Hello, I am a 10th grader who is interested in physics. I know of some colleges that I’d love to attend for physics, but I want a few more. I have looked at rankings on websites, but I do not want to choose a college solely on that. Any help on some universities or lac would mean a lot!
It might be helpful first to figure out if you want a LAC or university, since that would greatly narrow down the search. Also helpful would be to know more about the general experience you are looking for
In general - although of course not all universities have the same endowment - universities will have more resources readily available there. The problem is, you’re second after their graduate students who get first dibs on most everything (unless the university really stresses undergraduate research). Also, some of your courses may be taught be grad students instead of professors.
Almost every liberal arts college will have an actual professor teaching even the intro courses, and generally have smaller sizes, although even at the most overly populated universities, not many people taking upper division physics, so size shouldn’t be as huge a factor for physics as it would be elsewhere. The having the professors teach the courses does make a huge difference though. The downside is less resources for experimental physics. The question that they might not publicly announce but would be totally legitimate to email the department and as is what REU (research experience for undergraduates), internships, and other summer research projects their students do. If even just a very few number get an actual national REU, it’s probably a very good program, as those are very selective. LACs might also have really good connections, which is how I got an undergraduate summer research position at one of my top grad schools. And places like NASA often take interns during the summer. So while the research at the LAC generally (excluding STEM LACs like Harvey Mudd) less well funded, it does open doors to do summers elsewhere.
Another consideration is whether or not you’re sure enough to be locked into physics/STEM. Liberal arts colleges generally make switching majors easier (I went from writing to physics with absolutely no problem whatsoever). Some colleges and universities may make it difficult to switch out of physics to anything, or make it so you can only switch among other STEM subjects. So unless you’re 100% sure that physics is all you’re interested in, that would be something else to keep in mind.
In addition to the things Scrippsie mentioned, there are other considerations when searching for a school, including location, whether you prefer rural or urban, budget, interest in Greek life, big football, and other social elements, etc. In addition, while we can list schools with good physics programs, no recommendations can be made for you without knowing your GPA and standardized testing performance (or at least predicted performance, based on PSAT, timed practice tests, etc.)
In terms of LACs, students from these colleges have received Apker Awards (for undergraduate research in physics):
Harvey Mudd
Williams
Swarthmore
Amherst
Haverford
Hamilton
Wesleyan
Colgate
Reed
Macalester
Middlebury
Oberlin
Mt. Holyoke
Franklin & Marshall
Bucknell
Of the above, these schools have had graduates who have won a Nobel Prize in a science field:
Swarthmore
Amherst
Haverford
Hamilton
Oberlin
Do you have any idea of what your budget for college is going to be. Actual cost is a determining factor for a lot of students.
Fwiw, check into the frequency of course offerings. Make sure that 2 course sequences exist for E&M and quantum. My ds also took a 2 course sequence in classical/physical mechanics though it seems like another common option is to condense it into a single course called intermediate. There should also be advanced lab.
Students from any university can apply to REUs.
Since you are in high school, make absolutely sure that you are rock solid in math.
The undergraduate physics major has a fairly common set of “core” junior/senior level courses:
- intermediate/advanced mechanics
- statistical and thermal physics
- electromagnetism (often two semesters)
- quantum mechanics (often two semesters)
- intermediate/advanced physics lab
There may be electives like astrophysics and others.
You can go through on-line course catalogs to see what courses are offered. But also check the schedules to see how often each course is offered. Once every two years is the bare minimum (but then you must take the course when offered, even if it is at an inconvenient time or less desired instructor); once every year or semester gives you more flexibility.
In terms of switching majors, physics is rarely a popular enough major that it requires any competitive admission due to capacity limitations (indeed, sometimes the opposite problem occurs due to insufficient interest in physics major courses so that they may get cancelled). However, frosh/soph physics and math sequences must be taken to stay on track, so you need to start such sequences early.
At large universities, the frosh/soph physics and math courses are often large, due to being shared with engineering majors (biology majors and pre-meds often have different versions with less math). However, if there are honors versions offered, these are likely to be much smaller.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek, I was bringing it up as one of the options for how to see if a LAC still has opportunities to do real, similar to graduate level research even if they don’t have the resources a big university would. And obviously anyone from any college can apply to an internship as well. I just made a special point of it for LACs since generally that’s one of the things prospies interested in STEM bring up as their hesitation for attending a LAC. And since there are still plenty of opportunities, I’d hate for someone who might be happier at a LAC to pass it up because they didn’t know that.
@ucbalumnus Being shared with engineering majors would also be common for LACs, particularly for LACs with 3/2 engineering programs, as it wouldn’t make much sense to have two completely separate majors. The only difference then would be size since presumably a LAC would keep their numbers small. Presumably. Doesn’t always happen.
Also, your sample schedule is on point. Almost exactly what I have to take too. And I’m guessing UCB is Berkeley? So if a state school and a LAC have very similar schedules, then I’m guessing that will probably hold true for most.
@Scrippsie The OP is a high school sophomore. Things that might seem obvious, probably aren’t. The OP might not be aware that students from any institution can apply for them.
For the OP, REU stands for Research Expereience for Undergrads and they can be an important part of the UG experience. But, academic yr research at your home institution can also be an important experience. So, I would look into that as well.
In terms of REUs, they are a fabulous opportunity, but which factors carry the most weight? UG institution or the student’s accomplishments? I honestly have no idea. ???
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The core courses for majoring in physics (and preparing for physics PhD study) are very well defined compared to many other majors, so any school with a decent physics major should offer a set of courses along those lines (but elective courses beyond those can vary). But (not necessarily just at LACs) very small physics departments, or those which exist primarily to offer service courses to other majors, may be lacking in some of the courses, or offer them too infrequently, so prospective students should check the schedules for that.
Accomplishments trump where you did your undergraduate in industry, by a significant margin even according to most studies. But sometimes what undergraduate college you’re at could have some impact on what accomplishments you get to do, and networking with people from your college might get you a foot in the door at some companies. So while the studies seem pretty sure about what holds more weight, I’m not convinced either.
@scrippsie Are you talking about employment or receiving an REU offer? Or are suggesting they are equivalent in general outcomes?
Wesleyan offers a physics PhD with course listings every year. One of its subspecialties is astrophysics.
I think the studies are grouping together any sort of relevant work experience, so that would mean both. I’ve yet to see any study that differentiates the two. That would actually be really interesting and helpful information to have. Now that you bring it up, I’m actually rather surprised that no one’s done that study. I tried googling, but didn’t come up with any actually studies, just non-conclusive things like people on CC or similar places discussing it.
But in terms of the original question of picking a college, any college that has connections to get you an REU should also have the connections for internship and vice versa.
@scrippsie I was just curious where you were going with your ideas. I am not one who believes that the name of your school defines you or your possible success. I think what students do with their education and the making the opportunities they have is what forges their path.
Fwiw, my physics geek attends a school no one would promote as being a physics destination school, and yet he has received multiple REU offers for this summer. But, he is a kid who excels and grabs every opportunity available.
One dirty little secret is that some REUs actually recruit from particular colleges a few months before opening it up publicly. And if there’s no REU offered at the place you want attend for graduate school, if your college has the right connections, they’ll find a spot for you. And whether your undergrad is a physics destination actually isn’t as important here. Mine isn’t, but both of these, especially the second, are true of my school (which is why I know about them).
Similar for internships. They’ll post open applications online, but a recruiter for one of the most popular companies literally told everyone at my school to just send her the applications so that they’ll actually be looked at. Yikes.
So it’s helpful to figure out what opportunities students from a college have had. Particularly since if one person has done it, it makes it far easier for more to do it, (assuming that person made a good impression). The main point of this is if you look around at the college and see that there’s not much in terms of physics resources there, OP, just ask! A college with not much on campus, but a high number of people doing REUs and internships over summer could be just as a valid an experience as college with the resources for research there. And chances are if you email them any concerns you may have, the professors might be pretty happy for the chance to brag about what awesome things their students are doing. But if doing research at your own home campus - wherever that may be - is the only option that looks good to you, then that’s something to help you with narrowing down your college search.
Wow, I did not expect to he so many replies! I have not read all comments yet, but I will make sure to look over some more. Here are some of my choices:
- University of Michigan
- University of Illinois
- Pennsylvania State University
- Ohio State University
- UCSB
- UCLA
- USC (I want to go here for undergrad, but any info. on the physics program would help a bunch.)
- UCB
I am from Alabama, so I am not 100% sure on going to California for college, but I would LOVE to. Also, I come from a low-income family. My mom is single, gets <$40,000, and I am bi-racial (mom is white, and dad is black). My GPA was 3.0 UW last year, and I expect a 3.5 this year. I will keep up this upward grade trend, so that these colleges will show that I have matured. I know that my GPA does not make me look smart, but I am. It’s just that I struggle with procrastination. This is not a chance me thread, but any advice would help me a lot.
I am not very interested in LACs, because I really want to go to a school where I can do marching band, people go to football games, etc. I also want to consider Stanford. I know; the school is a HUGE reach for me, but I still would love to go.
I am almost completely sure that I want to do physics. I love learning about the universe, and I love math and science. I love knowing things XD.
Any advice on this comment would help immensely. Sorry for the word vomit lol.
Be careful if the school uses the CSS Profile in addition to FAFSA for financial aid purposes. Such schools typically want the financial information from both parents.
Also, most out-of-state public universities give little or no financial aid (Michigan may be an exception in your list). Their net price calculators will show you the bad news.
If you’re considering a future physics PhD (about the only way to have a career doing physics), this link http://www.reed.edu/ir/phd.html shows a per-capita (e.g., is 5 of 50 better than 10 of 1000 in terms of serious academic culture?) ranking of undergrad origins of actual future PhD recipients. These are all private schools with high list prices (but often give excellent financial aid) where it’s possible to get classes to enable graduation in four years.
Note, however, that private schools with good financial aid tend to require CSS Profile and both parents’ financial information. If your father is not cooperative, or is wealthy but will not pay, those schools may not give sufficient financial aid. A few like Chicago and sometimes Vanderbilt only need the custodial parent information.
If you get your GPA up to 3.5 or higher, then high ACT or SAT scores can bring merit scholarship money (some exists for lower GPAs). See http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com . The 11th grade PSAT can qualify for National Merit scholarships. See http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com .
@Pokemonforever My son that I discussed earlier in this thread is at Bama. Don’t overlook an in-state option. He has had nothing but 100% positive experiences at Bama. He has been actively involved in UG research. He is an incredibly strong student (he graduated from high school having completed 5 of the UG physic course sequence) and he has not felt like Bama is settling or “beneath” him. Bama has some great opportunities. Look into CBH, Emerging Scholars, University Scholars, etc.