<p>o man hahah thanks for all the input...now im just more confused. o well we shall see..i have a while to wait anyway. anyone else deciding between the two?</p>
<p>Ooops, I mean UC Berkeley</p>
<p>Have you visited either campus? That's going to give you a lot of information right there. I would invest the money at this point to see both campuses if you haven't.</p>
<p>I don't think you can go wrong at either academically. You were good enough to get into Berkeley OOS and that probably means you'd do well there.</p>
<p>The real question is fit. You like the weather in SoCal more; if that's really importantant to you, go there.</p>
<p>I think it depends on what you want to major in, and what you think of the campuses and location, and whether you prefer northern CA or southern Ca. UCB is better overall academically based on its graduate programs but the difference isn't that great. You need to decide the "fit" thing.</p>
<p>choose UC Beijing (Berkeley) :Study with Robots if you happen to be admitted for CS&EE as in the end you are going to be competing to these personality not only form USA undergrad but also from ASIAN Universities (Where there are even extreem kind of Robots exists) and then in the actual work field.</p>
<p>So it is better to be prepared now than later but if it is college of letter and Science then you better get a more rounded experience at USC.</p>
<p>"I have lots of friends who have attened Berkeley. 99% of them are asian. One word: Robots."</p>
<p>You do know, right, that with your comments of "robots," you're insulting a good number of people, many of whom are here on these forums? And that that's against the rules here at CC?</p>
<p>Unless, of course, you are mean YOUR FRIENDS exclusively; otherwise, you should probably refrain from making "robot" comments about Asians (many can be sensitive to that).</p>
<p>
[quote]
1. For Computer Science or Electerical
If it CS&EE at Berkeley then it hands down beat USC as it is considered 2nd or 3rd in the world.
[/quote]
if almost exclusively for the fact that the classes are cutthroat and obscenely difficult. competitiveness does not necessarily equate with overall quality. USC is certainly no slack academically, but in my experience the academic experience has been extremely cooperative as opposed to competitive amongst all the students. even in the immensely rigorous Honors Physics track, students voluntarily spend hours in study groups working on problem sets. there's certainly very little idea of cutthroat here at USC, even in engineering. that and from what i could gather USC students tend to be far more well rounded than at other schools...almost none except the most studious seem to have a singular focus. it's very enlightening and encouraging to see it.</p>
<p>kyledavid80: You should not get offended by the term ROBOT. I don't think the intention was to point to the dumbness characteristic of ROBOT.
It was more to the perfection characteristic of ROBOT.
The environment at CAL is to do the things perfectly so it is a CUT Throat Competition that may or may not be healthy in someone view but the environment does promotoes monotonous environment that might become less human like and more Robot oriented.</p>
<p>First, Berkeley's not as crazy as some people make it out to be. Second, they are both fine schools and I'm sure you'll do great at either one. Visit both and ask alot of questions and make your decision based on fit. That said, you should go to Cal so you can know how good it feels when the bears whip the trojans in football next year.</p>
<p>
[quote]
That said, you should go to Cal so you can know how good it feels when the bears whip the trojans in football next year.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>We'll all be holding our breath for that one. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I'll start by admitting that as a Berkeley native, I'm biased in favor of Cal. I honestly think Cal's generally stronger, not taking personal fit into account. Of course, if you like USC better, go for it--the differences someone could list probably aren't enough to justify going to a school you like less.
But:
1. Berkeley has prestige. If you're planning on staying in the US, this isn't a significant reason to choose one over the other. If you're planning on working in another country, consider Berkeley much more seriously.
2. Berkeley offers more opportunities. CC seems to place a lot of emphasis on undergraduate focus, which is understandable, of course, because most of the members here are concerned with undergraduate education. Coupled with this is a strange love/hatred of large state schools. I'm not going to argue that Berkeley is a place where you'll be cuddled and led by the hand. It is, however, a place where you'll have more opportunities than at just about any school in the world (with a few exceptions) if you put the work in. Berkeley has amazing resources if you're willing to put in the effort. If you're not, then USC might be better.
I also think that Berkeley's "indifference" to undergraduates is exaggerated. Admittedly, introductory classes are large at Cal, but this isn't the case for the whole four years. Upper division courses are often a good size, no larger than comparable classes at other top "undergraduate-friendly" schools.
3. Berkeley's academics are stronger. Berkeley offers more majors, more courses, and generally stronger departments altogether. If you can "survive"--this refers mainly to impacted majors more than anything else--then Cal's academics are hard to beat.
4. I'd argue that Berkeley's location is better. This is, of course, subjective, and you shouldn't take this at face value. But it's hard to deny that Berkeley is more diverse and "happening" than USC's area of LA. The Bay Area is one of the most dynamic and exciting places in the world, and everything's very accessible in the
5. Berkeley is more diverse. Socioeconomically, mainly, but racially as well (an Asian plurality does NOT detract from this!).</p>
<p>Make your own choice though. If you like one school better than the other, don't let me dissuade you.</p>
<p>It'll happen. This is our year!!!!</p>
<p>"In terms of selectivity, USC has higher SAT scores then either UCLA or UCB (all w/ equal acceptance rates) - which certainly leads to some prestige for the undergraduate level. Generally, "strength of the student body" is USC's greatest asset."</p>
<p>USC computes its SAT's differently than UC Berkeley and UCLA. By mixing different scores from different test sessions USC inflates its numbers, and even with this inflating method of computation, USC's numbers are almost identitcal to Berkeley's without Berkeley mixing of test sessions. Furthermore, UC Berkeley, UCLA and UCSD all have higher average GPA's. </p>
<p>Academically: UC Berkeley>>>> USC</p>
<p>UC Berkeley is academically more prestigious than USC, period. Both at the undergrad and grad level (with the exception of film). This is common knowledge and not really debatable.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
5. Berkeley is more diverse. Socioeconomically, mainly, but racially as well (an Asian plurality does NOT detract from this!).
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>If by diverse you mean mostly asian and white kids from California then sure. </p>
<p>If you want a large international population, a diverse student body where 50% of the students aren't from California, a school that gives out the perhaps the most merit and financial aid (#1 in Pell Grants for private schools), then USC is easily more diverse than UC Berkeley.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
USC computes its SAT's differently than UC Berkeley and UCLA. By mixing different scores from different test sessions USC inflates its numbers, and even with this inflating method of computation, USC's numbers are almost identitcal to Berkeley's without Berkeley mixing of test sessions. Furthermore, UC Berkeley, UCLA and UCSD all have higher average GPA's.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>You point out that USC computes SAT scores differently, yet you fail to mention that UCs compute GPAs differently than USC. For UCs, you get extra points, with a maximum number of points, for taking Honors/AP classes after freshman year. USC, on the other hand, reports un-weighted GPAs. </p>
<p>And does the way the UC system computes the SATs really account for the difference in average scores between USC and UC Berkeley? Maybe a little, but I am not sure if it help that much. SAT scores, generally, shouldn't really change that much between the two methods.</p>
<p>I don't see why it matters whether a person is from California or not. How would that affect you?</p>
<p>USC:
* 1% American Indian/Alaskan Native
* 22% Asian/Pacific Islander
* 6% Black/Non-Hispanic
* 13% Hispanic
* 47% White/Non-Hispanic
* 9% Non-Resident Alien
* 2% Race/ethnicity unreported</p>
<p>Berkeley:</p>
<h1>1% American Indian/Alaskan Native</h1>
<h1>46% Asian/Pacific Islander</h1>
<h1>4% Black/Non-Hispanic</h1>
<h1>12% Hispanic</h1>
<h1>29% White/Non-Hispanic</h1>
<h1>2% Non-Resident Alien</h1>
<h1>7% Race/ethnicity unreported</h1>
<p>White is to USC as Asian is to Berkeley. Otherwise, the stats are virtually identical.</p>
<p>"USC, on the other hand, reports un-weighted GPAs."</p>
<p>What's your source on this? From collegeboard:</p>
<pre><code>* 90% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
* 8% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
* 2% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
</code></pre>
<p>I find it hard to believe they can maintain those stats without reporting weighted GPAs.</p>
<p>"SAT scores, generally, shouldn't really change that much between the two methods."</p>
<p>Why would you think that? Source? They would change significantly, I think. From collegeboard's official study guide:</p>
<p>
[quote]
One out of every two high school students taking the SAT takes it at least twice--typically in the spring of the junior year and in the fall of the senior year
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Since 2 million students take the SAT each year, that's 1 million retaking it. Also, when you consider the two common dates of taking it (spring and fall), that leaves the summer for studying, and thus the scores should, ideally, be a bit higher. Now, if USC superscores, whereas Berkeley just takes the best sitting, I can see a more-than-minor difference cropping up.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
Academically: UC Berkeley>>>> USC</p>
<p>UC Berkeley is academically more prestigious than USC, period. Both at the undergrad and grad level (with the exception of film). This is common knowledge and not really debatable.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>As pointed out earlier in the thread, UC Berkeley is clearly better at the graduate level. But how is it that much better at the undergrad level? </p>
<p>According to US News, USC is ranked 27th in the country for undergrad, while UC Berkeley is ranked 20th. UC Berkeley is ranked higher despite USC having the advantage in many categories.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
What's your source on this? From collegeboard:</p>
<ul>
<li>90% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher</li>
<li>8% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74</li>
<li>2% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49</li>
</ul>
<p>I find it hard to believe they can maintain those stats without reporting weighted GPAs.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>As someone that applied to UC schools and as a California resident, I would like to think I know how UCs calculate GPAs.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
I don't see why it matters whether a person is from California or not. How would that affect you?
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>If you think geographic diversity isn't important then I don't know what to tell you.</p>
<p>From the statistics you posted, USC has a higher international population. Also, the asian majority does make a difference. As an Asian-American growing up in a community with highschools that were 70% Asian, I certainly prefer to go to a school where the racial make-up resembles the real world rather than a bubble community.</p>