Berkeley Prestige=Perception of Selectivity?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>So theres no doubt that Berkeley is a very prestigious school. But I had really never realized how much prestige it had before I searched these forums. Nationally, it places near the lower-ivy level (which isn't too surprisingly high) but INTERNATIONALLY, it seems to be on par with schools like Yale, Princeton, MIT. </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/177333-does-berkeley-have-international-national-prestige.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/177333-does-berkeley-have-international-national-prestige.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>My question is, although Berkeley might be very prestigious around the world (esp. East Asia), and on par (and in some cases MORE) with the big-dogs like Yale, MIT, Stanford and (especially) Princeton, does that prestige correlate with the public perception of selectivity? Do people perceive Berkeley STUDENTS to be extreme geniuses on par with Harvard, Yale, etc? Do they view getting into Berkeley as much of an accomplishment as Yale, MIT, etc. OR do they simply view the Berkeley SCHOOL as an extremely good top level school as a WHOLE?</p>

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<p>Prestige is correlated with selectivity to an extent.</p>

<p>Personally, I view the average [undergraduate] student at Berkeley as much weaker than the average student at HYPSM. The best [undergraduate] students at Berkeley are noticeably weaker than the “best” [undergraduate] students (in a particular field) at HYPSM. However, there’s the middle ground that is common to both Cal and HYPSM (students of similar caliber).</p>

<p>Personally, I believe that getting into Cal is nowhere as impressive as getting into HYPSM and it seems like Cal acceptances are becoming commonplace at schools such at Mission San Jose where about 100 students out of a class of 500 are ACCEPTED by Cal. *Note that probably around 150-200 apply (random number no sources etc, just a gut feeling). Many kids from the Bay Area felt they were ENTITLED to acceptance by Cal but few had that feeling for HYPSM (well a couple did).</p>

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<p>Foraminifera are you from Mission? One of my closest friends is from Mission and I’ve met another 2 randomly despite the fact they all apparently don’t want to hang out together in Cal. They all talk about how there’s 300-400 of them in Berkeley lol.</p>

<p>I don’t think, even with my swelling school pride, that average Berkeley students are half as amazing as the averaget stuents at HYPSM. But we must remember that it’s not totally fair to compare them because Berkeley is a public school and operates without affirmative action in admissions. Berkeley’s undergrad’s prestige probably mostly comes from its grad and people reductive image of the two schools. However there are definitely some amazing undergrads around, rare as they are relative to our student population.</p>

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<p>On the East Coast, it’s the latter. But you have to understand their frame of reference. In the NE, public schools aren’t ranked very high, if they are ranked at all. So, a UC to them, is just ‘another public school’, albeit a very good one. But for those in academe, Berkeley is extremely prestigious bcos they know that Cal has more top ranked grad departments that Harvard.</p>

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<p>International students tend to have a higher graduate/undergraduate ratio than domestic students. So international reputation may be more heavily influenced by graduate reputation.</p>

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<p>International reputation is also based very heavily on the strength of technical programs and not so much on the strength of the University at large. L&S is a generally high-quality school, but that’s not what we’re being judged on - we’re being judged on the strength and appearance of our science and engineering programs, and a lot of people seem to have forgotten that there are several entire industries that were founded, shaped, and initially populated largely by Berkeley grads, and that this is happening again, right now with Synthetic Biology.</p>

<p>It’s also worth noting that since this is a public research institution, the strength of the graduate programs has a huge effect on the strength of their undergraduate equivalents in science and engineering because research apprenticeships are such a major part of undergraduate technical education.</p>

<p>I’m also constantly amused by how many people completely ignore Caltech when making these comparisons.</p>

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<p>Yes, I definitely agree with you on this point. The caliber at Caltech is very high (I was there last summer). I mean, I think it just has to do with how much infatuation HYPSM have received when you compare those schools to a public tier like Cal. I mean, the general public views Berkeley as a good school (with, of course, financial hiccups and whatnot), but sometimes people will note that HYPSM schools are “above” Berkeley. </p>

<p>But in retrospect, why does this matter to a lot of students? True, maybe the average undergraduate population doesn’t have the strength of a typical HYPSM student, but if you come to Cal and you work hard and get your act together, there are incredible (research) opportunities here. </p>

<p>Are you really going to let what other people’s opinions affect how you perform in your college career?</p>

<p>(Sorry for the tangent.)</p>

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<p>How much of this means anything in the real world ?</p>

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<p>In the real (international) world, college prestige is HUGE. Not so much in the US.</p>

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<p>Stupid metric but effective: how many universities have parking spaces designated for “Nobel Prize winners only.”</p>

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<p>I also think it has to do with the major. Engineering… I’d put it right up there with the best.</p>

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<p>Why is the Berkeley forum always filled with TONS and TONS of posts like this. It’s ridiculous (No offense to OP). Now I don’t care about Harvard, Yale, Princeton,etc., but when I was a senior in high school I picked Berkeley because I was rejected at Stanford and MIT (Stanford being my top choice). </p>

<p>Now after coming here, I’m having a great time, meeting nice new people, and yes, I would have probably had a nice experience at those other schools as well.</p>

<p>It’s funny how obsessed high school seniors are with the ranking of human potential based on where they decide to go to college, and those college’s ranking are made by silly folks who want to make money off of the exaggerated concerns of loving parents and their overachieving students, since all they want is to ensure their kids get the best in life. [I know this because my parents and I were like this too and I realize all these threads were the same way I thought of things in high school too]</p>

<p>Well I can’t say anything about other schools, but if you came here to Berkeley and your studying hard/smart, you’ll probably be fine in life. Will you be as amazing as a graduate of some other supposedly fancier university? I don’t know but what I do know if everyone gets in to where they belong and you make the best of it and use the tools it offers to make the most out of life.</p>

<p>Will I make more money than a Stanford or MIT EECS grad? I don’t know and honestly I don’t care because I"m happy so far with what I’m learning here and from internships I’ve had, the things I’ve learned here so far are very useful and valuable, and I can’t wait to learn more in the remaining years I have here.</p>

<p>Seriously they are like a billion threads (hyperbole) like this it’s ridiculous. Just wait for your admission results and be happy with whatever options you have and make the best of it. Honestly ask yourself what “prestige” really means.</p>

<p>Btw this is in no way targeted at the OP or this thread in particular. This was just a general message to all these kinds of threads.</p>

<p>I understand why these threads appear. I was a overachieving high school valedictorian, so I understand why people make these “prestige” threads. But trust me in that the importance that prestige might mean to you now in your senior year in high school will only make you sad if you happen to not get into your No. 1 choice college.</p>

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<p>Personally, I think it’s better to go to your second choice (which would probably require that your first choice be an unrealistic option). I love it here and don’t want to leave, but I doubt I’d feel the same way if I’d come in with any expectations about good experiences - when I got here I fully intended to transfer out as soon as I could, and I suspect that things like that have a lot to do with my appreciation for the experiences I’ve had here.</p>

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<p>@ Diivio. CC should sticky your comments for all the students and parents to see. not sure if anyone would listen or truly absorb your wise words. thanks for posting :slight_smile: and best wishes to you</p>

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<p>To me, Berkeley has a lot of prestige.</p>

<p>I am not from California, but I imagine that some kids go to Berkeley over Stanford for cost reasons.</p>

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<p>I read in another thread that 98% of cross admits pick Stanford. Draw your own conclusions.</p>

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<p>Well, let me provide some perspective. As much as high school seniors and their parents may obsess over college rankings, believe me, those in higher-ed administration - the Deans, Department Heads/Chairs - surely obsess about it even more. Entire internal administrative staff meetings sequences and scholarly retreats are devoted to strategies how departments or schools can improve its ranking and prestige, whether that be by increasing the production of published articles in A-level journals, increasing the citations of said articles, ‘poaching’ away star researchers - or perhaps even better, editors of top journals - to the school. Sometimes the discussions include how to increase the citations (and hence prestige) of the journals that the department itself publishes and therefore controls, or to even start a journal of their own, all with the aim of increasing the status of the department. {As a passing note, somebody really ought to investigate exactly how certain journals became more prestigious than others.} Often times, discussions will turn to the improvement of PhD student job-talk preparation and placement, as placement of students into top departments is also considered to be highly prestigious. Indeed, certain universities - and sometimes even political leaders - make it their express goal to boost academic prestige. </p>

<p>[Why</a> Top 20 : Clemson University](<a href=“http://www.clemson.edu/administration/president/whytop20/]Why”>http://www.clemson.edu/administration/president/whytop20/)</p>

<p>[Should</a> U.S. News Make Presidents Rich? | Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/03/19/usnews]Should”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/03/19/usnews)</p>

<p>[Universities</a> chase higher ranking: research - GlobalTimes](<a href=“http://china.globaltimes.cn/society/2011-02/623719.html]Universities”>http://china.globaltimes.cn/society/2011-02/623719.html)</p>

<p>[The</a> ratings game : Article : Nature](<a href=“http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7285/full/464007b.html]The”>The ratings game | Nature)</p>

<p>So any preoccupation with rankings and prestige held by high school seniors and parents is entirely of a piece with the sentiment held by university administrators. In fact, those obsessed high school seniors might well consider a future career in university administration, where they can convert their sentiments into a professional goal.</p>

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<p>Berkeley undergrads are pretty dumb on average. Very very few students are impressive.</p>

<p>Grad students are very capable relative to peers around the world.</p>

<p>Faculty here is pretty god tier.</p>

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<p>Actually, full-pay in-state students (from top perhaps 5% income households) would be the ones who find Berkeley significantly less expensive. Stanford is rich enough that they can out-financial-aid almost any other school besides the military service academies for the other 95%.</p>

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<p>The video was to raise funds for Berkeley, but it somehow has any relevance to the topic. Watch it: [The</a> Campaign for Berkeley](<a href=“http://alumni-friends.berkeley.edu/fightingback/]The”>http://alumni-friends.berkeley.edu/fightingback/)</p>