<p>I believe in assimilation, in learning the langauge and culture, but also the should retain who they are, and their own culture. It's very possible to "stay true to yourself" and still be a part of society</p>
<p>Agreed. At home, among the family, with the children - by all means, preserve the culture.</p>
<p>But in society, in the workforce, when using services - I don't see why immigrants should alienate themselves in their new country, or, quite frankly, why they should force the people already here to cater to them.</p>
<p>I probably sound like an arrogant american, but I think learning English is so crucial to success in this country. Just at high school, the immigrants who aren't really trying to learn the langauge and just stick with others of their mother country have a much harder time adapting than the ones who are eager to learn English and hang out with all kinds of people</p>
<p>Celebrian25: We're so off topic it's not even funny anymore. However, staying true to the concept of a healthy intellectual discussion, I will deviate from the original intentions on the post.</p>
<p>I immigrated to the United States when I was six, placed in an ESL/Bilingual class which did not help...because Mandarin was my mother tongue but the ESL/bilingual class was in Spanish. Sort of funny in a way, but not really. I didn't truly learn English until I was certified GATE and had an incredible teacher that placed an emphasis on reading, reading, reading. My parents also focused on having us (my little brother and I) learn English so English was spoken at home as well. </p>
<p>Now I see some of my former classmates in that 1st grade ESL class and they are still struggling with English and having difficulty in school. Meanwhile, being placed into an English-speaking, GATE class in my fourth grade allowed me to be fully immersed in the English language and was crucial to my so-called success in high school. I joke around often that I am a former ESL student that got a 5 on the AP English Language Exam (oh, the irony).</p>
<p>After briefly recounting my experience, I strongly support getting rid of ESL and bilingual classes and forcing students to speak English in schools--full immersion in a language is absolutely necessary to learn it. I also agree that immigrants should learn English. That doesn't mean losing one's own culture. I still speak Mandarin (though not as much) and plan to fulfill my foreign language requirements by taking Mandarin. </p>
<p>Now, as a segue to the main topic, learning a foreign language is crucial, especially in such a globalized society.</p>
<p>I didn't mean to stray so far off topic lol, but you make an excellent point. There is a Mexican boy in my Spanish class, and he's been here since October, but he barely knows any more english than he did in October because he has an ESL tutor and all that jazz. It seems like they're babying him sometimes, if you understand what I"m saying</p>
<p>Thank you guys for elaborating my point about assimilation. Y'all put it very well. I think cultures should be retained by all means (at home). But to put it bluntly, you have to learn English to succeed in America(which I think is a logical and good thing).</p>
<p>Very true eiffel about ESL, congrats on the 5. I've been here my whole life and made a 4. Ironic. lol</p>
<p>its kind of weird when your approached on the street, and asked for something in spanish. im half korean and irish, and would not be mistaken for a latino in any cirumstance. i do dable in spanish so i can help people out, but it is kind of annoying. though on the flip side, i do remember going to pakistan and not knowing a word of urdu, but the family i went with was from there, so it was good.</p>
<p>I agree with you guys, but I don't think it's a valid reason not to learn Spanish. In fact, it sounds pretty immature.</p>
<p>But why learn a language that really isn't foreign. I mean that is what sets all of us CCers aside, we want to excel, and Spanish is so commonplace now...</p>
<p>eiffelguy87, you write with such confidence that people who do not know better may accidentally take it for a sign of knowledge, while in reality what you said is completely wrong.
Just one example among many:
Look at the Russians. They have always had trouble with the slavophiles and the slavophobes. In an attempt to be non-Western, they switched to the cyrillic alphabet, which has set them back significantly
Russians NEVER used Latin alphabet. It was always Cyrillic.</p>
<p>::and Spanish is so commonplace now::</p>
<p>EXACTLY. Or are you one of those people who feels the need to learn about obscure, completely irrelevant topics that will in no way help you in the real world but that will make you feel just a little better than everyone else? No offense to latin, because I understand how it can be considered useful. </p>
<p>Spanish is a good language to learn because, like it or not, (and believe me, I will be the first person to complain about latino immigrants never learning to speak English or making an attempt to fit in), it is widely spoken in our country and the world. </p>
<p>In addition, learning Spanish will make it loads easier to learn other romance languages like French or Portugese. I know, I did it.</p>
<p>Quoting myself: "...learning a foreign language is crucial, especially in such a globalized society," which would include learning Spanish.</p>
<p>And to address the Russian alphabet problem: Poor wording; should have said that the Russians opted with the cyrillic alphabet in an attempt to be non-Western. My mistake. And to ensure that there won't be anymore rumblings about my "confidence" inferred from my posts, I'm not a specialist in Russian and by no means fluent in the language.</p>
<p>Please refer to post #23 on this thread where I elaborated on my statements</p>
<p>"In Russia's situation however, it's proximity to Europe and adopting a western-based alphabet would've been beneficial in terms of communication; instead , they opted with the cyrillic alphabet which requires transliteration."</p>
<p>Lilybbloom: As you live in France, I was wondering whether you can confirm my statement that in Southern France, the influx of Algerians results in African influences (linguistically, speaking of course). Are there any other residents of France that may or may not confirm this?</p>
<p>And returning to Spanish spoken in the United States, there shouldn't be too much concern that a "silent reconquista" (as one Mexican author put it) is occurring; in fact, Spanish is threatened here in the U.S. with the emergence of Spanglish.</p>
<p>I think learning Spanish is very valuable, and will only increase in value. It is a forgien langauge still. If you randomly went up to someone on the street, chances are they're not fluent in Spanish, but are in English. It's not like in Canada where both French and English are commonly used. Yes, there are a lot of Spanish speakers, but for the most part they are immigrants or the children of immigrants, it has not yet become a part of mainstream society the way English is.</p>
<p>My oldest daughter had two years of Latin in middle school but for 9th grade needed to choose Spanish or French. I was pushing for French as I knew the teacher was very good and I felt more comfortable with her going to a French speaking country for a school trip than Spanish speaking country. (I read the news too much?)
Anyway, she choose Spanish, and she took it for 5 years( in high school) she had the opportunity to do field research in Costa Rica, incidentally a country with a higher literacy rate than the US, and is looking forward to returning once she graduate from college.
Her sister is also taking Spanish, and while I am not encouraging them to visit relatives of their aunt who live in Bogota', I no longer feel that Spanish speaking countries are intrinsically unsafer than any other country.
I think Spanish is a great language to learn, in our area we have many Spanish speaking families attracted by the fishing community, and another popular language Mandarin is not offered as commonly in schools</p>
<p>How variant is the Spanish language? I know that Spain Spanish has a lisp in it (with a story of King Carlos behind it) and that there is an elitist attitude towards Spanish spoken in Latin America, Central America, and Mexico.</p>
<p>My French teacher, who also speaks Spanish, says that when her friend (a Cuban) went to Spain, some of the metropolitan Spaniards treated horribly, but when another friend said that she was an American who spoke Spanish (she has a Mexican heritagte), Spaniards in the city were not as rude.</p>
<p>Spanish Spain is very different from Latin American Spanish I've been told. And Puerto Rican Spanish has characteristics that are different from any others, as is the same with all countries. In some countries (Spain and Argentina off the top of my head) they tend to use vos, while in other countries the tu form is more common.</p>
<p>Correction: In Argentina and one other country (Uruguay, I think) they use vos in place of tu, in Spain they use VOSOTROS, the plural form of tu which does not exist in American (meaning north & south) Spanish.</p>
<p>There are 19 countries where Spanish is the official language, and there are obviously differences in vocabulary and pronunciation, however each variety of Spanish is definitely mutually intelligible to a native speaker from a different country. It's not like, say, colloquial Arabic, which differs vastly from country to country.</p>
<p>Ian - I'm kind of a mut too, and I ALWAYS get latino people who just start jabbering away at me in Spanish. It's kinda funny :-)</p>
<p>And to all of you people who think everyone living here should speak English:
While I am definitely a big fan of assimilation, just keep in mind that it's not always as simple as you make it out. A lot of immigrants from latin american countries come here because they had no lives in their native land (they were very poor, etc) and they want better lives for themselves and their kids. Many live in predominantly Latino communities and they are able to get by in Spanish at their workplace, so it's not like learning English is a necessity. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that there are a ridiculous number of American ex-pats who don't necessarily speak the language of their adopted country very well. I lived in Japan for about 6 months and I ALWAYS heard Americans and Canadians speaking English. I met 2 Americans there who had lived there for YEARS and still couldn't really get by in Japanese. </p>
<p>Not an excuse, I know, but it's something to keep in mind. If it makes you feel any better, studies show that by the 3rd generation most people in this country use English as their predominant or only language at home.</p>
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<p>I'd be interested to find out what is the hardest language to actually learn. I've heard people say that English is the most difficult, but I have a hard time seeing how it could be harder then many of the asain languages.</p>
<p>It is interesing, I was in Time Square during New Years Eve, and the people behind us had flown in from Sweeden. Appearently over there they were required to learn Sweedish, but then starting in I believe the 4th grade they had to learn English (and had English classes from that point through their High School graduations). Beyond all of that, they still had to chose a third language to learn! I had a hard enough time with one (I never could manage Spanish, it ended up being one of those subjects that was just beyond me... I'm doing pretty well in ASL now), could not imagin having to learn more then that.</p>
<p>The assimilation works both ways. An American living in a foreign country should learn their host country's language as well.</p>
<p>Ctrain: "so it's not like learning English is a necessity"</p>
<p>Are you kidding, it is people like you who leave America to lose its identity. I am all for immigration, but once you get here, you conform to American culture in mainstream. What you do at home is your business.</p>