Berkeley

Parents Forum
1

<p>I just received an email from a close friend, whose son is going to UC Berkeley. I was very dissapointed to learn of what goes on in the dorms. I am not naive. I do realize that college students drink, and some even do drugs. However, what he describes is very discouraging. I will cut and paste his comments below. I changed his son's name, so as to protect his privacy. I would sure hope that someone at Berkeley reads this, and passes on a recommendation to the dorm staff, to clean up their act. This is no hoax. For what it is worth, my son has applied to Berkeley. He received an email recently that they are "processing" his application. I have been hopeful since he applied, that he might get accepted. I am having second thoughts, if this is what is allowed to go on at Berkeley.</p>

<p>Here is the comments from my friend.</p>

<p>John just finished his first semester at Berkeley. It's too early to form an opinion of the educational experience, but the dorm experience was a big letdown. Both of John's roommates were total party animals. They get drunk every night, smoke dope, and even deal drugs out of the dorm. One of the boys dropped out of several classes, and the other one is barely hanging on. John is strong enough to keep his distance from them, but my wife and I are just dumbfounded that these jerks could even get into Berkeley. There's obviously some other factor that determines who gets in and who gets rejected. John thinks that he's the only guy on his dorm floor that doesn't drink.</p>

2

<p>drinking and partying is a common occurence at almost every american college. yes even at ivy league colleges. smoking dope and dealing drugs is much more rare, but it happens. i think John's case is probably an exception (having drug dealing roommates), but partying is not. i also think that even if John went to another "academically-stronger" college, he'll still find a lot of partying, although perhaps not as hardcore but still enough to get the feeling that some people are "total party animals." </p>

<p>finally, i think that yes, sometimes some people who get in might not have deserved to get in, but also, some people who got in really deserved to get in based on their credentials, but have different priorities once they get to college and decide to party. </p>

<p>overall, i think the description of berkeley here could've been a case at many other colleges, and i think it is unfair to say that this is what primarily happens at berkeley (and not elsewhere).</p>

3

<p>That's not nearly as bad as you made it out to be...he just needs a roommate change. Or maybe you should ship him off to UChicago.</p>

4

<p>I have heard the same from my kid's friends parents regarding other UCs, Ivies, community colleges, etc. My D, at Berkeley, has two roommates who do not drink at all. I would highly recommend a change of roommates for your friend's son. A friend at another big public said her son saw many kids crash and burn that first year out from under Mom & Dad's watchful eye, in many cases it was the kids you would never expect who went wild and could not get back in control.</p>

5

<p>Berkeley may even have a substance-free dorm or floor. Worth looking into for next year.</p>

6

<p>i believe all uc's are already substance free</p>

7

<p>If they are "already" substance free, then the policy is meaningless - if John's experience occurred. For what it is worth, and as I already noted, and apparently some didn't bother to read before they made their caustic remarks, I am not naive. I lived in dorms 30 years ago, when I was first in college. Yes, there was drinking. Yes, there was drugs. But it was not as rampant as has been described to me by my friend, about his son at Berkeley. Lest you think "he" is naive, he lived during the 60's and 70's in San Francisco. He had a pony tail halfway down his back. Need i say more? However, what you so quickly discount, is that when a parent who is paying over $20,000 per year for their son to go to what is considered one of the best universities in the country, and his son ends up having unbelievable challenges just finding an opportunity to study in his own room - for which he is paying large sums of money, then the system is broke at Berkeley. You can say all you want about it being an "exception". He tried to get a room change, and to no avail. Geez, you guys sure "know it all" don't you. Rather than show concern for his son's situation, all you can do is criticise him, or his son. Is there a point, ever, when the University is somehow held accountable for the environment, since they are the ones charging over $20,000 for the tuiton, room, and board? Or is it always the student's fault. Let me see if I undertand things, this nice kid, who earned great grades in high school, and scored high on test scores so that he would be accepted into CAL, simply wants to study and get an education, and when his roomates want to be jerks, it is somehow his fault, and it is his responsibility to get a room change. Makes perfect sense to me.</p>

8

<p>No one said it's the kid's fault.</p>

<p>If the kid really wants to solve the problem, I suggest that he call the cops to report the drug dealing. That won't win him any friends ... but if he doesn't do that, I'd suggest that he move out of that room, no matter whose "fault" it is, because if and when the cops do come in and search, they may end up arresting everyone who lives there. </p>

<p>There are many different dorms and off-campus housing options available in Berkeley. This is a great time of year to find housing, unlike September. </p>

<p>Kids have roommate problems everywhere. Some are worse than others - but the bottom line is that it is the luck of the draw -- and people who do not like a situation can either wallow in self-pity and anger and blame, or get proactive and make a change. It is true that it may result in an unfair financial loss -- but that is part of life, too. </p>

<p>And FWIW, when I was in college in the 70's, our dorm had its own in-house dope dealers, too -- and partying all night long. I was a mere waif of 16, but somehow before the end of the year I had mastered the art of musical rooms, and while my dorm contract said I still lived in room 512 I slept happily every night in room 416. On the other hand... my parents never, ever had the slightest clue what was going on -- I just made sure to back in the old room every Sunday night at 7 to receive the parental telephone call.</p>

9

<p>The college scene is crazy all over. Read Tom Wolfe's recent novel, "I Am Charlotte Simmons" for the gory details.</p>

<p>My daughter goes to an Ivy League school, and many of her friends back home also attend "prestigious" colleges. Today she told me that five of her seven roommates at college smoke, and that in the mixed group she hangs around with at home, nearly all, guys and girls, have taken up smoking. I was flabbergasted. I know that some girls think it will help them keep weight off, but what she described went beyond that. I don't know what to conclude (and would love to hear comments) except that perhaps the lifestyles of most of us parents -- careful, bookish, healthy, quiet liberals -- just appear way too dull and boring, and that the kids are seeking edgier alternatives.</p>

10

<p>you might read what some other students post about their life at some of the Ivies - seriously-</p>

<p>So he tried to get a room change and that hasn't been successful, but howabout mediation with his roommates?
no matter what they are paying- it is still a state school, and frankly public schools don't have the resources that privates do ( for housing support generally anyway)
I hear that your friend is freaked out and frustrated- but I am not in the dorm- so I can't say exactly what went on.
I can say that it reminds me of the blind men and the elephant.
Yes it is unfortunate that the roommate matching wasn't a better fit.
But again, public schools often dont have much room at all- my nephew at Boulder didn't even have a room although they guarenteed him one & he ended up sleeping with one of his professors until some space opened up mid year.
At UW they have made 2-bed dorms into 3 bed dorms- same with Western Wa in Bellingham.
Contrast that with my daughters college in Portland. She had a single room for three years- even though she didn't request it. the room is nice and this year she is in a two bedroom townhouse- two floors- two bathrooms and it is student housing. Big difference from only getting housing freshman year and then you are on your own.
However- there is drinking at any college- and even smoking pot- one of the dorms at Reed has a hookah on the porch-
but it really isn't a concern- all the kids I have met are great, very respectful of others tolerance levels, and I have even been very comfortable leaving my younger daughter there for visits over the last few years. But for instance others might get a very different idea of what it is like. a friends son- when he visited was in a dorm that was having a small party and they rolled him and the other visiting student a beer- that was enough for him to not even want to apply- even though his dad thought he was overreacting.</p>

<p>I think it is really doing Berkeley a disservice to imply that it is their fault- these students are adults- and if they don't want to act like adults, then they get help from an RA or they move, or they do something-else.
Its not going to be the first time roommates didn't get along- but learning to deal with it-is part of growing up</p>

11

<p>Since the Dorms at most UCs are for freshmen and a few lucky sophmores, no one should be drinking as they are under 21. It does happen. No one is allowed to smoke in UC dorms or inside any public buildings in CA but the substance free dorms are a little more rigorous and I believe some have rules /contracts that will remove a student who is found drunk or drugged. Some dorms also have extended quiet hours which pushes the party to some other place. It also helps some students avoid roomates who come in stinking of smoke. I wonder if a school has ever been sued because they failed to provide a safe room mate situation. My D is considering being an RA but doesn't want to deal with some of the out of control kids in the other dorms.</p>

12

<p>lovetocamp---I can attest to the same stories and worse coming out of Cal. As a California taxpayer, it makes me sick. We told our four kids---no apps to Cal. Period. And yes, I read I am Charlotte Simmons, and similar stuff happens at private colleges. But we as parents do not need to throw our children to the wolves. If I were this kids' parents, I'd have him transfer out asap. And yes it is Berkeley's fault.</p>

13

<br>


<br>

<p>I have a lot of sympathy for the kid. I found myself the lone straight shooter in a suite of dopers back in my college days. But, on the other hand, the days of colleges acting in loco parentis are over. And I don't think that the amount they are charging increases or decreases their responsibility in any way.</p>

<br>


<br>

<p>In a way it's a self-limiting problem. Berkeley is a pretty demanding school. It doesn't sound to me like these two losers will last very much longer.</p>

14

<p>Ok they are substance free, at UCR all they have is an RA that comes around 10-11 to do a quick 20 sec check of everything. Substance free doesnt mean anything, if they want to drink they will drink. If they have an overly obsesive RA that patrols the floors, then you go out to a party, a rush party or whatever else. Its not hard at all. People smoke weed on occasion, every school has that. Talking about sex is very big among most girls. I have seen the progression of those that werent even interested wanting to wait till marriage to ending no longer a virgin. They have entered freedom, they can do as they please, its there decisions that will make them or break them</p>

15

<p>my D was in a sub free dorm- she selected it because she has asthma and didnt want to be around people that smoked- even legal tobacco unless she could help it. She also needed quiet to concentrate and thought a subfree dorm would be quieter than a quiet dorm where they might have parties but then had to shut everything down at 10pm
they took it very seriously.
very seriously
Subfree isn't required, if you don't want to live there you don't
Now some schools subfree means you don't use substances away from the dorm either- but I think that sounds more like a treatment center than a dorm.
While some schools subfree dorms just means that the people who party puke on somone elses floor, it can also be a place where students who don't necessarily want to jump in feet first to "do everything you can to prove how grown up you are", and are more content with moderation</p>

16

<p>lovetocamp,
This does seem an unfortunate situation, but CAL is well known for being a large bureaucracy and part of the education is learning how to deal with it and work the system. If the first appeal to move rooms failed, then what is the escalation path and/or next step this boy can do to try to resolve his situation? I'm sure there is someone else that he can bring his case to, so that there can be a solution.</p>

<p>That said, my S's experience at the CAL dorms was fairly bland last year, and it was far from the 'wonderful dorm experience' so many people experience. It also wasn't very rowdy. Foothill is known for being a pretty quiet dorm. This year, he is living in one of the co-ops and his living situation is much improved - more social and communal.</p>

<p>Overall, my S has had an excellent experience at CAL. Its not for everyone, but I wouldn't toss it out due to one person's bad experience in the dorms.</p>

17

<p>It is not just Berkeley, we saw plenty of drug issues at other UCs and privates.</p>

<p>The disappointment he feels is real and merited, but it is the fact that no longer are colleges in loco parentis, but rather your kid is simply fending for themselves and eating up the freedom. Some do well, some don't. I have heard dorm horror stories from all types of schools. One of our friends had a kid in their dorm drive a car load of kids, all on cocaine, the car crashed, one kid died, the driver was arrested and kicked out of school...she left, but I don't know for sure if the school made her leave or it was to do with court things. All the kids in the car were high, it happens, it is disgusting and scary, but I don't think you can simply blame Berkeley.</p>

<p>I do think they ought to be able to do a room switch, though he might have more luck finding some one else to trade with and simply getting the trade approved, especially with all the new spring admits coming in.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

18

<p>Thanks to all who posted. Though I am angered by what has happened to my good friend's son, and I think that Berkeley should be held more accountable for what goes on in their dorms, this hopefully is a somewhat isolated incident. I will pass on the recommendations (from those who have posted) to my friend, so that he might resolve the situation for his son. We will see, when/if my own son is accepted, how we feel at that time. Berkeley is known for providing a great education, and I will try to not let one situation overshadow what might otherwise be a wonderful school experience.</p>

19

<p>I have two friends who have children at Berkeley and also know an individual in the administration at the school. The complaints about Berkeley that I've heard from them are more related to the fact that it is increasingly difficult each year to get into the courses needed to graduate. While it's unfortunate that a kid has to experience a horrible roommate situation as "John" apparently is, I have never (not once!) heard of any college which will not be amenable to a room switch when such a problem arises. I'm skeptical that this was pursued in the manner it should have been. These situations occur at every college, to varying degrees, and while the university cannot possibly police every single situation, they can, and do, react when there is a problem. I would recommend that the student, and if need be, the parents, make another attempt to find other accomodations.</p>

20

<p>I don't know if I can contribute much new that was not already said but I guess the more that chime in, the better. </p>

<p>I don't attribute this problem to Berkeley and believe such situations exist at all college campuses. Before I go on, I will add that I hope your child's decision as to whether or not to attend Berkeley does not rest on this friend's experience because it is not necessarily typical of all on that campus, let alone that it could be a scenario on any college campus. </p>

<p>I think we don't know the entire picture here as to what attempts have been pursued to rectify this situation. First, yes, the student should have just cause to request a room change, as it is not about "getting along" but about the use of drugs, alcohol and drug dealing. Ideally, this student might want to pursue any substance free housing on campus if he feels strongly on this issue. In any case, we don't know what avenues they went through in pursuit of a room change. Let's say a room change is not possible. There are other issues here, then. If the student is going through the proper channels....RA, dorm supervisor, housing office, counseling office, etc., then the student has brought to the attention the use of drugs and drug dealing in that room. Most colleges have substance abuse policies. If this is brought to the attention of those that deal with this, then the RA and higher ups in that chain would be on the lookout for violations of the drug policies on campus in that room. I know, for instance, at one of my D's schools, that there is a whole series of consequences for these kinds of violations....including losing housing privileges. These kids are violating certain rules and I would like to think that if brought to the attention of those who deal with this, then consequences of varying degrees will be put in place. These kids could potentially lose the dorm privilege at some campuses, as well as a myriad of other consequences. Drug dealing would involve stiffer consequences, according to the policies I have read at one of my kids' schools. I think the student must be proactive by seeking the various staff people in these areas....be it housing or counseling or substance abuse staff, etc. In fact, a big concern would be that when and if these kids are discovered by an RA or some such, the innocent kid may very well be in trouble for being in the wrong place at the wrong time even if totally uninvolved....trust me, this happens. So, this student needs to look out for his own rights and needs and talk to whomever on staff is the proper chain of command over this issue itself. I would put this in the student's hands and advise on the sidelines as a parent. If the student goes through all those steps unsuccessfully, a parent can make a call as well to inquire about these issues....not simply the housing issue but the violation of the drug policies on campus and the issue of his child possibly being in trouble for being caught in the same room where this is going on and where the student HAS to live there and has no choice of where to reside. </p>

<p>As others mentioned, if all that failed, the family still might be able to pursue another option regarding housing, if this is entirely intolerable. As well, after freshman year, students choose their roomies and so this will be solved that way as well. This student, in the meantime, can spend very little time in the room, also use an RA to mediate, and actively pursue the avenues on campus in the various offices, not simply housing but also those who deal with policy violations and counselors on staff. </p>

<p>Susan</p>