Berkeley vs Emory

College Search & Selection
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<p>Public Opinion - [Harvard</a> Number One University in Eyes of Public](<a href=“Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public”>Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public)</p>

<p>Question: All in all, what would you say is the best college or university in the United States?</p>

<p>Harvard University 24
Stanford University 11
Yale University 11
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) 6
University of California at Berkeley 4
Notre Dame University 4
Princeton University 4
University of Michigan 3
Duke University 3
University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) 3
University of Texas 2
Texas A&M University 2
Ohio State University 2
University of North Carolina 2
Penn State University 2
University of Pennsylvania (Penn) 2
University of Minnesota 1
Brown University 1
Cornell University 1
University of Virginia 1
Brigham Young University (BYU) 1
University of Tennessee 1
Michigan State University 1
Purdue University 1
University of Iowa 1
Georgetown University 1
University of Arizona 1
University of Southern California (USC) 1
Louisiana State University (LSU) 1
Indiana University 1
University of Washington 1
Columbia University 1
University of Wisconsin 1
Boston University 1
New York University 1</p>

<p>South
Harvard 18
Yale 10
Stanford 9
Duke 7
Texas A & M 7</p>

<p>West
Harvard 24
Stanford 19
Berkeley 11
Yale 9
MIT 7
UCLA 7</p>

<p>What about post-graduates themselves, who might be expected to know better than others what schools are prestigious, given that they applied to schools at least twice (for undergraduate and graduate work) and most likely spent a good deal of time evaluating schools? Here’s the list of schools most often mentioned by college graduates with at least some post-graduate education:</p>

<p>Harvard 29%
Stanford 27
Yale 14
MIT 11
Berkeley 7
Princeton 7
Michigan 7</p>

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<p>Honestly, RML, that survey is pretty crap. I think most people misunderstood the question and thought of only Universities, as if you look on that list, there is not a SINGLE “college” on there (granted, Harvard is technically a college). That list is so heavily biased towards large public schools that it’s pretty ridiculous. Williams, Amherst, Emory, and Vanderbilt don’t even appear. This goes back to the problem of how much the general public knows about smaller colleges.</p>

<p>Just because it’s not well-known doesn’t mean it’s not a good college with outstanding faculty. Recruiters (I pray to God) are more sensible than the general public so the list that you cited has basically no use at all (would they really recruit from Louisiana State rather than Williams or Amherst)?</p>

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<p>"What about post-graduates themselves, who might be expected to know better than others what schools are prestigious, given that they applied to schools at least twice (for undergraduate and graduate work) and most likely spent a good deal of time evaluating schools? Here’s the list of schools most often mentioned by college graduates with at least some post-graduate education:</p>

<p>Harvard 29%
Stanford 27
Yale 14
MIT 11
Berkeley 7
Princeton 7
Michigan 7"</p>

<p>These people seem to know which schools are the best of the best. ;-)</p>

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<p>[YouTube</a> - Fun at Emory](<a href=“Fun at Emory - YouTube”>Fun at Emory - YouTube)</p>

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<p>If you read a bit further down on the Gallups poll page, the survey was conducted over the telephone with around 1000 people. I know that Gallup polls have some of the most unbiased surveying methods out there but this is just a random sample of the population, even for the post-graduates. There is obviously a very large size bias problem going on here, because a student selected is much more likely to know/have applied to schools like HYPSM rather than schools like Williams or Amherst. There isn’t much that Gallup polls can do about this, but that means that we have to take these results with a grain of salt.</p>

<p>Also, the definition of the word “prestige” seems a bit mixed up here. The survey results also seem to be a bit confusing. How is Berkeley and Michigan even comparable to Princeton in terms of prestige? I know that only a very small portion of the total population was sampled, but this has resulted in fairly imbalanced results.</p>

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<p>"How is Berkeley and Michigan even comparable to Princeton in terms of prestige? "</p>

<p>Because there is more to a university or LAC than just it’s undergraduate perception. Berkeley and Michigan are known for their outstanding graduate programs. It’s funny how so many here at CC think that a universities reputation should solely based on how well they teach 18-22 year olds. The truly “great” universities on this planet, which of course would include Princeton, are stellar at the graduate level as well. Princeton’s only weakness in that type of survey is that it doesn’t have nearly as large of a graduate program than the other highly rated schools on that list. That it even makes this list is in itself a testament to it’s prestige.</p>

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<p>

Uh not exactly. Those reasons were all based on speculation. A better reason would be if MattLeinartFan chose Emory over other UCs because he liked the atmosphere and or it was cheaper for him, etc.</p>

<p>Emory is going through similar budget problems:
[Emory</a> and the Economy | Emory University | Atlanta, GA](<a href=“News | Emory University | Atlanta GA”>News | Emory University | Atlanta GA)</p>

<p>UC’s problems are more publicly touted…lending to an impression that the problem is worse for UC compared to other schools and universities.</p>

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<p>

Emory and Vandy are not small colleges. They are research universities and they are not small either. Both are bigger than Harvard, Yale, MIT, Princeton, Duke, Stanford, and Brown.</p>

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<p>I would hardly consider going to any of those schools. Maybe if none of the top research-led schools would accept me, I would attend Williams. But if I have an offer from Berkeley or Michigan (for CS which was my major), I’d pack my things and head to Berkeley or Michigan in a jiffy. I know some people prefer LACs. But just so other people would also know, there are plenty of smart people who prefer large, research-led universities, and I’m one of those many people.</p>

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<p>

Aside from the obvious reason that undergraduates typically far outnumber their graduate counterparts, it is probably because a good many graduate programs provide very little in the way of actual education. Students are expected to have already acquired an exceedingly firm foundation in their fields; the primary aim of graduate school is to help with the transition from learning to analysis and research, which truthfully is not that difficult. </p>

<p>Elite graduate programs expect their students to come in with all required courses, all relevant languages, all relevant experience, etc.; successful applicants at certain elite universities typically have a master’s from elsewhere. (For example, Berkeley can afford to admit/fund only 1 applicant out of 180+ in my field. It can be as picky as it wants.) Such students take a couple years of coursework in extraordinarily narrow seminars that do little to add to one’s general knowledge of the field (which generally comes from reading done outside class) and then tackle the dissertation as soon as possible. Many professors and programs have very little responsibility for the production of fine scholars; they simply admit the best applicants, provide them with the requisite resources, and let them find their way.</p>

<p>Undergraduate education, on the other hand, is quite different. You have students coming in with relatively little knowledge of their major fields, if indeed any at all. They have to be educated from the ground up, in a manner that encourages further exploration and deeper knowledge.</p>

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<p>warblers, I’m glad you brought up the issue of undergraduate teaching…
[Best</a> Colleges - Education - US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-ut-rank]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-ut-rank)</p>

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<p>This gay debate again with people too dumb to get into princeton when they were in high school and now wanna claim ivy league status based on teh rep of their uiversities graduate schools who are populated by guess what . . .ivy students</p>

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<p>RML… You’ve given me statistically insignificant figures. You’re so caught up “OMG there’s a number difference” that you haven’t actually stopped to analyze the numbers.</p>

<p>Ok… Public opinion is irrelevant, since people of the public are uninformed on academia and only know schools by name. For example: Many people know of Notre Dame. Few people know of Williams. Does that mean by polling the public, obviously Notre Dame is a better school? No. So polls don’t count.</p>

<p>Now… You’ve given me a 4.7 and a 4.0 on a scale of 1 to 5? That’s a difference of .07. There are 50 possible numbers. You have also given me number of 4.6 to 4.4. Again is a .02 difference. While the former may have statistical difference, the latter does not. </p>

<p>You also attempt to quote starting salaries. Let me think… Average cost of living in CA? Really expensive. Average cost of living in GA? Nowhere near as expensive. So you’ve successfully fallen prone to numbers again, without analyzing their meaning. If you actually look at cost of living and housing costs in GA compared to CA - Emory grads are making more money.</p>

<p>As for your comment of choosing any research university of any LAC. Well that’s just foolish. LACs send more students to top grad programs % wise than other top research universities. So you’re the only one who holds this opinion.
<a href=“http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf[/url]”>http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
As you can see, top LACs beat UC. Even Emory send a slightly higher percentage to grad schools, over UCB. Is this number statistically significant though? Probably not. </p>

<p>This is where you make your fatal flaw: You obsess over numbers, without reading into what they mean.</p>

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<p>RML skipped analytical thinking classes that he was supposed to take at his undergrad lol.</p>

<p>I was always itching to comment on the 0.X differences between peer reputation of schools but never bothered.</p>

<p>Anyways the public school mafia are here, and I dont wanna get snapped at so let me not bother</p>

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<p>Warblers: Thanks for quoting my horribly fractured sentence. I can’t believe I typed that!</p>

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<p>“How is Berkeley and Michigan even comparable to Princeton in terms of prestige?”</p>

<p>In some context (like assessing an university holistically, especially if size is an advantage, which it sometimes is), the better question would be how is Princeton comparable to Berkeley?</p>

<p>“RML skipped analytical thinking classes that he was supposed to take at his undergrad lol.”</p>

<p>Now I see why Cambridge is waging the “I’m so poor, give me more money” argument so often. I will have to say that the Ivies are dealing with their recent budget cuts way better, for they are just cutting back on stuff like limos during formals, bring in Lady Gaga, etc. Seems like Cambridge is coping with their financial problems by cutting back on teaching reasoning skills.</p>

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<p>This is a fun thread… Reminds me of my school debates “YOU’RE ARGUMENT IS INVALID DUE TO LACK OF EVIDENCE!” lol.</p>

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<p>.2 or .6 does not look significant, for sure. Well, if you look at it as a mere numerical figure. HOWEVER, that .2 or .6 was a survey conducted with participants of over 2,500 people. I’m not sure how the figures were converted from percentages to having a scale of 1 to 5 and vice versa, but I’m sure that if %tage was the one reflected on the table, the difference would look significant. In a scale of 1 to 5 with over 2,500 participants, an increment of .1 is significant. It is more than enough to topple a presidential candidate if this was a presidential race. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Let me repost this once again. It seems that you did not understand what you’re reading.</p>

<p>**What about post-graduates themselves, who might be expected to know better than others what schools are prestigious, given that they applied to schools at least twice (for undergraduate and graduate work) and most likely spent a good deal of time evaluating schools? Here’s the list of schools most often mentioned by college graduates with at least some post-graduate education:</p>

<p>Harvard 29%
Stanford 27
Yale 14
MIT 11
Berkeley 7
Princeton 7
Michigan 7**</p>

<p>Postgraduate students/grads are not just people, okay? LOL</p>

<p>

I find this a very poor argument. If jobs in Atlanta pay low, why not head to where the high-paying companies are? That’s what grads at top schools do. That’s what Duke and NDU grads, for example, do. Let’s take Dartmouth, a small Ivy school located in a NH, as an example. Why do you think Dartmouth grads make significantly more than Emory grads do? Do you think the companies in NH pay more than those companies in NY or California? If not then why is Dartmouth topping in almost every salary survey, including the school’s MBA program? So, clearly school location isn’t a heavy factor. Now, let’s take a look at Columbia. The school is located right in the heart of NY, a stone’s throw away from WS. I think no one would disagree with me that NYC, particularly, WS is the centre of banking and finance in the US, or the world. But why is Columbia trailing Dartmouth in the survey? Again, if school location was a huge a factor as you say, don’t you think Columbia should have been topping the salary scale survey? </p>

<p>

Foolish? Really? My personal preference is foolish? So, I should rather attend Amherst than Berkeley for computer science (my undergrad major) because going to Amherst would give me a leg up on CS grad school application? Really? Are you serious?</p>

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<p>0.7 Convert to percentages, multiply by 5. The difference comes up under 10%. Barely significant. 0.2 converted to percentages is 4%. Which is not statistically significant. As for my comment on public opinion, the first poll you noted was public only, meaning it’s irrelevant. As to the second pole you posted, graduate students typically know only those fields they are familiar with and will typically only list those schools that are (1) strong in their own area and (2) easily memorable. Again, polls are incorrect, since you want argue QUALITY. There’s a reason polls are generally not consider good sources. If you want to talk presidential polling, for example (since you brought it up) it doesn’t work. It’s erred in many ways. (1) Random selection doesn’t always work. (2) You may be asking the wrong people, etc. etc. etc. There are better grads programs than those you have listed. Your “polling” represents nothing but opinion. You want to argue facts, let’s argue STATISTICAL FACTS. Almost impossible to point out statistics with you.
As for your undergrad major, computer science never came up in this thread - since, well… Idk… The thread isn’t about you and your computer science? For grad school - business, med and law (the most popular grad schools) top LACs beat UCB.</p>

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<p>Again, these same people ALL over again. RML, rjkofnovi, and UCBChem. I’m so astonished Alexandre and lesdiablesbles isn’t here. I’m actually glad they aren’t. They were the smartest of the bunch anyway.</p>

<p>To OP and co: Don’t bother arguing with these people. They were HYPSM rejects. Not only that, they were lower Ivy+UofC+Duke+Caltech rejects as well. Maybe they got into Johns Hopkins and resolved to go to their state school to avoid the harsh cold of Baltimore.
These people are regretting their decision obviously because they wouldn’t be here defending their hurt egos and alma mater like little girls. And now they’re making statements like “How could you compare Princeton to Berkeley??” RML’s even called me a liar. What a cunning fellow. :o</p>

<p>Forget these foolish people. Just go with your heart. Emory and Berkeley are in the same league. Remember fit.</p>