<p>Hi, I am an international students accepted to UIUC's CS program. Considering if I am accepted to Berkeley's CS, under school of arts and science, which university should I choose? I know that Berkeley's CS program is more reputable than UIUC's (though not by much), I am leaning towards UIUC as I have heard many horror stories about Berkeley.</p>
<p>1.) I heard that most of those admitted to Berkeley's CS have more than 5 years of programming experience whereas I have only 2. Therefore, I am concerned that I might not be able to "catch up".
2.) Berkeley's CS program has more "smart" students than UIUC so, there is a chance that I might not get a high GPA (considering they bell curve, so your peers matter a lot)
3.) Berkeley's CS program has a much harder bell curve than UIUC's, causing many intelligent students getting a low GPA.</p>
<p>Thank you for taking the time to read my lengthily post. Any comments is welcomed.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be too worried about the qualms you have about berkeley. I think UIUC is good enough, as most likely the tuition might actually be a little bit less(not sure) there because you would be paying oos tuition for cal which would come out to be 60 k a year for more when both of the programs are good ones. I would also not risk my gpa just for cal if you are confident you would do better at UIUC</p>
<p>It sounds like your main negative reasons for Berkeley CS is because, more of less, of its rigor/curves. Not that that’s a bad thing - of course a high GPA is necessary for jobs, grad school, etc. However, there are ways of negotiating that risk (limiting how many CS classes you take each semester, especially in your first year or so, taking interesting classes for breadth requirements which may also serve to boost your GPA, etc.). Moreover, and more importantly, the job-related opportunities after you graduate are hard to beat here because of our proximity to the Silicon Valley and San Francisco.</p>
<p>Where have you heard any of these statistics? I don’t really believe they are true. And what bell curve? Teachers curve courses if they need to and by their own choice, not by a school standard (generally). I also don’t think you can say about how “smart” kids are at one school verse the other, because there is no way for you to know. </p>
<p>Both schools are going to be hard and competitive, they are top schools. Just pick the one you think will give you the best opportunities and, more so, the place you will enjoy being at for 4-5 years. By the way, you should worry about making the choice between the two if and when you get accepted to Berkeley.</p>
<p>I would believe some kids having that much programming experience but it would be a minority. Most kids who do programming have maybe <=2 years of experience before college.</p>
<p>I used to go to the top high school in Singapore. My seniors who attend berkeley tends to have a much better grade than those attending UIUC. Is this a coincidence?</p>
<p>Well I am pretty sure Berkeley has a lot more people applying there so you need higher grades to get admitted, but that doesn’t mean the programs are really harder. Lot’s of people like that school because it is in Cali and it is a good school. Obviously they have a great engineering college too but it doesn’t mean it is harder or easier than other schools. Difficulty depends on the person you talk to. </p>
<p>Anyways, again, just go where you like the most, given that you make it into Berkeley in the first place. You will have better weather out in Berkeley and the ability to go to some nice beaches if you make the trip to the shoreline, unlike UIUC which is in the middle of cornfields haha.</p>
<p>Nah, you will find that kids who you thought were smart because of their good stats will not always do well in college. High school is trivial, while college generally isn’t. Students who come in thinking they don’t have to do work to get good grades bomb, and that tends to be lots of students who had the high stats. </p>
<p>Look, you can succeed anywhere if you are passionate about what you are doing and manage your time well. Master the latter and I think you should get a good GPA regardless.</p>
<p>Why are you so worried about having peers who are smarter than you? You’ll find them at EVERY school, I guarantee it, and there will be a lot of them. </p>
<p>You can’t just choose a program because you think there’s a smaller population of smarter kids, that’s just dumb. I’m sorry, but I see a lot of international students worrying about trivial things and seem to only care about prestige and grades.</p>
<p>I definitely agree with pyro on all his statements. There is always people who will get close to 4.0s or something while most kids won’t. You can’t escape that anywhere. Go the program you will be happy with man, that’s what matters. One thing I can say about the faculty at UIUC for CS.</p>
<p>They are all extremely cool people, easy to approach and they often have lots of opportunities for undegrads that can help one’s resume for when Google, Facebook, Amazon etc visit UIUC. I was in class on Monday and they made a reference to Starcraft, haha.</p>
<p>I assume you have been admitted to UIUC’s CS program in the engineering college and not the one in LAS college.Berkeley also has CS in both its engineering and LAS college. The programs at both universities are highly regarded. You will not lose with either of them and both attract a lot of recruiting, although Berkeley has some edge for Silicon Valley.</p>
<p>You should not make the decision based on the list of horror stories you mention because they are just not true. Most freshman to Berkeley don’t have five years of programming experience nor is any required. Both have “smart” students. UIUC’s middle 50% range, rank and test scores, for freshman in engineering is usually top 9% to top 2% rank and 31-34 ACT which is at least comparable to Berkeley. I don’t know where you get the bell curve concept for either or that one curves higher than the other. My understanding is most curve at Berkeley. That cannot be said for UIUC where it really depends on each prof, some do, some don’t, some rather than a curve may do something like consider an A- as starting at 88 or 89 instead of higher, and often grades in CS and engineering courses are a combination of factors – tests, quizzes, and homework, with the last there to give you the opportunity to add points to your grade if you spend the time needed to do the homework. But with either college you cannot go in worrying whether the curve will be good enough.</p>
<p>Yes with an explanation. If you can get accepted to the program of either of them you are good enough to do well. How well students do is often a factor of forces other than the difficulty of the coursework. The greatest cause of bad grades, particularly in freshman year, of someone who is a top 10% high school student is the failure to do what is needed, which is attend class and do all the homework. Sounds easy but it can be real hard when you are thrown in with a lot of poeple your age, with no parental supervision, and with hundreds of things you can do that are fun other than your classwork. Show me a top student from high school that has those UIUC rank and test score ranges for engineering who gets lousy grades and most of the time you will find a student who skipped far too many classes, failed to do homework, fell far behind, tried to cram for tests, and had a lot of “fun” along the way.</p>
<p>1) 5 years of programming? O.O I really don’t think this is typical
2) Berkeley’s CS program doesn’t have more “Smart” students than UIUC, imo. They’re very close in intelligence. I would say Berkeley students may score slightly better, but it isn’t like your GPA will be a 4.0 at UIUC and a 2.0 at Berkeley…
3) I’m not sure of the validity of this either. I’m pretty sure they follow similar bell curves, which are rigorous at all top CS schools.</p>
<p>Don’t assume your GPA will be higher at UIUC
UIUC is very costly for internationals, it won’t be overwhelmingly cheaper than Berkeley, I believe.
Both programs are very difficult to be admitted to. You will do very well graduating from either school. Job placements are likely very similar from both.</p>