<p>@jazz, apparently you must be a Trojan, as we’re having a hard time in the communications area. I get you’re a graduate from that fine institution, and there is nothing wrong with supporting your university, but let’s not get carried away with the ranking thing. Oh and BTW - there is no official ranking for music schools, it’s all subjective. And to clarify, I am not from South Carolina nor did I go there, I just feel compelled to ensure people get a balanced, objective viewpoint on here.</p>
<p>Thanks for the confirmation, Rokr93 - my source had them offer the switch to sound design but it wasn’t what he was after (he wanted a program more like PAT…speaking of which, hope your search is going well…)</p>
<p>StoneMagic, seriously, I know you were addressing jazz mom, but I am not a Trojan and have no affiliation with USC and can legitimately say that however great U-South Carolina may be regionally in your neck of the woods it simply does not enjoy the same national name recognition – rightly or wrongly – as USC THORNTON. </p>
<p>I do not suspect jazzmom’s posts are meant as a personal affront to what appears from other posts to be your 2012 student’s favorite admit. </p>
<p>There is nothing balanced or objective, IMHO, of suggesting that USC Thornton DOES NOT enjoy national name recognition, or to suggest that highly trained musicians who’ve achieved regional accomplishment and studied at summer programs with top instructors would necessarily confuse the USC’s. To suggest otherwise is a wee bit disingenuous.</p>
<p>Stone, we are indeed having a communication problem. Clearly you are not reading my posts in their entirety (or kcmom13’s, or others), if at all. Please do read this one. </p>
<p>You seem to think I am touting one university over another. I am not. </p>
<p>For the millionth time, I am talking about why here ON THIS MUSIC FORUM, USC has always meant (well before I got here three years ago) and will likely always continue to mean, without further specification, the Thornton School of Music. I have no objection to you or anyone else suggesting that people spell out which USC they mean on this music forum, but I predict your labors will be fruitless.</p>
<p>And I am not a Trojan–in fact I’m a graduate of a rival school. Although I do have a student at the USC Thornton School of Music. (He, btw, would never call himself a Trojan either, but suppose he can’t get around that.)</p>
<p>And btw, while with my son and his friend on their application “audition circuit” a couple of years ago… at all the “usual suspect schools” BACK EAST, there was much “where else are you auditioning” talk. In that company, with answers that included NEC, MSM, Juilliard, Berklee, and The New School for Jazz and Contemporary Music etc, everyone knew instantly that the USC our kids were referring to was… The Thornton School of Music. </p>
<p>With one exception. A parent from South Carolina. Until that parent’s musician son piped in “they mean Thornton, Dad. Where Midori teaches.”</p>
<p>You can continue to pretend I’m making another argument, but I am done.</p>
<p>This thread has taken on the tone of a bunch of soccer parents or chess parents or something like that. Let’s not play zero sum games and put schools down. We all have our favorites. Root for them but not at the expense of another school or schools. We know USC means different things to different people. Let’s live with that and try and be clear in our posts.</p>
<p>^Amen to that.</p>
<p>Taanje, to me, it is still unclear what you want. Many of the schools you list will not have
“music technology stuff… like recording a studio album or learning how to mix different audio tracks”, because they are academic music programs. That means, to me, that technology will be studied but only in service to the goal of composition, or creative use of music with multimedia, and so on. So you don’t learn how to deliver the music via technology as a skill in and of itself, but you learn to create the music, and the technology is in support of that. </p>
<p>Are you a composer? Do you want to study music theory, music history, ethnomusicology and so on? Can you say a little more about what you want?</p>
<p>Here is the Brown info (scroll down for the technology strand of the music major for a BA):</p>
<p>[Brown</a> University Department of Music](<a href=“Music | Brown University”>Music | Brown University)</p>
<p>There are schools that have programs/majors in music production, music industry, recording technology and so on but the type of schools on your list - and selective LAC’s in general - generally do not.</p>
<p>From what I can manage to gather from your post, I would suggest, again, Oberlin (college or conservatory, depending on what you want), also maybe Bard (college or conservatory), Hampshire, Bennington, Sarah Lawrence, Vassar, Clark which are schools where you could maybe get into some interdisciplinary work. </p>
<p>You could also look into blending some kind of engineering and music-? ? Look at MIT’s website: they have a great music department. But then there are some liberal arts that you want to get into, so perhaps that is not the environment you want.</p>
<p>Northeastern University and state universities sometimes have music technology/production classes. In the Northeast, that is all I know about.</p>
<p>Again, and sorry to repeat myself, but clarifying your terms and goals might help.</p>
<p>HAHHAA Yeah… I’m not really sure what I want. I don’t really know how to look for strong music technology programs instead of just strong music programs in general. I come across good music school forums and assume that if they’re a good music school, that they’ll probably have a good music technology department too. Guess I’m wrong about that. What are some keywords that are similar that I could look for?</p>
<p>I’m a classically trained violinist and pianist that enjoys singing and playing guitar for fun. What I’m interested in learning about is basically I guess composing and learning how technology can fit into that aspect. I’m not so much a composer as someone who wants to learn how to arrange music… like songs that are already out there and learning how to make them sound my own. Does that make sense? Kind of like those youtube artists that make a living off of covering other songs.</p>
<p>I know I am really contradictory in my requests, but I guess it mainly comes down to strong academics (history/IR-wise) and strong music program… don’t care much for math/science, though I’ll have to learn some if I want to do this music tech stuff, I’m sure. The rest of the requirements are not as important to me. It’d be nice to have them considered, but I’m mainly focused on my learning.</p>
<p>With this in mind, what are the best options for me? And also, would it be good for me to submit audio recordings or not? I’m working on some personal studio stuff but I’m not sure how good they are in comparison to everyone else.</p>
<p>Taahje, my son is in the same position as you. You have gotten great advice above, so you should research these schools and see if they fit your needs. We found “googling” the school and “Music Technology” was a good way to go. If you don’t want to be in a music conservatory, like Oberlin’s TIMARA program, and you want high-level academics, Stanford Univ has a Music, Science & Technolog (MST) major, for example. Brown has a program called MEME. UCSD has a music technology emphasis. If you don’t want to be in the music department, Loyola Marymount has their Recording Arts major, which is housed in their film department. </p>
<p>Please research all the schools suggested to you above–UMichigan has a wonderful program, and you have an expert in it here (KMMcrindle), who also has knowledge of Indiana U’s program and others.</p>
<p>I would strongly suggest submitting the Arts Supplement of the Common App to all of these schools, with your resume in Music technology and composition, and recordings of your work, with equipment and methodology. Especially when you’re not applying to conservatory and/or auditioning, the Arts Supplement will help you get to your desired department during the application process.</p>
<p>If you want to compose original pieces in the classical, or in some cases, jazz style, and want to learn how to compose electroacoustic music (including some of the technology involved) or multimedia creations, then a conservatory (BM), music school (BM), or academic college music major (BA) might all fit. </p>
<p>It is not true that excellent conservatories and music schools will teach music technology in the sense of recording technology and that kind of thing. But there are schools that do, which people here can tell you about (I mentioned Northeastern and UMass).</p>
<p>If you want to arrange music, and want to work on songs, you might be happier studying song writing and maybe enter a contemporary/popular music program, which people here can tell you about (Berklee, Belmong, USC Thornton?).</p>
<p>As I said before, another route might be LAC’s that have some flexibility or individually designed majors, like Bennington, Sarah Lawrence, Hampshire, Vassar. Bard might also be a great school for you: I don’t know, but Spirit Manager knows about it.</p>
<p>These schools would also give you an opportunity to study other things, like international relations (Tufts and Clark U. in Massachusetts are great for this).</p>
<p>If you are classically trained, does that include theory? Do you want to continue with violin and piano, or have you moved on? It is still hard to get a handle on what you are after, but from what I have seen, I am not so sure that TIMARA or Brown’s program are what you want. They do deal with technology but as I said before, they are basically academic music programs, and are usually focused on composition of original works.</p>
<p>Again, sorry for repeating myself.</p>
<p>I mentioned this elsewhere but CCM has a new major as of Fall of '12: </p>
<p>[New</a> Undergraduate Major Offered in Commercial Music Production](<a href=“Error | University of Cincinnati”>http://www.uc.edu/news/NR.aspx?id=14810)</p>
<p>(and by CCM I do not mean “County College of Morris” which appears above it on a google search for “CCM”, lol)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>^Wow. Thanks for posting! That’s interesting.</p>
<p>^Jobrown, CC is not to be used for advertising.</p>
<p>Hope it helps SimpleLife. When my S interviewed there (on a visit), the director of the jazz studies dept was very excited about it.</p>
<p>My S opted not to apply to it mainly because he is not interested in composition (so far) and this major assumes some proficiency with that already. As the jazz head put it, “it’s not about recording other people’s music, it’s more geared to recording your own”. That, plus the film scoring, business and other classes seems cool to me. CCM also has an e-media major from which it appears some grads have become video game music producers. So much cool stuff out there :)</p>
<p>^Exactly. It looks like a great major for those who are passionate about music but ultimately decide NOT to go with a performance career. It could also be an excellent second degree for music majors. I realize that would make 2 bachelor’s degrees – but the material sounds like it could be very useful as well as interesting!</p>
<p>The new degree’s not in CCM’s 2011-2012 bulletin yet (of course), so I don’t know the requirements for the degree, but I’m guessing that a person with a performance degree could probably take an extra year or two and earn this additional degree. It sounds like it could be really useful out in the real world.</p>
<p>I don’t want to study classical music formally, but I hope to continue my studies perhaps in a non-formal tutor system or something. I’ve done a lot of music theory at the music school that I live nearby. But I’ve never actually composed something or played around with music technology yet… I’m just really interested in what it’d be like-- I think those popular music programs are more on the right track than music business. I do not like jazz very much at all…</p>
<p>The schools I was actually most interested in were Yale and Williams, since they both have top IR programs and I thought they had decent music programs… though I’m not sure about the music tech part. Also, what about LAC consortiums (Claremont/Quaker/Five College in MA)? Is there any one school of those consortiums that offer a good music tech program? I hear Scripps has a decent music department too…</p>
<p>Also, compmom, what do you mean by academic music programs? I don’t mind learning about music formally if that’s what you mean… I enjoy music theory/history and stuff too, if thats what you were hinting at.</p>
<p>Also, @SJTH-- the Stanford/Brown program sound really, REALLY good to me! Are there any other schools that have programs like that as well? :D</p>
<p>Taanje, one thing to be aware of is that some top music tech programs are actually similar to the bmus degree insofar as they’re professional degrees in themselves that are building on some pre-existing development of composition and technical talent, and involve a highly specialized sequence of requirements. So if your interest is secondary to IR, for example, and you aren’t yet at a competitive place in the field, you do not necessarily need to find a “top” program in order to pursue music tech informally – because you wouldn’t actually have access to the major classes anyway unless you were admitted by portfolio. Eg., at my son’s school, there may be a handful of classes available to non-majors, but the lionshare of classes are for majors only, because they’re sequential and build off the highly specific sequence and can only take a very limited number of students due to the equipment, studio resources, and practical limitations of listening to each others work (eg 10-12 students in the introductory level).
So I don’t know if you should let that aspect drive your college search when there are myriad ways to informally develop the rudiments of some of those skills, at home, at workshops, in summer programs, etc.</p>
<p>A second caveat is that when you say you don’t like math or science, do you nonetheless excel at it? Don’t know a single student in my sons class who is not both highly proficient at math and programming, plus physics. His particular program requires a min. 28 ACT in math, and courses in object oriented programming and psychoacoustics, which is steeped in physics. So top programs where there’s an engineering element might not actually be attractive to you.</p>
<p>If, on the other hand, you are equally interested in music tech/production as a dual degree, you still have time to get some training and a portfolio under your belt, which would be a requirement for the more immersive types of programs (eg umich, usc, indiana u, nyu tisch, mcgill, miami frost.) In that case, see if you can dual enroll at your local college to take a few computer music/recording classes, or see if you can get accepted to
a summer program, or if you can intern at a studio. Invest in some good recording interface gear and experiment at home. Offer to multitrack ensembles at your school and practice mixing the tracks. If you do all of that, you’ll soon have a sense of whether you’d like to continue, and even if you weren’t accepted (yet) at those types of programs next year, you could then select a school that has the degree available and portfolio-in for your second year (some kids at umich have managed to do this. One of the current students is pursuing after his first full degree, for example.)</p>
<p>I hope I’m not confusing you further, but these are the considerations you face. My son was very dogged in his pursuit, but there were times in hs that he also considered a more academic degree at smaller schools (he loved u. Chicago in particular) but ultimately determined that for the depth he sought, he needed the type of program he’s in. I know it’s a bit of a tough spot to be in, but in a specialized field you really can’t do it all and eventually have to focus in rather tightly. He’s a junior now, and I don’t thinks he’s had room in his schedule for a traditional academic course (eg something not related to his degree, such as English, which he loves) for a year or more ;)</p>
<p>^Great advice, kmcmom. Not knowing much about technical music degree programs myself, I wondered about all of that and suspected that was the case. I have always been intrigued with high school kids who were prepared to present actual portfolios to architecture schools, music composition schools, and the like. I can see why some are prepared to audition for performance degrees in college – music lessons are readily available from an early age. But music composition or architecture portfolios? The likelihood of being exposed to such things as a young elementary, middle, or high school student seems slim. It’s intriguing to me.</p>
<p>Yes, in a way, the applicants to those programs are a bit self-selecting as 90% of the time they will have had to actively pursue their passion outside of readily available avenues. But if they love it, ultimately they will. In my son’s case, his g/t college prep program was so small there were no music tech offerings the way there are at some comprehensive schools. But he had the benefit of a very strong music program and playing with ensembles in live settings that required mixing/live reinforcement. Even before that, he constantly recorded, mixed, or composed in garage band (which has liberated many to have the freedom to experiment at home) by grades 8 and 9, so he was able to take computer music and production courses by special permission at a local college while in hs. Through that avenue, he also ended up being able to study privately as well, and had the benefit of composition feedback through competitions etc. So by the time he was a senior, he actually had sufficient portfolio material that he’d been developing the prior year. He also benefitted from internships via his hs, and received a lot of support in his school environment (eg the multimedia teacher would have him produce sound for projects, school clubs would have him produce a/v PSAs, etc.) but all of that was subsequent to his own initiative to learn on his own. Programs know that not everyone has the means to the technology (at least in an advanced way) so they look for and listen for the raw parts, but they also know that in today’s more economically accessible tech world, if someone is really driven to pursue this avenue they will find a way.</p>
<p>For many years we all viewed this as nothing more than a hobby, and actually thought mcson would study a combination of English and film and be a writer (he even said so himself;) but during a pivotal discussion in the latter part of grade 10, an incisive friend of mine asked us both what he spent the majority of time doing in his “free time”, what it was that he would “get lost in.” The truth was he would loose sleep any day to write, produce/multitrack his own songs, or experiment with related elements. We realized then that that was what he’d be happiest studying. He’s still a very good writer and makes film on the side, and he alleges he’ll put those skills to work to earn a living if need be, but he’s happiest making music ;)</p>
<p>The process made me realize how valuable that question was, and it’s a good one to ask oneself when faced with so many great opportunities.</p>
<p>
When DH was resisting DD’s switch to music I asked the same thing. He coached her soccer team and she was really very good. She was doing well in the advanced IB Biology in preparation for a science career. But she never took the soccer ball out except for official practice and did no independent scientific research even in her alleged interest of marine biology but spent hours working out songs. He saw the light and started supporting her choices.</p>