Right now I’m looking for liberal arts colleges and perhaps some small and undergrad focussed universities that have strong music departments. As I have a wide variety of musical interests, I think a BA program would make the most sense for me. These are the ones I’ve heard about so far:
Schools that I like - Vassar, Wesleyan, Tufts, Brandeis, Skidmore, Sarah Lawrence, Clark.
Schools that I’m a little concerned about fit - Swarthmore (seems like a really stressful environment), Williams and Connecticut College (seem too preppy/athletics focussed), St. Olaf and Muhlenberg (religious affiliations, might be too traditional).
Schools I like but am worried about having to compete with conservatory students - Oberlin, Bard, Lawrence.
Any feedback on these lists and my concerns? Also, I know I have a lot of options already, but if there are any more schools I should consider, I would love to hear about them!
It depends on what areas concern you for competition at schools like Bard and Oberlin. If you want to be in the top ensembles - yes, you’ll need to be at the level which would have gotten you admitted to the conservatory in the first place. However, if you want to take advantage of the extensive options in music history, theory, analysis (and composition at Bard, at least) that these schools offer - then having other strong music students in the classes shouldn’t be an issue. There will also be a lot of musical activity on campus - and concerts to go to almost every day. Also, Bard, Lawrence and Oberlin will probably all offer strong adjunct, or college rather than conservatory, faculty for private lessons. It’s possible that of the three Lawrence sets a lower wall between the college and conservatory ensembles for participation.
All in all, I think you have a great list. And I would move Williams up to your top list. You might also consider the Claremont Colleges if you want to add a Western option. And University of Puget Sound would be worth a look.
Having just returned from a visit to U. of Puget Sound, I’ll enthusiastically vouch for the strength of their music program. They are accredited and have about 120 majors, including some pursuing a B.M. We heard their wind ensemble rehearse and I thought they were outstanding. I LOVED their wind ensemble director – super positive while still setting very high musical expectations. Plus, their repertoire was really cool. Can’t comment on the orchestra, since we didn’t see that.
Since it sounds like you’re not looking for a place that’s too sporty or preppy, I would describe the vibe on the UPS campus as feeling like you’ve walked into a food co-op: very earthy and laid-back, with tons of kids into outdoor adventuring. Not on quite the academic level as some of the top-tier schools on your list, but the professors we met seemed great and were extremely generous with their time. And my son thought the music theory prof whose class he sat in on was incredible. He loved the place.
My niece is a non-con instrumentalist double-majoring in music and another discipline at Bard, and she loves it. She has a lot of opportunities to play and perform. It’s in a pretty remote rural area, so if you love gorgeous countryside, you will love it, but if you’re a city person you might not enjoy the environment as much as say, Swarthmore, which is a quick train ride to downtown Philadelphia. I’ve also heard great things about Puget Sound for music.
I completely agree with SpiritManager regarding Williams. An excellent all around LAC music department. very strong in composition. As far as Oberlin goes, there is the opportunity to audition for lessons within the conservatory. The teacher assigned depends on the strength of the audition. Entry level courses are available to musical studies majors but conservatory students do get preference. Above entry level are pretty much conservatory students only. However several of the musical studies courses in the college are taught by conservatory faculty. There are also ensembles at Oberlin that are mainly comprised of LAC students. In addition, there is simply so much music at Oberlin including many groups put together by LAC students. Conservatory students share the same dorms as students in the college.
Thank you for all the responses so far! I had not known much about University of Puget Sound before, I will definitely look into it.
@SpiritManager , I’m not necessarily looking to join top ensembles, and as a pianist and singer, competition for orchestra seats is definitely not a concern for me. But I would like to sing in at least one chorus and probably participate in some instrumental chamber groups as well. At Bard (which judging from your previous posts you know the most about), I know there is no undergraduate voice program in the conservatory, so the chorus would probably be less competitive, right? Do you know how competitive the chamber groups would be?
@compmom does Macalester have a strong music department? I keep hearing mixed things about it (though I love everything else about it as a school).
I think, for music, you would want Haverford, not Swarthmore. Both are excellent schools but with different vibes. The stress at Swarthmore is very real. My music child is looking only at conservatories, so I might be wrong, but I seem to recall when visiting Haverford that they were proud of their music department. The TriCo schools are very small and so I think they share arts programs; e.g., I think drama is based at Bryn Mawr, music at Haverford.
@lalalemma The undergrad vocal program at Bard is within the BA in the college. There are no conservatory undergrad singers - so the vocal ensembles are all made up of the regular college students (which the conservatory students also are.) As for how competitive for voice - one does need to be accepted into the vocal track at moderation. One of my son’s good friends was not accepted so she ended up getting her degree as a general music major focused on musicology, but she still sang in the choirs, took singing lessons and classes, and now sings in the Collegiate Chorale in NYC. I believe there is one non audition choir, in addition to the auditioned vocal ensembles. There is also a Georgian Choir open to everyone which is very popular.
As for the chamber ensembles - the chamber groups in the conservatory will rarely be open to students not in the conservatory - as they are a required class. However, there are chamber ensembles in the college music program open to everyone, which are for credit in the music department. Some of the music faculty is shared between the conservatory and college - such as almost all the composition professors, the musicology professors, and a few of the performance teachers. But the vocal teachers are separate for the graduate and undergrad programs. And the piano teachers are different. Blair McMillan, who is one of the piano teachers in the college, also teaches some of the chamber ensemble classes in the college. (He’s a member of the Da Capo Payers.)
In addition - everyone lives together - as at Oberlin. Students form their own musical ensembles outside the official collegiate ones. And conservatory students mix readily with non conservatory - and every possible style of music is played.
@unscripted - I’ve always heard that Swarthmore was one of the best liberal arts colleges for music. Admittedly, this was coming from the perspective of composition - but in addition, Swarthmore has the reputation of strongly supporting private instrumental lessons. From the website http://www.swarthmore.edu/music/private-lessons: The department offers private music lessons to many students. We do not have a performance faculty; instead, we help to match students with excellent private teachers. We provide a subsidy – in some cases, 100 percent of the cost of lessons – and give academic credit for private lessons. In addition, the most accomplished music students may apply to receive transportation expenses to study with teachers off campus." Students have access (and financial support) to teachers in Philadelphia and New York City. (In looking at Haverford’s program they only offer partial subsidies for lessons - with teachers in the Philadelphia area.)
Admittedly - just now looking at the music course list, it isn’t as extensive as Bard’s, but it is a bit more extensive than Haverford’s. It would be interesting to compare the course list to Williams. @lalalemma - which brings up something you should do - compare the actual music courses each semester at the schools you’re considering. You may start to get a feel for the differences between them. You might also look at what the requirements are for the music major at the different schools.
One of my daughters graduated from Swarthmore. i think it’s quite good for choral music, although I cannot speak to nearby Bryn Mawr and Haverford. As for stress; there is that at Swarthmore. Not everyone feels it to the same degree, but the vibe at the college is intense. One really nice advantage of Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr, Haverford, and the University of Pennsylvania is that they are part of the Quaker Consortium-- students can take courses at all four institutions. Fewer students from Penn attend classes at the LACs because the course offerings at the university are more varied, but students from Swat, Bryn Mawr, and Haverford do take advantage of this opportunity.
I live in the Twin Cities. Macalester has a wonderful academic reputation. However serious music students in this area would consider Lawrence and/or St. Olaf (or McNally Smith - kind of up and coming for contemporary music). I have heard Macalester has a decent music program and many ensemble opportunities. So if you are more concerned with academic strength and just want to continue in music, I think it would be fine. However if you are looking for a “strong”, reputable music program, Macalester does not have that reputation here. I hope I didn’t offend anyone but that is my honest opinion from living in the area and being involved in the music/theatre scene for many years.
I think this depends on instrument. I contacted the horn prof at Oberlin directly regarding this possibility for my son and he flatly said he does not teach non-conservatory students.
rayrick - I’m sorry I was not clearer when I used the term teacher. I meant teacher of lessons as opposed to teacher in the Conservatory. I did not mean to leave the impression that it would a conservatory professor. Conservatory faculty only give supplemental lessons to conservatory students if the student’s lesson audition was of such a quality as to merit that level of instructor. Most college students’ supplemental lessons are taught by conservatory students either Artist Diploma or upper class students.
Our school’s music teacher went to Macalaster and leads a rich musical life, teaching, playing in a regional orchestra, and playing in an alternative rock/cabaret band. He went to Columbia for a master’s in order to teach. But that does not mean it is an excellent music program, only that we happen to know a grad who is thriving!
We also know a student at Davidson, who was sort of a piano prodigy when young and moved into cello and singing, and she has been happy there.
We have had some personal experiences with Tufts’ wonderful music department.
We know a wonderful male singer who is at St.Olaf’s. I know a young person/composer at College of Wooster who is also happy.
Williams is a great school, period
Anecdotes are individual and may or may not be helpful, so these comments are probably not very helpful
I do think that looking at websites, course requirements and offerings, info on lessons and performance opportunities, checking out faculty, and visiting are really the best ways to really investigate. So yes, the question becomes, which ones to investigate and which ones to visit and you have a great list, with some possible suggestions for additions that might be helpful- but even without, you are in good shape You can of course thrive at many schools.
I posted this to a different thread, but I thought it might be helpful to have it here, since it’s very apropos to the thread title. When we talked to the director of the music department at UPS he mentioned that he’d done a little study of which schools could be considered “peer institutions” of UPS from a music-within-a-LAC standpoint. His criteria were Carnegie-classified LACs with a large number of music majors (at least around 100), and accredited music programs. I think accessibility to non-majors was also a criterion, ruling out places like Oberlin. He said it was only about a dozen schools. I can’t remember every name he listed, but here are the ones I can remember:
St. Olaf
Lawrence
Gettysburg
Wheaton
UPS
Furman
Illinois Wesleyan
Luther
Concordia
Houghton
You can think of this as a list of schools where music isn’t just strong, but a genuinely big deal in the overall landscape of the college. The schools that sound like the best fit for you have already been mentioned, but I thought I’d put it out there.
100 music majors at an LAC is a lot. Many of the top LAC’s (and universities) academically have many gifted music students, and some have very strong departments with deep offerings - but many of the students in the program will be majoring in something else. So this 100 skews the list towards a certain type of program.
Probably it would have been more accurate to say that those are schools that have a real “School of Music” rather than merely a strong “Music Department”. It was in no way intended to limit the universe of LACs with good music to those in the list.
Davidson? Macalaster? College of Wooster?