<p>Which Ivy has the best undergrad music program? As in, which has the best most experienced teachers, the best and most performance opportunities, and draws in the most students with musical interests?</p>
<p>Yale University. Also consider Northwestern University & Oberlin College.</p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon University
Northwestern University
Oberlin College
Rice University
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Rochester
Yale University</p>
<p>Just to clarify, I'm not looking for all schools with great music programs; in fact, the reason I made this thread was not for my own personal college search.
I was just curious if there was one or two Ivy League schools that have a reputable music department for undergrads.
But I appreciate the replies =)</p>
<p>Many posters respond in a fashion designed to help a large number of CC viewers.</p>
<p>Gourman ranking for music</p>
<p>Gourman undergrad music ranking:
UC Berkeley
U Chicago
Princeton
Yale
Cornell
U Michigan AA
U Illinois UC
Columbia
Harvard
UCLA
U Rochester
UNC Chapel Hill
Stanford
Oberlin
Indiana U Bloomington
NYU
U Penn
Brandeis
USC
U Iowa
Northwestern
U Texas Austin
Rutgers NB
Ohio State
U North Texas
U Washington
Cal State Northridge
Florida State
Boston U
U Cincinnati</p>
<p>Most Ivies don't have great Performance-based Music programs. Yale is the only exception as far as I know.</p>
<p>^Alexandre, most Ivy's have NO undergrad performance programs. Their strengths lie in the academic areas, in theory and composition, history and musicology. </p>
<p>You will find a number of conservatory level and above instrumentalists and vocalists at the Ivys, as well as a number of highly accomplished (student) composers. Some of these "kids" are already performing professionally, or semi-professionally, have recorded, won or placed in significant major competitions. Many are in non-music academic degree programs. A good number will persue Masters and beyond in performance or composition at the best conservatory, conservatory level grad programs after attaining an unrelated academic degree. </p>
<p>In general, the level of talent is very high, although the instrumental mix may be skewed heavily to stings and piano. </p>
<p>Yale is arguably the best overall, but do not confuse Yale's undergrad program with Yale SOM, which is a grad only program, and is one of the very best worldwide. Harvards strenghts lie more in the composition area, and Princeton's program is also highly regarded. Columbia is also nicely rounded. The others can be iffy, even marginal, in terms of balance and peer level/quality. Though not an Ivy, MIT's program is superb, on a par with Harvard, and close to Yale in reputation.</p>
<p>To the OP, you might be a bit more specific info as to how you are defining music. You will find instrumental and vocal ensemble opportunities at all these, and across all levels. Many are audition based, many are open to all. If you wish to play recreationally, avocationally there are myriad opportunities.</p>
<p>Lessons, study with faculty may be out of pocket, or subsidized, on- site or with a private instructor of your choosing. The policies are school specific and addressed on their respective websites.</p>
<p>The Peabody Institute of Johns Hopkins It is among the best music conservatories affiliated with a university anywhere.
[quote]
The Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University is a conservatory and preparatory school located in the Mount Vernon neighborhood of Baltimore, Maryland at the corner of Charles and Monument Streets at Mount Vernon Place. The Peabody Conservatory of Music, one of the divisions of the Institute, is one of the leading music conservatories in the USA, boasting a renowned faculty and students from across the globe.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/</a></p>
<p>Peabody</a> Institute - Portals: About Peabody
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The Peabody Institute, along with Yale SOM, Oberlin, Curtis, Indiana, Juillard, Eastman, New England are among the elite of the elites...</p>
<p>Great thing about Peabody is that "...because of its affiliation with Johns Hopkins, Peabody students are exposed to a liberal arts curriculum that is more extensive than those of other leading conservatories; likewise, Hopkins students have access to a world-class musical education and experience that they normally would not have access to at another university of such stature."</p>
<p>Shepherd School of Music at Rice is also one of the top and most prestigious music schools in the country.</p>
<p>D is a vocalist...none of the ivies offered performance based music degrees on an undergraduate level. Some offered music lessons, but they were not guaranteed even if she majored in music. (And we were told they went to upperclassmen, primarily.) Music lessons would have had to be an out-of -pocket expense, one that we just could not incur after paying full fare for college. She is at NYU on a music talent scholarship, studying vocal performance.</p>
<p>I know an undergrad musician at Yale who is distinctly underwhelmed by level of the concert band--perhaps the orchestra is better--but very happy about the vocal performance opportunities.</p>
<p>Rice/Shepherd, Oberlin Conservatory, Peabody/Hopkins , Rochester/Eastman, NEC are indeed among the best but these are audition based admits and are conservatory level programs for the serious pursuit of music as professional career preparation.</p>
<p>Yale SOM is a grad/doctoral only program. Yale undergrad music disciplines are academic in nature, are BA's, not BM's and ARE NOT under the auspices of Yale SOM. </p>
<p>Unless I'm mistaken, the OP is not looking for a career development/professional level music collegiate undergrad degree. If they are, then far more detailed and specific background regards discipline, level of training, specialty area is required.</p>
<p>Naming programs without this info is akin to looking for a needle in a haystack. It wastes time, you may end up lucky, but normally, frustrated and empty handed.</p>
<p>Just my $.02.</p>
<p>Hey everyone, thanks for the replies.
Sorry for the lack of specifics and such, I realize that makes it hard... but it was more about my friend. He said he was looking at the Ivies because of their excellent music programs, and I had no idea that any of the Ivies had much to offer musically for undergrads. So I figured I'd ask, to see if I had been mistaken.
He plans on minoring in instrumental jazz performance and pursuing a career unrelated to music, if that's important.
Once again, thanks everyone =).</p>
<p>OP, again, there will be no performance minors, or major performance based programs at the Ivys. He will find a broad range of ability, and ensemble opportunties. I would call none a "hotbed" of jazz, but Yale, Harvard and Columbia would be the best bets just from the active club scenes in Boston and NYC. New Haven's is adequate, and benefits from close proximity to NYC and the spillover of localized incredible talent levels of performing artists.</p>
<p>If he intends to pursue music as an official minor, there are virtually no "performance" minors offered anywhere. Academically, Rice, Oberlin, Hopkins, others and their stand alone music conservatory level programs offer the best combined approach. At the higher level music programs, even music minors where offered are often audition based, are course/ensemble restricted for non majors, and while the quality is often very high, it is not necessarily in combination with the undergrads in the conservatory level programs. A school's music school/department webpages are the best sources of info. Policies are non standard, and are VERY school specific.</p>
<p>
Actually, Penn's music department is also one of the most highly regarded academic music programs in the country. In fact, the last National Research Council ranking of music doctoral programs placed Penn's program at #7, just below Yale's (#5) and Princeton's (#6), and above Columbia's (#12):</p>
<p>
[quote]
1 Harvard 4.59
2 Chicago 4.53
3 Cal Berkeley 4.51
4 CUNY 4.41
5 Yale 4.40
6 Princeton 4.39
7 Penn 4.35
8 Rochester 4.24
9 Michigan 4.16
10 Illinois 4.11
11 Cornell 4.05
12 Columbia 4.05
13 Brandeis 3.85
14 SUNY Stony Brook 3.80
15 Stanford 3.79
16 North Carolina 3.72
17 Texas 3.69
18 UCLA 3.56
19 NYU 3.53
20 Indiana 3.47
[/quote]
</p>
<p>NRC</a> Rankings in Each of 41 Areas</p>
<p>Penn's music department has a long history of eminence in composition (with, e.g., Pulitzer Prize winning composers George Crumb and Richard Wernick as long-time faculty members) and musicology (e.g., world-renowned opera expert Carolyn Abbate left Harvard to join Penn's music department earlier this year: Carolyn</a> Abbate Joins University of Pennsylvania Faculty as Professor of Music : University of Pennsylvania ).</p>
<p>Just to set the record straight. :)</p>
<p>45 Percenter, the OP was asking about performance, not Musicology or Composition.</p>
<p>Alexandre, as my post indicates, I was responding to violadad's post--quoted at the beginning of my post--regarding ACADEMIC music programs within the Ivy League, and not to the OP's original post. But you probably overlooked that. ;)</p>
<p>45 percenter, I was addressing a general question as to "music" at the Ivys, and was providing basic info as to what to expect from an undergrad performance standpoint. The academic music disciplines can indeed be well served at BA as opposed to BM level, but discipline specific needs, particularly in composition tend to be driven by range of faculty, composition styles, and other aspects including the ability and opportunity for a student to work effectively with instructor/mentors, as well as having the opportinity to have student works performed by exceptionally talented instrumentalists/vocalists.</p>
<p>My reference to "music doctoral programs" was a side comment, to eliminate a widespread misconception of (undergrad) performance degree options at the Ivys in general, and to differentiate Yale SOM from the academic undergrad BA music degree options offered. It was not an attempt to "rank" any one institution ahead of any other. I pay little credence to music school rankings in general, particularly for undergrad, as the requirements are often extremely faculty, instrument, and peer quality specific, particularly for those engaged in performance based programs. For the record, one can quite probably arrange a performance based individualized undergrad degree program at any of the Ivy league institutions. There may indeed by a few compelling reasons to do so, but it's not an avenue I would advise without first considering a range of many other better suited options.</p>
<p>As for undergrad versus grad/doctoral level pursuits, from both a performance and academic discipline standpoint, it is also important to note that an exceptional grad level program does not necessarily equate to an exceptional undergrad program. Many noted music institutions provide both, yet some very noted faculty are often engaged as grad level faculty only or on an EXTREMELY limited access basis to a few select undergrads.</p>
<p>It is equally important to note that a respected and prestigious institutional name or reputation does not necessarily equate to an equally effective educational experience across all disciplines, or even specific sub-disciplines.</p>
<p>We can debate rankings and program effectiveness, but in the end no one program is right or better for every student. A degree from Curtis or Juilliard or NEC is no more an indicator of potential future accomplishment or success than a degree from Yale, Princeton or Harvard.</p>
<p>The key in any discipline and course of study is to find the most effective program that works for your goals.</p>
<p>Just my $.02 for what it's worth.</p>
<p>violadad, I understand and agree with your general statements. I was merely responding to your specific assertion that with regard to academic music programs within the Ivy League, other than Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and Columbia, "[t]he others can be iffy, even marginal, in terms of balance and peer level/quality." Clearly this statement does not apply to Penn's music department, which has long been widely regarded as one of the top 10 or so academic music departments in the country.</p>