<p>It couldn't have anything to do with recruiting, and scholarships, could it?</p>
<p>Well if it does have to do with scholarships, then that's even better, because internationals can only get merit-based aid, meaning that they're at the very top of the university (among both domestic and international)</p>
<p>I don't know about other countries but I can tell you that in India, Berkeley's reputation dwarfs USC's. It's not even remotely close.</p>
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now, why would USC have more international students than any other university (even the ivy's)? Of course it couldn't possibly have anything to do with USC's reputation being strong internationally, right?
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<p>Maybe because more internationals are admitted? I bet you UC Berkeley could easily fill its entire undergrad population of 23,000 with internationals if it really wanted to. But its goal is to serve Californians so it admits fewer internationals. Same goes with other UCs. Just because you admit more internationals to your school means little.</p>
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Well if it does have to do with scholarships, then that's even better, because internationals can only get merit-based aid, meaning that they're at the very top of the university (among both domestic and international)
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<p>But this thread is called "Berkeley vs. USC." So how do USC's internationals stack up against USC's internationals? Until we can get some kind of data on this, how USC's internationals stack up against its own students is irrelevant.</p>
<p>There are about 15 universities worldwide that go by the acronym USC.
There is only one Berkeley, and it is one of a kind. :rolleyes:</p>
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wasn't it you who came into CC clueless about USC's reputation not more than a month and a half ago, and now youre an expert on it? i think you're just being influenced by the prestige-fixated CCers. so please substantiate your claim that USC is a "fall back" for applicants "not smart enough" for Berkeley (and those are harsh but hollow words)...when the average SAT of USC freshmen is higher than that of Berkeley freshmen and their acceptance rates are exactly the same.
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<p>phobos,</p>
<p>I read and compared all the comments here at CC. I also listened to people who have ideas about the 2 said schools. I asked some professors. I combined all those things and I came up with these conclusion:</p>
<p>USC, when compared to UCLA, UCLA is more popular among California residents, both in the undergrad and grad levels. However, USC is a little more "prestigious" than UCLA in the whole USA, for undergrad. For grad level, UCLA is more prestigious, except for Film studies. Internationally, UCLA is ahead by a wide distance.</p>
<p>USC, when compared to UC Berkeley for UNDERGRAD (among California residents), Berkeley, wins hands down. But if we increase the area of the scope and include all US states, the gap narrows. Seems USC's undergrad is "prestigious" too but not yet in the league of the BESTs, but almost there already and still moving upwards. </p>
<p>USC compared to Berkeley for GRAD level, this is like comparing a Toyota Altis to a Rolce Roys. For GRAD level, they don't belong in the same league. </p>
<p>Feel free to correct me though.</p>
<p>Flopsy, what about Berkeley College, Berkeley City College, Berkeley College of New York City?</p>
<p>And, when spoken orally, I'm more likely to think of Berklee College of Music than UC-Berkeley.</p>
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Feel free to correct me though.
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give me more than anecdotal evidence for claims that you appear to make quantitative.</p>
<p>and the circumstances under which you came upon such said "knowledge": you were completely clueless about not more than a month and a half ago--and now you count yourself among the experts, you don't live in California (i have for 18 years...) and yet consider yourself an authority on it. granted, you weren't horribly off in your opinion, but the idea that, again, you had no idea about things like this before and now can speak so "authoritatively" automatically brings to question your conclusions.</p>
<p>and the last thing...prestige isn't everything, or close to it. so far this is your only basis for argument, and last i checked this thread wasn't about prestige. this thread did ask for what the schools were like, and that's what i spend the majority of my post talking about. a huge part of college is about the experience: social, academic, cultural, etc. IMO, when you only consider one aspect of it, you set yourself up for a less than enjoyable college experience. if prestige your main consideration for choosing a college (as it seems so far), you should re-evaluate your criteria.</p>
<p>UCB just for the price tag. It's like getting the same pizza for a cheaper price.</p>
<p>USC is better than Cal by a ratio of 2.5 to 1. =D.</p>
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and the last thing...prestige isn't everything, or close to it. so far this is your only basis for argument, and last i checked this thread wasn't about prestige.
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<p>Then, I would argue for its excellent staff and professors, many of whom have produced outstanding research and are at the top of their fields (nice people too). I would argue for the vast amounts of resources available to students, research opportunities, networking opportunities, top undergrad programs like Haas or engineering. I would argue for the more marketable degree that will probably get you farther towards getting a job. I would argue for some of the brightest students you will ever encounter, or the vibrant surrounding city. Or how about the wealth of student groups, activities, campus events, performances, that inevitably comes from having such a large student population, and a rich history and traditions that you can take pride in.</p>
<p>Not to say that USC lacks any of these, just that I believe Berkeley offers them to a greater degree. To be fair, USC also trumps Berkeley in a few items, such as more freedom in majors, less issues with homeless, better weather, probably better housing, but it seems to me like they are far from outweighing Berkeley's strengths.</p>
<p>Notice that most people arguing for USC in this thread are USC students themselves (jbusc, phobos). I'll let the reader decide which program is stronger.</p>
<p>well, i'll be honest, i realize that at a place like CC USC's academic reputation is less than stellar, so we have more to prove. if we weren't around to post (;)), a great school like USC would be unfairly demoted to the point where people would cease to consider going there.</p>
<p>a lot of what you said about Berkeley can be readily applied to USC, if not more relevant. they say in California, a degree from USC is a golden ticket in networking, all for the sake of the "Trojan Family." the alumni network is renowned for its pride and strong connection to the school long after they graduate.</p>
<p>student groups...USC has something along the lines of 600 student-run organizations, a number which i'm sure has few rivals at others schools. Berkeley might have more, but i doubt it would be significantly more. campus events and performances...free concerts from what is widely regarded as one of the best music programs in the nation, a coffee shop on campus that draws indie/alternative acts week after week for free, not to mention large Programming Board concerts and activities, speaking events from people that have made a huge cultural impact. (just recently, USC instated Visions and Voices, which brings world renowned people to lecture, artists to perform, etc.) </p>
<p>USC wasn't started long after Cal, and the traditions here are rich and numerous...to say that USC has more/richer traditions than Cal would be impossible, as it would be to admit USC has fewer.</p>
<p>you know, some things you just can't quantify...</p>
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well, i'll be honest, i realize that at a place like CC USC's academic reputation is less than stellar, so we have more to prove. if we weren't around to post (), a great school like USC would be unfairly demoted to the point where people would cease to consider going there.
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<p>And you think Berkeley is regarded here very highly?? It gets bashed here all the time. Sheshhh.... Some people here even invented stories to make Berkeley appear that it is not a great school. </p>
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a lot of what you said about Berkeley can be readily applied to USC, if not more relevant. they say in California, a degree from USC is a golden ticket in networking, all for the sake of the "Trojan Family." the alumni network is renowned for its pride and strong connection to the school long after they graduate.
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<p>Yes, BUT i did clearly emphasize in my post that INTERNATIONALLY, Berkeley's name holds more weight that USC. </p>
<p>If connection is what you after, Berkeley alumni wouldn't surely dissappoint you. I'm not sure about USC because I have not known any alumni organization of USC that is based here in Asia. </p>
<p>In the Philippines for example, no less than the first child of the PRESIDENT of the Philippines who heads the Berkeley alumni association. Amongst its members are some of the wealthiest and most successful people in this country. USC has no such kind of gathering here. Harvard, Yale, LSE, Oxbridge, Wharton and Stanford has. (My dad is an active member of the Stanford alumni association in our country) Trust me, USC is not well-known here or in some parts of Asia where I have been to.</p>