Berkeley's International Reputation

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
1

<p>Many people have told me that overseas Berkeley is respected as one of the, if not the best, best schools in the world. This despite the fact that in the US it is not super-well respected. </p>

<p>I have friends whose relatives/parents who grew up in other countries holding Berkeley in higher regard than places like Yale, Princeton, Caltech, and Stanford. I was talking to a friends father awhile back and he was saying how he though that Berkeley being a public school with such few resources yet so many Nobel prize winners meant that they "must be doing something right." "Stanford is really rich, that's it. Berkeley is better."</p>

<p>Other people haven't even heard of Yale, Princeton, etc...</p>

<p>Why the big respect gap for Cal between domestic and international audiences. Just because they don't differentiate grad/undegrad programs elsewhere.</p>

2

<p>I live in eastern Europe and here where I live everyone knows about Harvard and Yale as the best best schools. Though no one has heard of Princeton.
And yes it's true that Berkeley is still known. Most people do know about Tufts, Berkeley, and Cornell, more than they know of Princeton, Amherst, Swarthmore, or Caltech.</p>

3

<p>World-Prestige Academic Ranking</p>

<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>a lot of bunched up good schools here</li>
</ol>

<p>:)</p>

4

<p>It's hard to miss Berkeley, esp with the reputation it gained during Vietnam and the elements it discovered in it's name.</p>

<p>Perhaps it's because I lived in California my whole life, but ever since I was a pre-teen I've known about Berkeley as a world-renowned school.</p>

5

<p>
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Many people have told me that overseas Berkeley is respected as one of the, if not the best, best schools in the world.

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<p>I agree that Berkeley has a strong international reputation. But come on, let's face it, it can't be "the best". Whether we like it or not, when it comes to reputation, nobody beats Harvard. The Harvard brand name is far and away the best brand name in all of academia. No other school even comes close in terms of sheer branding. Not MIT, not Stanford, not Berkeley, not Yale, not anybody. This is not a close call by any means. Whether we like it or not, Harvard is Harvard.</p>

<p>
[quote]
This despite the fact that in the US it is not super-well respected.

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<p>I wouldn't say this either. The Berkeley PhD programs are indeed super well respected, and deservedly so. Even the undergrad program, which is clearly the laggard program at Berkeley, is still pretty good. Just not AS good as some of its competitors. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I was talking to a friends father awhile back and he was saying how he though that Berkeley being a public school with such few resources yet so many Nobel prize winners meant that they "must be doing something right." "Stanford is really rich, that's it. Berkeley is better."

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</p>

<p>That's a bit of hyperbole, don't you think? You can support Berkeley without having to tear at Stanford. Besides, the number of Nobels does not currently support the notion that Berkeley is "better" than Stanford - because Stanford right now has 17 Nobel laureates, and Berkeley has 6.</p>

<p>There was a time when Berkeley was indeed significantly better than Stanford, notably in the 40's to the 60's when Berkeley was winning a long string of Nobels (Stanford didn't win its first until 1952). That was because, frankly, for about half of its life, Stanford was a weak backwater regional school of little consequence. It's only been in the last 50 years or so that Stanford became the powerhouse that we know it to be now. I think there is little dispute that Berkeley was better than Stanford back in the old days. But the point is, Stanford has lately gotten to be very very good. Let's give credit where credit is due. Stanford is not "just rich". They're also good. We need to respect the competition.</p>

6

<p>Heh, I think you need to calm down. The OP's talking about public perception and posted a quote from somebody not presenting it as fact or anything, or even trying to pass it off as his own belief. I don't think any of us doubt Harvard has the biggest name or that Stanford is a good school.</p>

<p>On topic again, I have also heard talk that Berkeley's international reputation is significantly better than its domestic reputation. Although I'm just speculating, I do notice we take a lot of foreign graduate students, so perhaps that's why our name gets around? Although, there's the chicken and egg problem here: did we attract lots of foreigners because we were internationally renowned, or did we become internationally renowned by attracting foreigners?</p>

<p>I would definitely say that in the minds of most kids I grew up with, Berkeley was below HYSPM (of course, depending on what you were studying--I didn't know many engineers wanting into H or Y over Berkeley). I've heard internationally Berkeley is included in that group, and toward the top of it, too.</p>

7

<p>As a personal anecdote, before my dad came from China, the only schools he's heard of were Harvard, Columbia, Berkeley, MIT, Cornell, Stanford and maybe a few others. Never heard of Princeton or Yale I think (not sure). Also, all my relatives in China have heard of Berkeley. So it's got quite an international reputation (most likely for graduate studies though).</p>

8

<p>Berkeley is as hard as any of the top schools to get into as an intel..</p>

9

<p>woo...internationals represent</p>

10

<p>GoldenBoy..it's because of Berkeley's graduate programs. I would dare say it has the best graduate programs in the entire world. Honestly too. It's humanities, engineering, science departments are all top in the world. The academics abroad have heard of Berkeley because of its research and graduate programs. It's well-known not just in Asia, but in Europe. I have spent some time in Europe, and some think Berkeley is better than Oxford and Cambridge. Yeah, unbelievable it seems, but for graduate programs it probably is.</p>

<p>Berkeley is not uber-respected for its undergraduate program, but its graduate programs are arguably THE best, if not at least in the top 2 or 3. (Stanford comes close.)</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
Heh, I think you need to calm down. The OP's talking about public perception and posted a quote from somebody not presenting it as fact or anything, or even trying to pass it off as his own belief. I don't think any of us doubt Harvard has the biggest name or that Stanford is a good school.

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</p>

<p>Uh, eudean, I think you need to calm down. I am well aware that the OP was talking about perception, and the fact is, Harvard has indisputably the best perception in the world. I don't think anybody can seriously dispute this. Come on, we all know that Harvard has the most famous brand-name of all the schools. The most famous brand in soft drinks is Coca Cola, the most famous brand in coffeehouses is Starbucks, the most famous brand name in baseball are the New York Yankees, and the most famous brand in education is Harvard. </p>

<p>The same is true of Stanford. It's hard for me to see that Stanford doesn't have an extremely strong perception around the world.</p>

12

<p>people i talk to always get berkeley and berklee confused. irritates me all the time. but hey, they think stanfurd and mit are ivy schools, always try to rank schools when given two or more school names, don't even try to understand the concept of law school and med school (here law and med are undergrad. there is no law/med school. so you graduate in 4, intern/resident for 3, then you're a doc), think mit, caltech, usc, upenn are publics (darn state names) and berkeley and purdue are privates, etc.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
the most famous brand name in baseball are the New York Yankees

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<p>Just to clear up my analogy - you don't have to LIKE a particular brand name to admit that it is a big brand name. I'm a Red Sox fan, and so I HATE the Yankees, but I freely admit that the Yankees have a better brand name than the Sox do. I also freely admit that the Yankees have been a far more successful team than the Sox have been. This is not about whether you like or hate a team, just about whether you acknowledge the power of the brand.</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
I am well aware that the OP was talking about perception, and the fact is, Harvard has indisputably the best perception in the world. I don't think anybody can seriously dispute this.

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</p>

<p>He said that many people have told him something. He said that his friend's dad said something about Stanford. Are you going to dispute that these things were said? Heck, you seem to have missed the point of his post, which was that Berkeley has a better reputational internationally than it does domestically. I've heard it does. Have you? I think it may be because we have a lot of international graduate students. What do you think? That's what this topic is, not whether Harvard is perceived top internationally or whether Stanford is better than Cal.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
He said that many people have told him something. He said that his friend's dad said something about Stanford. Are you going to dispute that these things were said?

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<p>I am not disputing that many people may have told him something, or that his friend's dad said certain things. These are indisputable facts, unless the OP is lying (which I don't think he is).</p>

<p>However, it is the implication that what they're telling him is the truth that is under dispute. After all, if the OP was just coming here to present a bunch of things that happened to him, that would be rather boring. The dispute is in the analysis of the truthfulness of what has been told to him. After all, if I go to Yankee Stadium, I am sure that I will find a lot of people who are convinced that the Yankees will crush the Sox on their way to winning the World Series this year. But just because a lot of people will tell me it is so doesn't make it so. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Heck, you seem to have missed the point of his post, which was that Berkeley has a better reputational internationally than it does domestically. I've heard it does. Have you?I think it may be because we have a lot of international graduate students. What do you think? That's what this topic is, not whether Harvard is perceived top internationally or whether Stanford is better than Cal.

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</p>

<p>No, I think I understand the point perfectly. </p>

<p>But what I object to are statements like "respected as one of the, if not the best, best schools in the world. " Come on, more world respect than Harvard? That's a stretch. But if you are saying that Berkeley is the best school in the world, then you are saying that it has more respect than Harvard. Eudean, do you agree with that notion? I didn't think so.</p>

<p>His comment about his friend's father is basically a smarmy comment. I don't dispute that it got said, but I dispute the truthfulness of the statement. Again, it's like Yankees fans saying that the Yankees this year are better than the Sox (despite the undeniable fact that the Sox are leading the Yankees in the division). Just because somebody says something is so doesn't make it so.</p>

16

<p>
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I'm a Red Sox fan

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</p>

<p>You poor thing... :(</p>

17

<p>Hey, at least the Sox have won the World Series more recently than the Yankees have.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
But what I object to are statements like "respected as one of the, if not the best, best schools in the world."

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<p>Taken out of context, I would probably object, too. But if someone said "My friends have told me that overseas people view Berkeley as one of the, if not the, best schools in the world", I would have no objection. Nowhere is it said that Berkeley is the best school in the world. It is said that some people the OP knows have heard that people overseas view Berkeley as a highly respected university, among the best. It doesn't say definitely the best, it doesn't say better than Harvard, both of which you infer from this. You're attacking nothing.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I don't dispute that it got said, but I dispute the truthfulness of the statement.

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</p>

<p>That's great, but he isn't positing it as true, just as having been said by somebody. President Bush said there were WMDs in Iraq. Are you now going to yap about how there actually weren't, even when I didn't say I believed there were? He's citing an example of an individual that grew up in another country viewing Berkeley as better than Stanford. It's completely unnecessary anecdotal evidence that Cal has a better international than domestic reputation, but it's not the truth of the statement that matters, but the belief in the statement of the person that said it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The dispute is in the analysis of the truthfulness of what has been told to him.

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</p>

<p>This is what the OP asked:</p>

<p>
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Why the big respect gap for Cal between domestic and international audiences.

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</p>

<p>If you believe there isn't a big respect gap, then say so. His question does not rely at all on Berkeley being more internationally respected than Harvard or better than Stanford. To have perfectly understood his post and only retorted without answering his legitimate question is trolling.</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
But if you are saying that Berkeley is the best school in the world, then you are saying that it has more respect than Harvard. Eudean, do you agree with that notion? I didn't think so.

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</p>

<p>I'm having trouble understanding what refers to what here- it seem ambiguous to me. Sakky, if you are saying that the logic doesn't make sense, that one can say and believe a school is the best in the world and acknowledge that it is not the most repsected, I agree.</p>

20

<p>I'm an 18 year-old Japanese lady and has lived in 4 countries, namely: Japan, Singapore, the Philippines and England. </p>

<p>Based on my personal experience, Berkeley is very, very reputable in countries where I have once lived, but I would not say it is more reputable than Harvard. I would say they both belong to the same league, BUT Harvard is still a little bit more popular. </p>

<p>I also noticed that reputation varies from one country to the other. </p>

<p>In Japan, Harvard, Berkely and MIT are in the same league when it comes to reputation. I guess, they all have equall amount of prestige and one can neither say is more reputable than the other. Princeton is NOT popular in Japan.</p>

<p>In the Philippines, Harvard, Berkeley and Yale are considered very prestigious but MIT, UCLA, Stanford, Columbia, Michigan and NYU are not far behind. Princeton is not well-known in the Philippines as well. The top students in the Philippines always aim for Harvard grad studies in fields outside of engineering. For eng'g, MIT, Berkeley and Stanford are their top choices. </p>

<p>In Singapore, Harvard, Yale and MIT are the top ones. Berkeley and Stanford are very close behind. </p>

<p>And in the UK, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Columbia, NYU, Chicago and Cornell are very popular. But the Brits are more attracted to study in their universities because they also have oxford, cambridge, London, warwick, edinburgh and the like. </p>

<p>please take not that the above comments are just my personal experiences.</p>