<p>"You can't compare Berkeley's numbers (with 90% California residents) to Cornell's. It's simple as that." </p>
<p>Frankly, it doesn't appear Berkeley applicants are exactly dominating outside of California. In fact, I would say that California is where Berkeley's strength lies because that's where it is best known.</p>
<p>norcalguy, I don't expect Berkeley applicants to "dominate" outside of California. Afterall, it is California's state school. As I recall, you are trying to move back West for medical school. </p>
<p>Berkeley's admissions numbers are very incomplete, but UCLA seems to have a complete data set for 2005:</p>
<p>Their med app. success rate is around 50%, but they sent more than their share of applicants to California medical schools. Considering UCLA and Berkeley are composed of very similar student bodies (aptitude-wise, geographically speaking, etc), I think it's fair to APPROXIMATE Berkeley to UCLA (although Berkeley supposedly has a >60% admit rate vs. UCLA's 50%).</p>
<p>The striking thing to notice is how VERY FEW UCLA med admits are marticulating at out-of-state state medical schools. This supports my theory of California applicants being at a disadvantage because their state medical schools (the UCs) are ultra competitive. </p>
<p>norcalguy, can you find Cornell's California resident pre-med success numbers? That would be interesting.</p>
<p>No, your opinions don't matter. hehehe. I am neither norcalguy nor theslowclap. I am the speaker of truth. You are the speaker of lies. Period. And just because I'm telling it like it is that makes me a troll? Just because you can't stalk my last 100 posts for hours on the internet that makes me a clown? Hahahaha, you have a lot to learn, my enemy.</p>
<ol>
<li>Right... no ***** you should choose schools for yourself. Who else is going to do it? The point is that rankings offer the most objective way of looking at schools.</li>
</ol>
<p>And about anonymity: is there really a difference between one user name and the other? Think about it, genius. You're never going to meet anyone on here in real life and even if you do you wouldn't know! Actually, you should thank me for saving you massive internet stalking time. Stalking is unhealthy for you; I'm actually helping you.</p>
<p>Ohhh who's the bitter, insecure, troll now! BOOO YA! Entertain this, you charity case!</p>
<p>Notice how I fit in personal attacks and just as much logic into less words. Take notes.</p>
<p>Kudos, troll. You're actually pretty funny....In person, I bet you're like Andy Bernard from the show The Office:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70HBNN3xEn0%5B/url%5D">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70HBNN3xEn0</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk98Gh7-cmU%5B/url%5D">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk98Gh7-cmU</a></p>
<p>Is that supposed to be an insult, troll? Those videos were a little funny. Other than that, it's arbitrary what videos you post. I could just as easily call you a ****tard and not post anything.</p>
<p>That was a compliment. You really are funny, like Andy Bernard.</p>
<p>...also, why are you so hostile, Andy? I just acknowledged that you are funny, and even you said the videos were "a little funny". Funny, funny Andy.</p>
<p>Well thanks, I guess I am funny. But don't call me Andy, please. I'm your father; call me "daddy."</p>
<p>
[quote]
1. Do you have any real evidence that the "true" Berkeley data is "certainly worse"? I didn't release my data, and I was admitted....the vast majority of "time-off" applicants I know from Berkeley are first-time applicants. All but one that I know personally were admitted. The ONLY thing we can say about Berkeley's pre-med data is that it's incomplete. Period.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>First off, I see that you get off on misquoting me. I said ALMOST certainly worse, not 'certainly worse'. And I base that on one simple fact - that the data for X-years-outs are worse for MOST schools. If Berkeley is different, that would make Berkeley an exception. </p>
<p>
[quote]
2. "All other things equal"...that is the issue, isn't it? In the vast majority of cases, all things aren't equal...keep in mind how limited the options are for most applicants. For me, location trumps prestige. Period. I'll be damned if I spend 4 years of my 20s in Bumf*k USA even if the name sticks afterwards,
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Are you trying to say that Boston (where HMS is located) is Bumf*k USA? </p>
<p>
[quote]
3. That LASIK doc is a glorified cosmetic doc....he caters mostly to rich clients that can afford (unnecessary) corrective vision surgery in a country where many people don't even have access to basic, crucial healthcare needs. From the website: "Dr. Hyver is 100% dedicated to LASIK and laser vision correction". He caters to many clients that bathe themselves in vanity and prestige. Am I surprised that he flaunts his Harvard degree? No. Am I impressed? No. In most medical scenarios, people don't question/care where you got your MD, they are just glad to see a physician as soon as possible.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In most scenarios IN LIFE, nobody cares where you went to college. When I eat at a restaurant, I don't ask and I don't care where the waiter or chef went to college, or even if they went at all. When I get my hair cut, I don't care where the barber went to school. </p>
<p>But there are those few situations in life where it DOES matter. And that's where prestige comes into play. </p>
<p>
[quote]
4. You totally missed the point of the US News example: I was showing how misguided rankings are, US News and others. My alternative to US News Rankings: Don't use arbitrary rankings because using NO ranking is more helpful than using a misguided one and consequently choosing a school for all the wrong reasons
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I understood your point perfectly. In fact, I even said that all rankings are flawed. But again, I ask - what's the alternative? No ranking at all? That's the point that YOU missed. </p>
<p>
[quote]
5. I'll be attending a California med school in August. I am currently doing an MS. I started the application process before I started at Stanford, and I am still at Stanford, and will be graduating in June. My MS is unrelated to medicine, and was not intended to supplement it or enhance my application. They are unrelated. Sakky, I really respect your intellect, but I am very surprised that you didn't catch onto my situation after all my posts that you have read and commented on. Quite frankly, I was dumbfounded and very disappointed when I read your post. Instead of doing my 4th year at Berkeley, I am doing my 4th year at Stanford. It's VERY simple, Sakky.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uh, I think I am the one that should be disappointed and dumbfounded AT YOU, pal. What exactly do you mean "Instead of doing my 4th year at Berkeley, I am doing my 4th year at Stanford? What exactly is this "4th year at Stanford" of which you speak, if it's not for the Stanford MS? According to your previous posts, you graduated from Berkeley in 3 years. That is precisely what you said here in post #4:</p>
<p>"...if I can graduate Berkeley in 3 years (plus a couple summer sessions) with a Bachelor of Science degree + decent GPA, you probably can too."</p>
<p>And consider post #8 here</p>
<p>"My 3 years at Berkeley were fantastic (I'm spending my 4th year at Stanford getting an MS degree), "</p>
<p>Ok, so if this 4th year that you are spending at Stanford is not to get an MS, then what exactly is it then, which is what I said above? Pray tell. </p>
<p>And you still haven't answered the question of why you are getting an unrelated Stanford MS, if you always had the choice of going to your desired med-school straight away? If it's because you just couldn't get into your desired med-school straight away, but instead needed to apply again in the following year in order to get in, then just say so. No shame in honesty. </p>
<p>
[quote]
6. I actually got into the med school that I wanted to go to, thank you very much (I will not disclose for privacy reasons, as medical school class sizes are small, and I wish to remain anonymous).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uh, the question is not whether you got in THIS TIME. The question is whether you got in THE LAST TIME, i.e. when you had graduated from Berkeley. </p>
<p>
[quote]
7. I have my reasons for doing an MS degree, and I am not going to summarize my personal statement on this public forum, so don't push the issue. Admittedly, Stanford is not all that it's hyped up to be, but I don't regret coming here for various reasons.......
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So you are saying that, on the aggregate, your experience at Stanford has been a positive one? You want to go on the record with that?</p>
<p>I don't ask you to tell us all the reasons why you went to Stanford. I am simply curious as to the inconsistencies and gaps in your story. Like I said, why get an unrelated and expensive MS if you always had the choice of going to your desired med school? Now, of course, if you never had that choice in the first place, that would be a different situation. But if that's the case, then I think honesty is the best policy.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The striking thing to notice is how VERY FEW UCLA med admits are marticulating at out-of-state state medical schools. This supports my theory of California applicants being at a disadvantage because their state medical schools (the UCs) are ultra competitive.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree with what you're saying, but again, all that tells me is that if you want to maximize your chances of going to any med-school, you don't want to come to Berkeley or UCLA or any other California school for that matter. Instead, you want to go to a school in a state in which the competition for in-state med-school spots is less fierce. Going to such a school doesn't automatically grant you state residency, but it certainly helps. </p>
<p>The bottom line, formerlyabcdefgh, is that is doesn't really matter WHY Berkeley has a relatively low placement rate. It just matters that it DOES have a low placement rate. All the talk about how Berkeley gets screwed because UC med admissions are difficult - that does no good for the guy who goes to Berkeley and can't get into any med-schools when if he had gone to some other school in another state, and established state residency there, he might have gotten into the state med school there.</p>
<p>Sakky,</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I don't get off on anything that occurs in these forums....except for Andy's humor, because that troll is a true Funny Man. You said "almost certainly worse" huh? What does that even mean? It's certain or it's not certain....and it all comes down to YOUR speculation. </p></li>
<li><p>I admit, Bum***** USA was a poor expression on many different levels. My apologies. But yeah, Boston is not a place that I personally would like to live. As you can imagine, I didn't apply to any schools there.</p></li>
<li><p>Prestige really matters in medicine huh? Do you ask your doctors where they received their schooling, and follow through on their medical recommendations depending on the answer they give you?</p></li>
<li><p>What am I going to get out of US News Rankings of medical schools that is meaningful for my selection of a medical school? You tell me, because i'm curious. </p></li>
<li><p>"4th year" means 4th year of higher education, genius. My 4th year just happens to be in pursuit of an MS degree. </p></li>
<li><p>I decided that I want to go to medical school AFTER I had already graduated from Berkeley. I am a first-time applicant.</p></li>
<li><p>Sure, I'll go on record with that: My experience at Stanford has been a positive one. You can tattoo that statement on your buttcheeks if you want. It wasn't as great as Berkeley, but it was positive nonetheless. The MAIN reason that I don't regret coming to Stanford is because of the friends I made here- I really like the graduate community at Stanford. </p></li>
<li><p>Like I said, I'm a first-time applicant, and I am doing ONE year at Stanford before med school for reasons unrelated to medicine....and I am not obligated to tell you why I'm here. In fact, you have been VERY secretive about yourself, Sakky. Where did you go to school and why? What do you do as a career and why? What car do you drive and why? What did you eat for breakfast and why? </p></li>
<li><p>Your claim that Berkeley has a relatively low placement rate is contigent on your standards for what a low placement rate is. In comparison to Cornell as a whole, yeah, it is kind of low. In comparision to Cornell's California resident pre-meds, WE HAVE NO DATA TO MAKE A COMPARISON. Cawaiigirl is a CALIFORNIA RESIDENT, so Cornell's stated admit percentage doesn't help her much because for all we know, the California pre-meds at Cornell may have a significantly lower success rate than the 75% stated for Cornell applicants as a whole. We simply don't have the numbers to make an educated comparison.</p></li>
<li><p>(Regarding a question you asked in a previous thread that I forgot to respond to): Stanford pre-meds have told me that Stanford's med admit percentage is around 75%, according to a brochure they received at some information session. I know you want "evidence" of this number, but apparently, Stanford doesn't publicly adverstise it. Personally, I'm not surprised....just like I am not surprised that Stanford doesn't make course evaluations public either:
<a href="http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/4/10/newCourseEvalsAreRestricted%5B/url%5D">http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/4/10/newCourseEvalsAreRestricted</a></p></li>
</ol>
<p>(btw, be sure to read the reader comments at the bottom of the article)</p>
<p>
[quote]
3. Prestige really matters in medicine huh? Do you ask your doctors where they received their schooling, and follow through on their medical recommendations depending on the answer they give you?</p>
<ol>
<li>What am I going to get out of US News Rankings of medical schools that is meaningful for my selection of a medical school? You tell me, because i'm curious.
[/quote]
</li>
</ol>
<p>I never said that prestige "really matters in medicine". Point to the quote where I said anything to that effect. You can't do it.</p>
<p>What I said is that, all things equal, why wouldn't you take the more prestigious choice? </p>
<p>
[quote]
5. "4th year" means 4th year of higher education, genius. My 4th year just happens to be in pursuit of an MS degree.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's right, and that begs the question that you don't want to answer - why didn't you just apply to med school right out of undergrad? </p>
<p>
[quote]
8. Like I said, I'm a first-time applicant, and I am doing ONE year at Stanford before med school for reasons unrelated to medicine....and I am not obligated to tell you why I'm here. In fact, you have been VERY secretive about yourself, Sakky. Where did you go to school and why? What do you do as a career and why? What car do you drive and why? What did you eat for breakfast and why?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am not the one who made my biography an issue. You did. You basically splashed throughout CC your entire background saying, effectively, "look at me, I went to Cal and I did great, so everybody else can do great at Cal too". I, on the other hand, never made my own biography an issue. </p>
<p>If you didn't want to make your biography an issue, then you should never have brought it up in the first place. But you did. So now it's fair game. </p>
<p>
[quote]
9. Your claim that Berkeley has a relatively low placement rate is contigent on your standards for what a low placement rate is. In comparison to Cornell as a whole, yeah, it is kind of low. In comparision to Cornell's California resident pre-meds, WE HAVE NO DATA TO MAKE A COMPARISON. Cawaiigirl is a CALIFORNIA RESIDENT, so Cornell's stated admit percentage doesn't help her much because for all we know, the California pre-meds at Cornell may have a significantly lower success rate than the 75% stated for Cornell applicants as a whole. We simply don't have the numbers to make an educated comparison.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>But that's entirely irrelevant, because people can and do change their state residency while in school. For example, in the case of Cawaiigirl, if she goes to Cornell, she has the opportunity to establish New York state residency. It's not automatic, but it's certainly feasible. </p>
<p>Hence, like I said before, if you're a California state resident who wants to go to med-school, then it may behoove you to attend a school out of state just for the residency options. By the time of your sophomore/junior year, you ought to have some idea about what your chances are, and so you can then tailor your residency strategy accordingly. If you feel that your candidacy is strong, then you may opt to keep your California state residency and shoot for a UC. If you don't feel it's quite that strong, then you might look to establish residency in the other state and shoot for the med-school in that other state. It may mean getting a part-time job so you can establish an income and start paying taxes in that other state. It may mean registering a car in that other state. It may mean registering to vote there It may mean a whole host of things. But at least you can get the ball rolling. If you go to a California school, you can basically NEVER establish residency in another state while you're still in school. </p>
<p>That's the strategy you have to be looking at it. I'm sure there are Californians who went to Berkeley and did premed and didn't get into any med schools who could have gotten into the public med-school of another state if they had only been able to establish residency there. That's the point. </p>
<p>
[quote]
10. (Regarding a question you asked in a previous thread that I forgot to respond to): Stanford pre-meds have told me that Stanford's med admit percentage is around 75%, according to a brochure they received at some information session. I know you want "evidence" of this number, but apparently, Stanford doesn't publicly adverstise it. Personally, I'm not surprised....just like I am not surprised that Stanford doesn't make course evaluations public either:
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uh, that's not exactly the strongest proof, and hence I still consider it an open question as to what exactly is Stanford's premed placement rate.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Firstly, all things are RARELY equal...and prestigious according to who? US News and their arbitrary ranking methodology?</p></li>
<li><p>You still haven't answered my question: what am I going to get out of US News Rankings of medical schools that is meaningful for my selection of a medical school? </p></li>
<li><p>Why didn't I apply straight out of undergrad? The Answer: because I decided that I want to go to med school AFTER I had already graduated. VERY simple.</p></li>
<li><p>I made my biography an issue when it was relevant in certain threads: threads that involved Berkeley vs. a private school, and threads that involved Berkeley and pre-med. The whole point of my posting on these threads a couple months every year is to assist potential Berkeley students in making their decision and in advising potential pre-meds. Is it so wrong that I include my background under these circumstances? </p></li>
<li><p>So that's the Sakky Solution for California pre-meds huh? Go to a prestigious private school (even with the added costs) and change your state residency to up your odds of getting in if you don't feel that you'll be competitive at a UC school. That's just funny.</p></li>
<li><p>So Stanford is secretive about its medical school placement rate......I'll trust my Stanford friends who say it's 75%, and you can keep it an "open question". Fair deal.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>
[quote]
1. Firstly, all things are RARELY equal...and prestigious according to who? US News and their arbitrary ranking methodology?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sure, things are rarely equal. But so what? That doesn't change the fact that prestige does have value, even if it's not a huge amount of value when you're talking about med school.</p>
<p>Prestigious doesn't have to be according to USNews. It can be according to whatever body of people you deem you need to impress. For example, anyway you cut it, Harvard Medical School is prestigious. Johns Hopkins is prestigious. </p>
<p>
[quote]
2. You still haven't answered my question: what am I going to get out of US News Rankings of medical schools that is meaningful for my selection of a medical school?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I never said that you should necessarily always believe everything USNews ever says. I am simply asking you what ranking system is out there that is better? </p>
<p>
[quote]
3. Why didn't I apply straight out of undergrad? The Answer: because I decided that I want to go to med school AFTER I had already graduated. VERY simple.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Then that begs the question of why you were able to realize that you wanted to get a master's degree at the time, but not get an MD. </p>
<p>
[quote]
4. I made my biography an issue when it was relevant in certain threads: threads that involved Berkeley vs. a private school, and threads that involved Berkeley and pre-med. The whole point of my posting on these threads a couple months every year is to assist potential Berkeley students in making their decision and in advising potential pre-meds. Is it so wrong that I include my background under these circumstances?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You post your bio, you open the door to questions about your bio. That's why I don't post mine. I don't want to make my bio an issue (although I easily could), so I don't bring it up, even though it could have proved my point in many threads I've been in. If you don't want to make your bio an issue, then you shouldn't have posted yours. </p>
<p>
[quote]
5. So that's the Sakky Solution for California pre-meds huh? Go to a prestigious private school (even with the added costs) and change your state residency to up your odds of getting in if you don't feel that you'll be competitive at a UC school. That's just funny.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I didn't say that it was my "solution". I said that this was a reasonable interpretation of the evidence, and in particular, based on the evidence that YOU YOURSELF presented. After all, it was you who said that it was difficult for California state residents to get into their state med schools. I agree. Hence, it is entirely reasonable to think that some people would be better off if they changed state residency and get into another state med school. That's better than not getting in anywhere at all.</p>
<p>You also bring up the issue of money. What about it? Just because you go to an out-of-state undergrad program doesn't necessarily mean that you'll spend more money. That depends on whatever aid package you get, merit or need-based. I know people who are California state residents who actually spent LESS money to go to Harvard than to UC, because Harvard gave them full rides via financial aid, whereas UC wanted them to take out loans. Similarly, I know people who went to private schools on full merit rides that UC wouldn't give them. Hence, going out of state may actually be *cheaper *, depending on your personal circumstances.</p>
<p>We can explore this idea further. I know people from California who couldn't get into any of the UC med schools, but did get into the med schools of other states. It's certainly not easy to get into another state's med school if you're not a resident, but some people manage to do it. The problem is, they now have to pay out-of-state tuition at those med schools. However, if they had become residents of those other states, possibly by going there for undergrad, they would be paying in-state med-school tuition. So it's a wash.</p>
<p>The point is, you can go either way on the cost issue. For some people, UC is the cheap option. For other people, an out-of-state school is the cheap option. </p>
<p>
[quote]
6. So Stanford is secretive about its medical school placement rate......I'll trust my Stanford friends who say it's 75%, and you can keep it an "open question". Fair deal.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Fair enough.</p>