretty strong ties today, perhaps more than even Berkeley does. ;)</p>

<p>Phantasmagoric, you certainly like to get lost in the weeds…</p>

<p>Berkeley is perhaps just more efficient with its capital. Did you include LBNL? :wink: </p>

<p>Yes, I’m aware UCSF and Stanford medical tried to merge in the past, and they probably do have greater ties with Stanford’s medical faculty. </p>

<p>Berkeley undergrads have access to internships at UCSF that are only available to Berkeley students. Berkeley and UCSF have several joint degree programs…none with 'furd.</p>

<p>Did you include these facilities in your silly square footage comparison?:
[02.27.2009</a> - Dedication of new CITRIS headquarters marks new stage of innovation to help fuel economic growth](<a href=“http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2009/02/27_citris.shtml]02.27.2009”>02.27.2009 - Dedication of new CITRIS headquarters marks new stage of innovation to help fuel economic growth)
[05.17.2007</a> - New teaching, research building gets go-ahead](<a href=“http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2007/05/17_lks.shtml]05.17.2007”>05.17.2007 - New teaching, research building gets go-ahead)
[Inside</a> Berkeley’s newest, most discreet, building | Berkeleyside](<a href=“http://www.berkeleyside.com/2011/08/08/berkeley-newest-most-discreet-building-cal-athlete-center/]Inside”>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2011/08/08/berkeley-newest-most-discreet-building-cal-athlete-center/)
<a href=“http://www.cp.berkeley.edu/CP/Projects/Helios/graphics_for_regents_Jan_2010.pdf[/url]”>http://www.cp.berkeley.edu/CP/Projects/Helios/graphics_for_regents_Jan_2010.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>All under construction, or built. Plus other buildings currently under renovation/replacement and new dorm buildings not listed here.</p>

<p>^ I never cared enough to find out exactly whether Berkeley’s GSF figure was all-inclusive of independent units, nor do I know whether Stanford’s does either. I believe it came from a document that summarized all the UCs’ future capital plans and had some basic stats on each campus, including GSF. That was from 2010 IIRC, so it probably did include most of the buildings you’re linking to, but who knows? It may have been lagging.</p>

<p>Stanford students have access to classes/research/internships at the med school, and they don’t have to commute across the Bay for it. :slight_smile: And Stanford doesn’t have any joint programs with UCSF because it has its own medical school.</p>

<p>phantasmagoric, nice post. I agree with everything you said.</p>

<p>Phantasmagoric, THANK YOU!
I got into Stanford and a few east coast schools, but I’ve mainly been deciding between USC and Stanford for biomechanical engineering. Stanford would seem the obvious choice, but I got merit research at USC so I could work for three years, paid, with a professor on a long-term research project. And they also admitted me to an early-entrance program and I got to know the faculty pretty well D: So I feel bad turning down all they’ve offered me. However, I have loved Stanford (and their on-campus Jamba) since the moment I set foot on campus four years ago, and you’ve helped to bring me to my senses haha.
I also enjoyed the little UCB/Stanford competition there.</p>

<p>phanta…excellent post!</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Chemical Engineering Grad:
Berkeley #2
Stanford #5</p>

<p>Chemistry Grad:
Berkeley #1
Stanford #4</p>

<p>Undergrad Chemical Engineering:
Berkeley #2
Stanford #3</p>

<p>^ I’ll give you that - chemical engineering is one of Stanford’s “weaker” engineering departments (which says a lot, considering it’s still top-5). But I don’t think the difference in departmental quality (probably very little) outweighs the differences I outlined before.</p>

<p>^ And which ones are those? More square footage? Low-rise dorms?</p>

<p>It’s a difference in culture. People say Berkeley is better for grad school and Stanford for undergrad, in terms of lifestyles. That’s basically like saying Berkeley is better for adults.</p>

<p>^ you must really dislike Stanford, as you’ve now called its students “generally shallow” and then spouted “People say X” and concluded that Berkeley is better for adults. </p>

<p>Honestly, to anyone reading Senior0991’s posts: know that he’s one of the very, very few students who don’t seem to like Stanford, and the overwhelming majority of students would disagree with his remarks.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>And better funding, and smaller classes, and more research opportunities, and more uniformly strong peers, and a better alumni network… </p>

<p>You make it seem like having more facilities and better dorms (that aren’t just cramped apartment complexes for thousands of students) are small considerations.</p>