<p>@Ynotgo funny you should mention, I am a Gaucho, undergrad anyway, but no longer live in CA. Unlike my wife and parents I was not a grade skipped prodigy and did not attend a top 20 school like them. Our son is more that category but I do have fond memories of UCSB, and rowing for them on Lake Cachuma. </p>
<p>@Bamboolong check out this news clip that gives the stats on AP testing. The College Board rarely gives out this type of stat: <a href=“http://hamptonroads.com/2009/09/maury-high-grad-noted-exceptionally-rare-exam-feat”>http://hamptonroads.com/2009/09/maury-high-grad-noted-exceptionally-rare-exam-feat</a></p>
<p>While they publish the state level data each year for AP scholar awards they don’t talk about the outliers, but they do here when the story came out. </p>
<p>@gravitas2 this is a funny article and hits home. I grew up in Los Altos, right next door to Stanford and both of my parents and my sister went there. My son would be third generation legacy- sort of if you count my sister who just finished grad school there. Also my son is Mormon but would probably happily prank BYU where his cousin and several friends attend. In some ways the band might be a good outlet for his mischief. </p>
<p>No problem. Just a little note, AP exams are not considered in college admissions. And usually, high test scores don’t make up for lower GPA’s. One day of trying never makes up for 4 years of work. More than 90% of students admitted into Stanford and MIT have GPAs of 3.75 and above. Without a hook, it will be even harder for him to get in, but he can make sure to write great essays and ask the right teachers for letters of rec. Good luck to you and your family though :)</p>
<p>@benmooremerq have you taken a look at the Honors program at UT Austin? It looks pretty good and seems like it might be challenging enough to keep your son interested.</p>
<p>“The program provides an intense and challenging curriculum that culminates in undergraduate research in the junior and senior years.”</p>
<p><a href=“Turing Scholars | Department of Computer Science”>Turing Scholars | Department of Computer Science;
<p>Since there is a separate additional application for this program, I would hope that they will be able to see beyond the low GPA.</p>
<p>Tuba and (sorta) legacy + overall academics (like the AP thing & child-prodigy intelligence) is probably a hook for Stanford.
Assuming that they value tuba-playing, that is.</p>
<p>“AP exams are not considered in college admissions.”</p>
<p>Source? This claim seems rather far-fetched–I’ve personally heard Adcomms talk about AP scores (though they certainly didn’t explicitly say they’re an admissions factor).</p>
<p>Senior AP exam scores don’t show up til July after graduation. They cannot use those. </p>
<p>@marvin100 I don’t have a source necessarily, but with the exception of a maybe one or two schools, AP exams aren’t considered. It’s because not every school offers APs and some don’t offer them until senior year. Also, some schools have strict policies on how many students can take throughout their high school career. So if they were considered, it could give a potentially give an unfair advantage to schools that offer more APs and are lenient with how many you can take. In addition, since they are mainly for credit purposes, they are sent in officially after admissions and sending in the offical scores in twice would be redundant. Also, since they would be self reported, a college is unlikely to place weight on something that could be untrue. </p>
<p>For most applicants, AP scores do not have any major effect on admission decision. But awards like State AP Scholar and National AP Scholar will be noticed by the admission staff.</p>
<p>@AnnieBeats: “Also, since they would be self reported, a college is unlikely to place weight on something that could be untrue.”</p>
<p>Aren’t all the ECs self-reported? Don’t colleges (especially the elite ones) put weight on ECs?</p>
<p>The admission staff know how to read all the self-reported stuff. They will look for support for the self-reporting from other sources, like LORs and awards. They can even call the school counselors to confirm certain things.</p>
<p>“And usually, high test scores don’t make up for lower GPA’s. One day of trying never makes up for 4 years of work.”</p>
<p>I wonder how many students treat AP tests as “one day of trying.” The students definitely have to study for the tests to do well. Most have taken the class for a year. Those who self-study for APs also spend various time on preparation, depending on the individual’s ability. If AP tests were just the result of “one day of trying”, what do you think about the SAT/ ACT? Don’t all the tests scores represent the snapshots in time, including the finals of the courses taken?</p>
<p>With that being said, I do know a student whose school did not offer any AP classes and he studied AP World History, AP English Language, AP Economics ( both macro and micro) each for half day. He spent a little more time for Bio, Chem, and Calculus. He got all 5s except a 4 in Chem. If he did not have enough prior knowledge, he would not be able to score well on the tests with little preparation. The tests are valid to tell knowledge proficiency to some extent; otherwise, why is there the trouble to make the tests and to take the tests? On the other hand, I always wonder why some students taking the AP courses are not willing to take the AP tests (in our local high school, AP tests are not required by the AP courses). They seem comfortable to secure an A in an AP course, which is not hard in our high school, but afraid not to score a 4 or 5 if taking the AP test. </p>
<p>I think it is possible to use high SAT/ACT/AP scores to make up for lower GPA in special cases. Of course, the scores have to be exceptionally high, and the lower GPA is from a school of high rigor and competitiveness. I know a handful of such students got into the top schools with their “lower” GPAs (compared to the other admitted students). </p>
<p>I think most American high schools have a universal problem of grade inflation. A 3.5 GPA is considered low here but in many foreign countries with much stricter grading, it is considered pretty good.</p>
<p>@Bamboolong
</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter. Elite colleges don’t want a student who will not contribute to classes and not apply themselves, and then study a lot towards the end of a semester for midterms or finals. The OP’s child clearly has potential, but also hasn’t applied himself to the best of his ability. If you went to college, or if you are in college, you know that college is more than just taking exams and getting A’s. It’s not about the content. Why do you think so much emphasis is put on letters of recommendation and essays? Because colleges want students who will contribute to the community and to classrooms. If you cannot do that, you aren’t going to get admitted. Most, if not all colleges weight the transcript more heavily than test scores. It is by far the most important part and test scores will never make up for bad class grades. In my daughters school, a kid in the bottom 50% of the class got one of the highest scores on the SAT in school history. It was a 2330 if I’m not mistaken. Now obviously this is just one scenario, but he got rejected from his top privates because he didn’t have anything to offer to the classroom despite great test scores. Some of the brightest and intellectually curious students get test anxiety and some of the most lackluster students excel at testing. Colleges know this, which is why one will never make up for the other. A good GPA won’t make up for a bad SAT score and a good SAT score won’t make up for a bad GPA. That’s just how it is. You either have it, or you don’t.</p>
<p>According to Yale,
<a href=“http://admissions.yale.edu/what-yale-looks-for”>http://admissions.yale.edu/what-yale-looks-for</a>
</p>
<p>This is probably echoed by other selective schools.</p>
<p>I would apply widely because you never know which school will see the number of APs as an advantage. This kid seems very smart/prodigy type, not just book smart, and if he can channel the energy into something he likes and wants to do, he will do great things. I tend to think boys are a little like this. </p>
<p>USC has a good RHP program for early admission and it has band.
<a href=“https://dornsife.usc.edu/resident-honors-program”>https://dornsife.usc.edu/resident-honors-program</a></p>
<p>Also apply to UCB L&S then later transfer to CS. I know a kid from my daughter’s high school who got in with 2400 SAT(one time only), he has lackluster grades but not sure if it’s 3.9 weighted.</p>
<p>Depends on the school. Some elite privates are more stats focused than others. And again, holistic admissions. So sure, just a strong test score and nothing else won’t do much, but strong test score + acheivement + skill (like playing the tuba) and maybe legacy is pretty strong even with a mediocre GPA (and colleges do take how challenging your HS is in to account as well). </p>
<p>I know that times have changed, but back in the day, someone in my HS not only got in to JHU, but got one of their few full-tuition scholarships despite mediocre grades with a perfect SAT and strong EC (and very strong rec from the guidance counselor, who was involved in the EC).</p>
<p>Yes, a student’s “contribution to the community” is the most desirable quality. Most colleges want to make a well-rounded class that will contribute not only to their community but also to the society as a whole. They can admit those have shown success in high school as well as the unconventional geniuses who may be lopsided but have potentials to cure cancer or revolutionize technology. </p>
<p>No one can deny that the transcript is the most important factor in admission. However, I do not believe that the admission process is like the spelling bee, in which you misspell an easy word and you are out of the game even if you can spell all the harder words in the later rounds.</p>
<p>“A good GPA won’t make up for a bad SAT score and a good SAT score won’t make up for a bad GPA.”</p>
<p>I do not agree with this statement. The Academic Index used by some elite colleges certainly allow some kind of makeup. <a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index3.htm”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index3.htm</a></p>
<p>OP’s son is outstanding except his GPA, which might have to do with the maturity level of his mind-set. I think it is important to let him show that he is both psychologically and academically ready for college as a younger applicant. And, above all, he is more than the stats.</p>
<p>A good thing is that OP’s son is not considering Yale.</p>
<p>I just want to clarify that less than stellar GPA will not rule out the possibility of top schools. The holistic admission is to take all things into perspective. </p>
<p>@ormdad I will take a look at that program. Many big schools honors programs are appealing. A comment on AP tests, @AnnieBeats I know that UVA looks at AP scores, in a big way. I just met with an admissions officer and the deputy chair of the Computer Science Department. It’s expected, especially in a high school that offers 23 AP courses, like his. In fact the rigor of your academic record versus the highest rigor possible is paramount at UVA. If you have an AP option and do not take it, when other students do, that’s a big problem. For schools that do not rank (like our school in FCPS.edu, Fairfax County, VA there is no ranking) the ranking UVA does is based on the school profile and how you stack up versus the other students in taking advantage of that rigor. Of course, they want to see As, and 5s on AP tests, but the Admissions Officer went so far in a public forum of 400 parents to say “You need to get the idea of GPA out of your heads. Schools are inconsistent in how they calculate it, some don’t at all, plus we have homeschool applicants. For in-state students, we have a profile on every high school in the state and compare you against the most rigorous course offerings. We want to see that your grades don’t take a nosedive when you enter more advanced courses.We like to see an upward trend.” That’s a nearly direct quote. The good news in my sons case is that when he took all AP courses his unweighted GPA actually went up significantly, and he has an upward trend. He’s not a lock for UVA though, by any means. And I know that it’s not wise to trust the word of one admissions officer, even in a large public meeting. I also know that when I called the CS dept and asked for a meeting based on his 2360 SAT at age 15, they called me back immediately. It could be a common courtesy as a taxpayer of course. </p>
<p>Say, @benmooremerq:</p>
<p>Is there a web page for the UT-Austin scholarship based on age and test score? Just for future reference. </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>He may have some CS-related ECs that you aren’t aware of. For example, if he helps people out on Stack Overflow, he may have a high ranking there that he wouldn’t bother mentioning to you. It isn’t something that an adcom would know about, but the CS department would. I’ve heard of homeschoolers including things like their Stack Overflow ranking on their applications. With a low GPA and lots of CS experience, you might look at including things like that.</p>
<p>BTW, merit money from UMich is a possibility. Not sure if that was mentioned before.</p>
<p>Do you know what schools the students of his tuba instructor have gotten scholarships from?</p>