Berkeley vs Yale

<p>Ok, whatever you say man. Just elaborate on how the OPs life will transform from the average joe to a CS superstar if he attends Berkeley over Yale. We do know that all CS majors are IT/Software stars at Berkeley.</p>

<p>No need to shout, I dont want you to burst an artery. That would make me feel very bad.</p>

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<p>But the question- why do you think Yale engineering is not so great? Have you ever been to their department? Apart from glossing through ranking sites, do you know anything about the program? Except reputation- one that yale has been unable to build for several reasons I hope you are at least aware off.</p>

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So??? Do you think that makes it an attractive school to the sight of top employers?</p>

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You are a big joker, sefago. lol… let’s rely on USNews for a while to make this debate easy for you. Help yourself : [College</a> Rankings | Best Colleges | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings]College”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings) </p>

<p>Here are some which might interest you too:
[Google-based</a> Ranking of Computer Science and Engineering Departments](<a href=“http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~remzi/rank.html]Google-based”>Google-based Ranking of Computer Science and Engineering Departments)
[Best</a> Careers 2011: Computer Software Engineer - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2010/12/06/best-careers-2011-computer-software-engineer]Best”>http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2010/12/06/best-careers-2011-computer-software-engineer)
<a href=“https://secure.usnews.com/premium/compass-login.jsp?referer=http://premium.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-computer-science-schools/rankings[/url]”>https://secure.usnews.com/premium/compass-login.jsp?referer=http://premium.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-computer-science-schools/rankings&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Look where Yale stands against Berkeley for CS.</p>

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LOL… Admit it that you can’t win in this debate! I have a feelig you only post to annoy me. Or, maybe just so people here would think you know something about this topic. lol</p>

<p>Yale is a phenomenal university. I have to admit it that it is a solid top 10 universities in the world. But we also have to admit it that it is not great for all the major fields they offer. WhileYale would be great for those who intend to join in a career in politics, government, wall street, banking and finance, it is NOT the best venue to have a training in computer science or any engineering field for that matter. Engineering, IT and technology are the waterloo of Yale. It is still quite good on those areas, but there are obviously a few schools that are just better… and Berkeley is one of those schools, along with MIT, Stanford and Caltech.</p>

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<p>No it shows that it would likely not have the number of superstars you are claiming</p>

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<p>Wow, quite scientific. Probably the best way to judge a computer science department. LOL</p>

<p>RML stop joking around, because I honestly think you must be lol- can you show me how berkeley is better than yale for CS? Like based on real things like academics and opportunities not webometrics.</p>

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<p>Refer to my post 18. I see no mention of where you went to undergrad affecting your job opportunities as long as that program provides the prerequisite skills.</p>

<p>Can you show me how Yale is deficient in preparing their students in these areas? Of course apart from webometric rankings.</p>

<p>[Best</a> Careers 2011: Computer Software Engineer - US News and World Report](<a href=“Best Careers and Career Opportunities | US News”>http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2010/12/06/best-careers-2011-computer-software-engineer)</p>

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<p>I think a bit better than Berkeley stands compared to Yale on USNWR.</p>

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<p>Well tbh, I was going to post before you even saw the thread. Decided not to. Personally I only post on threads that really have to do with people claiming that departmental rankings are more important that overall university or that schools that lack renowned departments do not offer the same standard of education as those who have large and famous graduate departments but average students too daft to understand difficult material.</p>

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<p>Engineering yes, CS no. See the problem is that the difference between a top 20 departments is really not that significant. Its like a couple of 0.x or maybe 1. If you dont find it interesting that a Top 20 department has only 14 students and is capable of lavishing its attention on these 14 students then wow.</p>

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<p>And you know this because . . .</p>

<p>PS: I am not trying to win anything.</p>

<p>Computer science and engineering are very different IMO and there is good reason why I might not consider Yale a great place for engineering but still a very good place for CS</p>

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<p>The gap between Harvard and Yale for CS is really nonexistent if you are going to even use departmental ranking/reputation. I think the only reason you think Harvard might be better is that you might know/met a larger number of Harvard CS majors. Because all this claims you are making dont even make sense. Smaller department does not mean bad department ok?</p>

<p>Could I get another LOL</p>

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<p>Refer to post #27. Harvards CS reputation to academics is not that far ahead compared to Yale. Infact they are the nearly the same lol</p>

<p><a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/computer-science-rankings[/url]”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/computer-science-rankings&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Following from your advise we know which one the OP should choose. Seems you should have stopped posting a long tym ago.</p>

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<p>That depends on how you measure the pond. Berkeley has more students, that’s for sure. The vast majority of them are Californians; probably a plurality of those are Asian Americans (many of them first gens) from several counties surrounding San Francisco. In contrast, Yale attracts the best and brightest from all over the USA and the world. It provides undergraduates an intimate, hothouse environment for spawning ideas and turning them into reality.</p>

<p>An example of one such idea in the Information Technology realm is the problem of searching maps, which two Yale graduates (along with a McGill alumnus) turned into a successful company called MetaCarta :
[MetaCarta</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaCarta]MetaCarta”>MetaCarta - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>Yale graduates John Frank (a physicist) and the late Eric Rauch (a biophysicist and theoretical ecologist) co-founded MetaCarta with McGill graduate Doug Brenhouse (a mechanical engineer).
[Erik</a> Rauch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Rauch]Erik”>Erik Rauch - Wikipedia)
<a href=“http://www.metacarta.com/Collateral/Documents/English-US/MetaCarta_article_Red_Herring.pdf[/url]”>http://www.metacarta.com/Collateral/Documents/English-US/MetaCarta_article_Red_Herring.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>(note that Eric Rauch’s mentor at Yale was the late, great mathematician Benoit Mandelbrot, inventor of fractal geometry)</p>

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<p>Hundreds of institutions can help you develop these skills. The ACM establishes clear undergraduate curriculum standards for Computer Science ([Curricula</a> Recommendations - Association for Computing Machinery](<a href=“http://www.acm.org/education/curricula-recommendations]Curricula”>Curricula Recommendations)). Colleges much less selective and prestigious than Yale or Berkeley follow those standards (more or less). However, the Big Ideas in Information Technology (like the problem of searching maps) are not bounded by programming skills. They exist in a space that is shared by Computer Science, Physics, Mathematics, any number of liberal arts disciplines (Geography, even), and everyday practical problems.</p>

<p>If you want to swim in that big space, Yale is a good choice. If you want to become an excellent computer programmer, Berkeley is a good choice (a cheaper one at that, if you are full-paying, and with proximity to major IT employers).</p>

<p>The prestige whores are out in full force, I see.</p>

<p>If you’re absolutely certain comp sci is the field for you, go to Berkeley.</p>

<p>^^^Absolutely!</p>

<p>^^uh, not really. I’ve been accused of being one of Cal’s biggest boosters, and drinking the Blue and Gold koolaid, but this one is the simplest no-brainer on cc: Yale. (Heck, in ~95% of the students, Y will be cheaper out-of-pocket than Cal will be at instate rates.)</p>

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<p>My argument for Yale is not based on its prestige (except indirectly, because that prestige does attract money and brains). What I’m saying, again, is that over the course of your whole career (and even early in the career of an IT entrepreneur) it is not technical skills that will push you past a certain plateau of salary and influence. You need an additional set of skills to learn to frame a big problem well, then convince investors and other stakeholders to address it. Yale, it seems to me, provides a better environment for developing those skills (in addition to a much more than adequate environment to develop your technical skills). </p>

<p>Of course, movers and shakers (big thinkers, too) do come out of major state universities as well. Bill Joy and Larry Page (Michigan), Mark Adreessen (Illinois), and Sergey Brinn (Maryland) are all famous examples. Nobody has locked down the formula for educating the next big inventor of the next big thing.</p>

<p>P.S. Perhaps, the 'hoes need to look within. The ONLY reason folks are recommending Cal is due to it’s prestige in CS (and engineering). :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>The idea that someone might be more interested in becoming very good at something than in networking opportunities seems to be completely alien to you.</p>

<p>Check out the comments of comp science majors who actually go to Yale. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/yale-university/1078180-yale-sciences-technology.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/yale-university/1078180-yale-sciences-technology.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>If you want to argue that Berkeley CS is better ranked at the GRADUATE level, you might as well argue that Harvad CS is average at best. And this is the same department that has helped to educate the likes of Bill Gates and Mark Zukerberg (until they dropped out.)</p>

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<p>And how exactly does a BS in CS at Yale prevent this? Apart of course from graduate reputation</p>

<p>There is no evidence that Yale CS is inferior at the undergraduate level to Berkeley especially for an ambitious student. With such a small number of student and a top 20 faculty I could imagine the opportunities available to him might surpass that at Berkeley.</p>

<p>“Perhaps, the 'hoes need to look within. The ONLY reason folks are recommending Cal is due to it’s prestige in CS (and engineering).”</p>

<p>I guess you’re right. Prestige is determined by many here on CC as to who your academic peers are and not as much based on departmental quality. To each his own I suppose.</p>

<p>Because there is no such thing as departmental quality. Only departmental prestige as a result of graduate rankings.</p>

<p>Quality is based on the education and research opportunities you receive at a university. I find it hard to believe that Berkeley provides more. No one has been able to prove that . All I got was a lousy webometrics ranking by UWisconsin that was on the verge of the elementary school rant " Who is more popular me or them"</p>

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<p>Your remark suggests you are more interested in polemics than in a give-and-take discussion of the OP’s choices. But I agree, of course, that technical skills are extremely important in the IT marketplace. Good programmers are paid well; some people find the work very satisfying. Berkeley is an excellent school to develop these skills. So is Yale (see 1234d’s post).</p>

<p>On the other hand, liberally educated people who can frame new problems will tend to be paid even more. They perceive a need, imagine a solution, then turn the implementation over to people who work for them. Yes, it takes “networking” to marry the vision to the money and the engineering. I think it takes effort as well as opportunities to become very good at that.</p>

<p>We have not talked much about academic careers. Perhaps that is where the OP’s real interests lie. Berkeley is a huge research powerhouse. So maybe someone can speak knowledgeably about how undergraduates participate in that activity. According to Washington Monthly, among national universities Yale ranks 3rd and Berkeley 16th in Bachelor-to-PhD production overall. For CS and Math Bachelor-to-PhD production, according to a NSF database covering 1994-2003, Yale ranked 12th and Berkeley 27th among LACs and universities combined. I would not base my choice very heavily on this one metric, but it does seem to suggest that Yale is not likely to hold you back from becoming very good in this area.
(<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/60986-phd-production-math-computer-science.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/60986-phd-production-math-computer-science.html&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>From my perspective as a CS major at a top CS school soon to attend a top CS program for PhD: go to Yale. The ranking of CS departments can have a significant bearing on the undergrad quality of CS, but there are additional factors you need to take into consideration here. For undergrad what matters most is your actual experience. So look at: diversity of classes (Berkeley has the edge), top faculty (Berkeley), research opportunities (Berkeley), internships (Berkeley), etc. </p>

<p>But what is the point in any of that if you’re competing so heavily with thousands of other students? Yale is smaller and while it might not have the resources in CS that Berkeley, it doesn’t spread itself so thin. Consider another important fact here: Berkeley is going through significant trouble with funding with no end in sight, whereas Yale has no problem with it and continues to expand heavily (capital improvement, faculty hiring, internships, Science Hill, etc.). Classes at Berkeley have been cut, majors have been cut, etc. Not to mention it can be very difficult to get into classes you want, even the classes you need to graduate; the professors are more concerned with doing research with graduate students than they are with undergrads; and so on. Now consider perhaps the most important point here, that at Berkeley, you can intend on doing CS, do the CS prereqs, and then get denied entry to the major. This will not happen at Yale. And even if you do get into the major, let’s say you want to go to grad school; good luck getting in when your GPA is horrible and you barely have any research experience or strong recommendations because it was difficult to get involved with professors long-term. (By comparison, grad schools won’t care that you didn’t study under Turing Award winners; that you did research is what matters, even if it’s Yale CS.) Berkeley’s also experiencing an exodus of faculty, and has been for years; this is only going to get worse with its funding problems.</p>

<p>Let’s say you get into the CS major but decide you want to switch to EE or psychology or another; good luck trying to change it, since impacted majors are a real problem, whereas at Yale you can change it as much as you want, no problem. Believe me, your overall undergrad experience is far more important than a departmental ranking, and it’s especially true here: Berkeley has a great departmental ranking, but its undergrad experience in CS is poor compared to that of Yale CS. And let’s not forget that Yale CS may not be one of the best, but it’s decent.</p>

<p>This isn’t even taking into consideration other very important aspects of undergraduate life–advising, study abroad, funding in student activities, etc. Yale wins there hands down. These will be more important than they seem now.</p>

<p>To me it seems those who are championing Berkeley are more likely to be prestige-whores here over CS rankings, because in light of all the above, Berkeley is really not the better option.</p>

<p>Anecdotal evidence: I know of quite a few renowned CS people who did their undergrad in CS at Yale. Consider that Yale CS has also improved significantly since then. Yale CS will not doom you–far from it. It’s just a much surer bet to go to Yale and do well in CS there than to go to Berkeley and do poorly.</p>

<p>Just take a few looks at the Berkeley board; everyone there just complains and hates on their own school. It’s very telling.</p>

<p>(If this were a grad school discussion, I would tell you Berkeley, hands down, no contest.)</p>