<p>
[quote]
Some schools are perfect for everybody
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's just not true, though. I'd HATE it at any of the schools you mentioned...because they're too big. But all the LACs I loved wouldn't fit various other criteria on your list...there is no such thing as a perfect school for everyone, just lots of different schools that are perfect for different people :D I mean, I'd say Wes is a fantastic undergrad experiance--literally everything I could wish for at this point--but anyone who wants major intense school spirit or DI division sports would hate it!</p>
<p>I think that an undergraduate academic experience is heavily impacted by three things:</p>
<ol>
<li> the quality of the students that you attend with;</li>
<li> the size of the classroom at the school; and </li>
<li> the quality and accessibility of the faculty that you will learn from<br></li>
</ol>
<p>Combined with an institution's ability and willingness to commit resources to assist students and faculty, I believe that these factors will most dramatically affect your undergraduate experience. </p>
<p>Thus, I would modify Alexandre's list from above to: </p>
<h1>1A Great fellow students whose company you benefit from inside and outside of the classroom and whose friendships you will enjoy for the rest of your life</h1>
<h1>1B Challenging classes for those who seek them and offered in a classroom size that allows for meaningful interaction between and among students and professors (not TAs)</h1>
<h1>1C Strong departments in your field(s) of study with faculty that have undergraduate teaching as their focus and who have the ability to effectively communicate and teach</h1>
<p>Other important considerations:
• A college environment that breeds respect for and appreciation for the school, its traditions, its people, etc. </p>
<p>• A campus life that accepts a variety of social lifestyles including your own</p>
<p>• An institutional ability to place you, whether through strong school relationships or alumni contacts, in industries and/or graduate schools that might be important to you</p>
<p>Weskid, Amherst, Brown, Dartmouth, Duke and Princeton are all small-below average in terms of size and I would definitely classify them as being very well rounded.</p>
<p>alex,
I'm not sure I understand your point above. Are you saying that you can't find a diversity of social lifestyles and good placement opportunities at schools outside of the USNWR Top 50? Please clarify.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Weskid, Amherst, Brown, Dartmouth, Duke and Princeton are all small-below average in terms of size and I would definitely classify them as being very well rounded.
[/quote]
I visited Brown. I liked it a lot...but it was still too big for me, as are the rest (except Amherst, which had other problems with fit for me). My point isn't that these aren't great, well rounded schools...they are, and I probably would have been very happy at at least Brown, and perhaps Amherst (less so at the others). But you claimed that there are some schools that a PERFECT for EVERYONE...it's not true (and even if you replace "perfect" with really, really, really great, I still don't think it's true). There are certianly some schools that are more likley to be pretty good for a larger number of students that others, but that's not the same at all. I really don't think there is any school that would equally please someone whose ideal school is Reed AND somone whose ideal school is UT Austin. And this isn't even looking at factors like specific majors (ex: none of the schools you listed have a powerhouse film department like Wes does...an important factor in my book, though not in other's). </p>
<p>ETA: I really like hawkette critiera--it's more subjective, as, IMO, it should be (since, as I've said, there is no such thing as a univesally perfect school).</p>
<p>The "best undergraduate experience" is obviously a totally subjective point. However, there is one objective statistic that US News (and others) do use as a measure of student satisfaction, which is the "alumni giving ratio". </p>
<p>This stat is based on the percentage of all alumni who donate money to their school in any given year. Note that it is based on the rate of alumni participation, and not on the total dollar amount contributed. The theory is that happy alumni are more likely to voluntarily contribute to their school than unhappy alumni. </p>
<p>By this measure, the most satisfied alumni tend to be those who graduated from top liberal arts colleges. The top LACs can expect most of their living alumni (more than 50%) to send them a check in any given year. </p>
<p>I glanced at the most recent US News rankings. There appeared to be some 10-15 nationally-ranked LACs above the 50% alumni giving mark, and a number of others that were close. Among nationally-ranked universities, Princeton and Dartmouth appeared to be the only ones that reached the 50% rate; Notre Dame was close.</p>
<p>It may not be realistic to apply this stat across different types of schools. For example, graduates of public universities may be less likely to donate, because they feel that they already contribute through their taxes. However, it probably does have some validity within a particular group of schools. Among private universities, for example, it is fair to say that Princeton, Dartmouth, and Notre Dame are known for their strong alumni loyalty.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what Ledzip is talking about...Dartmouth has a 8-1 student/ faculty ratio, a number that has IMPROVED over the last 5 years. Most of these faculty are exclusively focused on teaching undergrads. Dartmouth spends CONSIDERABLY more on advising and undergrad related activities (career services, etc) than any other Ivy. </p>
<p>Ledzip has no idea what he/ she is talking about. Dartmouth has only increased its undergrad focus if anything.</p>
<p>There have been a few threads that I have seen over the past year asking for something like this. If I recall, some National Universities frequently mentioned as providing the best undergraduate experience were:</p>
<p>Stanford
Duke
Vanderbilt
Dartmouth
Princeton
USC
Notre Dame
Rice
Colgate
Northwestern
U Virginia
UC Berkeley
UCLA
U Michigan
U North Carolina
U Wisconsin</p>
<p>I guess people just try to exclude academics powerhouses such as MIT, UChicago, Johns Hopkins, Swarthmore, Reed when they talk about best undergraduate experience. But I like Princeton Review better - academics challenge is the 21-shots for cool college kids, not for cheerleaders.</p>
<p>I'm surprised Vanderbilt hasn't been mentioned by anyone other than Hawkette. It's solidly within USNW's top 20 academically, but still a DI athletic school that is - especially in the last few years - more than competitive both in the SEC and nationally. The campus is gorgeous - a national arboretum located in metropolitan Nashville.</p>
<p>Clearly, it can't compete with MIT, Cal Tech, the Ivies, etc. academically, but the second tier schools (Vandy, Duke, Notre Dame, and the like) often offer a much more multi-faceted (I'm hesitant to say "complete") experience than purely academic schools.</p>
<p>Stanford is in an upper, upper middle class suburb -- not a college town, and not particularly accessible to a city. That alone makes it a less than ideal fit for students seeking a student-friendly location like Ann Arbor or an urban adventure like New York City. It's a major research university, where advancement is based on publishing rather than teaching, and doesn't have a residential college system. That makes it less than an ideal fit for those seeking the kind of experience they'd find at an LAC. Though it has some excellent humanities departments, its student body is heavily weighted towards engineering/sciences, making it a better fit for someone interested in MIT than someone attracted by St. Johns. Its emphasis on athletics, including offering athletic scholarships that are prohibited in the Ivy League, makes it a great place for those who like to cheer for teams, but not a great place for those who might prefer a college where they could participate in athletics themselves at a less competitive level than they would need to play for Stanford.</p>
<p>I'm not Stanford bashing. I'm only demonstrating what others have noted, it's silly to talk about overall undergraduate experience without reference to the particular undergraduate in question.</p>
<p>I agree.... the school that's going to win in this "overall undergraduate experience" debate is the school that appears to have something for everyone rather than the school that's best for you.</p>
<p>The school that strikes me as the most "something for everyone" is Berkeley. When I toured colleges, I developed a major crush on Berkeley and didn't warm to Stanford that much.</p>
<p>I like the criteria that Alexandre uses. And I think it describes the University of Washington perfectly. For location (outskirts of Seattle), type of student it draws, academic and research opportunities, social life, arts scene, school spirit and loyal alums--it's got something for everyone.</p>