<p>I graduated from UCLA.</p>
<p>See post below.</p>
<p>Ubermensch, you cannot completely separate undergraduate education from graduate education. Sure there is a small difference, but we are not talking night and day. The same buildings house all the students and the same faculty teaches those students, grad or undergrad. I agree that Cal has a slightly weaker student body (not significantly weaker mind you) and that MIT, being better equipped relatively speaking, can provide slightly more individualized services, but at the end of the day. the two universities are not far apart in terms of quality. Like I always say, MIT is anywhere between #1 and #5 and Cal is anywhere between #6 and #7...and that's at the undergraduate level. At the graduate level, Cal blows MIT aways.</p>
<p>MIT is far greater than Berkeley. Come on now, it's common sense.</p>
<p>False! The NRC has Berkeley ahead ranked in more departments than MIT. Also, Berkeley has a higher average ranking in the subjects it is ranked in. Is MIT better than Berkeley in science? Just barely according to US News individual departmental rankings. They are neck in neck in almost every single science. MIT only has a very miniscule edge. Dont you think that since MIT specializes in the sciences then it should totally destroy Cal? Well it doesnt. MIT also has just a tiny edge in the professional schools as well. Berkeley destroys MIT in subjects outside of the sciences though. Berkeleys library system also destroys MITs. The Shangjai Jiao Tong ranking has them almost equal BUT it has Berkeley ahead. London Times? Yep, you guessed it. Berkeley is ahead there too. </p>
<p>How is it MIT FAR greater than Berkeley? I dont know. You didnt show me. You just spit that out without giving any thought to what you said. </p>
<p>If a person was admitted to both Berkeley and MIT, odds are that he will choose to go to MIT.</p>
<p>Lets see. The 25-75 percentile SAT scores of MIT students is 1410-1560. Pretty good but the incoming freshmen class is about 1000 students so that means that approximately 750 of them had an SAT score of over 1410. Berkeleys incoming freshmen class is over 3000 with the SAT 25-75 percentile range of 1190-1440. This means that about 800 students had an SAT score of over 1440. As far as SAT score goes, there is about 1000 students that theoretically could have gotten into MIT but either did not apply or chose to attend Cal. Aside from this, 97% of Berkeleys and MITs incoming class graduated in the top 10% of their HS class. Pretty proportional in that respect if you ask me. </p>
<p>Conclusion: You have not proven that most students will choose MIT over Berkeley. I have shown proof that it is not that obvious. </p>
<p>Aside from prestige and academic reputation, which MIT completely dominates Berkeley in </p>
<p>MIT does NOT completely dominate Berkeley in academic reputation. I dont know where you came up with that idea. It may or it may not have a better reputation. Like I said, they are very close. </p>
<p> it's also patently obvious that MIT students are measurably stronger than Berkeley students.</p>
<p>On average, Ill say that MIT undergraduate students are stronger than Berkeley students. Still, Berkeley has MORE gifted students than does MIT. The top 25% of Berkeley undergrads pretty comparable to the upper 75% of MIT undergrads but they slightly greater in number.</p>
<p>Also, Berkeley accepts many community college students who failed in high school. This may be a good act of compassion, which I may personally admire, but it still dilutes the quality of the student body.</p>
<p>Community College students tend to do better in upper division classes than do freshman admits. If you really believe that transfer students are of lower quality then prove it. I have only heard the opposite. </p>
<p>Compared to MIT, Berkeley admissions is an open door.</p>
<p>Berkeley is one of the most selective schools in the nation. It is in no way an open door. Is that why over 75% of the applicants are rejected? Most schools are not as selective as Berkeley is.</p>
<p>Ubermenesh, I know you had a tough time at UCLA. Hey, it is a difficult school. Many people cannot handle the academics there. But dont let your frustrations of the UC system get in the way ability to think logically. </p>
<p>Good night! Go Bruins!</p>
<p>Hopeman, can you provide evidence that ZERO Cal students got into Harvard and Johns Hopkins Medical schools? I find that hard to imagine</p>
<p>i actually can provdie that info right away.. and my message was deleted.. how?</p>
<p>It is true.. that Berkeley admission is almost an open door compared to that of MIT. Heck, Cornell admission is a joke compared to MIT admission. Will MIT get into Berkeley if they apply? probably the majority (over 90 percent) will get in. However, will Berkeley kids get into MIT if they apply? i can assure you that most of them will not. </p>
<p>I am not denouncing Berkeley's education quality. Its one of the best that person can get. However, MIT didn't become world's top tech-institute for nothing. If Berkeley's education is so great, than how do you explain that none of Berkeley's pre-med students last year made it into Harvard, Johns Hopkins, or Yale Medical school?</p>
<p><a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/top20.stm%5B/url%5D">http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/top20.stm</a>
here is my source.. sorry my bad, they had one student accepted in to JHU.</p>
<p>but this is how i really think.. college's reputation, prestige can take one only so far. Forbe's top 10 richest people (if money is an indicator of success) are all college drop outs/non-ivy league students except warren buffet (columbia). Ultimately, its students who make their future, not colleges.</p>
<p>That is not good...or simply not complete. Only 35 acceptances into top 15 medical schools. Oh well, it does not alter the fact that Cal is an amazing university.</p>
<p>If anyone is interested, I go to MIT and I believe the undergraduate GPA average is 4.0-4.2/5.0, but I am not sure.</p>
<p>that ranking from the chinese university sources is from Shanghai Jiaotong University, not Beijing University.</p>
<p>
[quote]
For your own good, you should do some research before you post things in a public forum.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What, do some research on YOUR opinons? You have got to be kidding me. My opinon that MIT is better than Berkeley is the same as your opinion that Berkeley is better than MIT. I never said Berkeley was a bad school which you blatantly accused me of doing. I did not even mention what I thought of Berkeley, so maybe YOU should so some research before posting on this forum.</p>
<p>
[quote]
as far as SAT score goes, there is about 1000 students that theoretically could have gotten into MIT but either did not apply or chose to attend Cal.
[/quote]
<br>
Just because you have a high SAT score doesn't guarantee admission to MIT. It is one of the most difficult universities to gain acceptance to in the world. You need excellent extracurriculars and most likely research. Compounded with excellent teacher rec's and essays.</p>
<p>uc_benz, what are you talking about? Do you really think I need to do research? Take a look at my post. I supported my opinion with facts. That is so funny. Yeah right, I need to do research. </p>
<p>"Just because you have a high SAT score doesn't guarantee admission to MIT."</p>
<p>It doesnt guarantee you admission to Cal either.</p>
<p>"It is one of the most difficult universities to gain acceptance to in the world."</p>
<p>So is Berkeley.</p>
<p>As far as SAT scores go, I hate them. Researchers have shown that they are hardly correlated with college (or freshmen) success. Nevertheless, I cannot ignore that WAY too many people see this as a measurement of ability. If you want to ignore SAT scores then fine. Lets ignore SAT scores. Each shool has 97% of its fresmen graduating in the top 10% of their class. </p>
<p>Look, I dont want to get into dissing MIT because quite frankly it is a hard thing to do. MIT is incredible. But so is Berkeley!</p>
<p>we all know that berkeley is a great school! However, please don't compare the admission of MIT with that of Berkeley. I bet even Alexandre realizes how much harder it is to gain admission at MIT. Even acceptance at Columbia, Dartmouth, Brown or Cornell is a piece of cake compared to that of MIT, Harvard, Yale, or Princeton.</p>
<p>Far as the top 10% status goes, it is much easier to gain top 10% status in public school (where most of the Berkeley kids come from) compared to gaining that at Elite private academy. That is why some Top LACs & colleges like Columbia, MIT, and Harvard have kids who are out of top 10% (Some LACs like Williams & Amherst student bodies are composed of about 40% private academy kids)</p>
<p>3 of my friends, who had rank of 3,4,5 out of 590, and SAT score of 1570, 1570, and 1580, were rejected (yes, not even deferred) from Stanford. It is true that public colleges are more number driven than private colleges. I highly doubt that they would meet same fate, if they applied to Berkeley.</p>
<p>(Pardon my English grammar)</p>
<p>What? You supported it with facts? Let me bring up the post:
[quote]
uc_benz, I would rather go to Berkeley than MIT! Now what? UC Berkeley is arguably the better school. Berkeley is just about as good as MIT in the sciences and it beats MIT in most other subjects. Dont get me wrong, you cant get much better than MIT. I actually like MIT a lot. Besides, whether anyone likes it or not, MIT demands respect. The thing is that I have read some of your posts and they just ooze with ignorance. Why is it so hard for you to accept that Berkeley is one of the best schools in the world? Just because YOU dont like Cal doesnt mean that it is any less incredible. Just because YOU dont like UCB does not mean that many many people dont recognize it as the great school that it is. For your own good, you should do some research before you post things in a public forum.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Facts? What facts? I don't see ONE fact in that post.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"Just because you have a high SAT score doesn't guarantee admission to MIT."</p>
<p>It doesnt guarantee you admission to Cal either.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You just proved my point. You said that if one has a high SAT score and they are at Berkeley then they can get into MIT. WRONG. You seem to think that SAT scores are the deciding factor between getting into MIT and not getting into MIT. </p>
<p>
[quote]
"It is one of the most difficult universities to gain acceptance to in the world."</p>
<p>So is Berkeley.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No kidding. So is University of Michigan, and they still accept about 50% of applicants; it still makes it one of the most selective in the world. The fact is: it's easier to get into Berkeley than MIT. And if you're in-state, its MUCH easier to get into Berkeley. Berkeley is the 32nd most selective school in the US, while MIT is the 16th most selective.</p>
<p>ACtually, although it says that MIT is 16th more selevtive, I think its more like 5 or 6. I have seen countless people accepted into top LACs and Columbia, Dartmouth, etc, but rejected from MIT. I hardly saw any vice-versa situation though.</p>
<p>Why would people (not to mention a countless number) apply to both LACs and MIT?</p>
<p>Amused: to get a good education?</p>
<p>Seriously, depending on the LAC's in question and why, it doesn't seem that weird to me if the student is on the math/science end of things as opposed to engineering.</p>
<p>I think the order of selectivity goes like this:</p>
<ol>
<li>Yale, Stanford, Harvard, and Princeton</li>
<li>MIT, Caltech</li>
<li>Dartmouth, Columbia</li>
<li>Brown</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Cornell, UPenn, Northwestern</li>
<li>University of Chicago, Berkeley (out-of-state)</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>WUSTL</li>
<li>Berkeley (in-state)</li>
</ol>