'Best Practices': Current Practices

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>mbagwell, </p>

<p>Thank you for returning and offering a response. I can only speak for myself but I have no doubt that the curriculum, program, and faculty at UArizona are good. That was never really a question in my mind. I have no doubt that the graduates fare well upon graduation. I think the issue that some are discussing is trying to make sure they fully understand the policies and process at each school in order to make an informed decision as to what philosophy or policy they feel comfortable with. For example, CCM is a renowned program for MT. Few would question that. One reason my own child didn't apply was their cut policy and the atmosphere that can create. DePaul is an excellent acting program but some are not comfortable with their policy to cut half their freshmen class (myself included). So, it is important for those who are exploring programs to learn all that they can in order to make a choice that suits what they are looking for. A program can be excellent but not fit other criteria a student may have....be it a cut policy, size, location, and so forth. I don't know if you have changed your practices since spring of 2006 or if for some odd reason that class was like no other for you. Many are not comfortable with the notion of transfer students and BA students taking the place of those already accepted into the BFA (unless those students were flunking out). I understand you believe in your policies and many who apply are comfortable with them and that is all that matters. But what people are seeking is as much information as they can so that their choices are informed. Extoling the program really is fine but to my observation, was never being called into question (ie., graduates getting work, reputation in the field, professional faculty, fine curriculum, etc.). </p>

<p>Out of curiosity, what determines that a school is "among the top MT schools in the country?" Is it the number of students who got agents? I'm not sure I follow this "rating" or what you mean about "now" it is among the top programs or what criteria that is based on. I'm just asking and don't mean this so much about UArizona but to any school making that statement and what it is based on. Thank you.</p>

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<p>At the end of last year (2006-2007):</p>

<p>4 students were cut from the Sophomore Musical Theatre class, and 2 were cut from the Sophomore Acting class
In addition, at least 8 Freshman (Acting and Musical Theatre) combined were not advanced, though I don't remember the exact number.</p>

<p>Perhaps Ms. Bagwell misremembers, but I assure you those that were cut do not.</p>

<p>Arizona is a pretty good school, and a lot can be learned there, but do know that - despite what some people may say - they do have an aggressive cut policy. From experience I can tell you, definitely take that into consideration when choosing your school.</p>

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<p>I should add that in both of the cases above, the number of people cut represented about 1/4 to 1/3 of the original class size.</p>

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<p>Thanks to mbagwell and everyone who responded with additional information. I am certainly aware of the "cut" policy, and while I understand that this may not suit everyone, I believe that as long as students are notified of the risks and benefits going in, all is fair. Thanks again!</p>

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<p>It is clear to see Ms. Bagwell contradicts herself in these posts; this is alarming to see mostly because she is a representative that has been kind enough to speak on behalf of the school.</p>

<p>I can say that because of my particular situation I have a very unique perspective on all this, I was one of the many students "cut" from the class in question in 2006 and I now attend Carnegie Mellon's School of Drama as a freshman acting major. As I have no motive to lie to anyone on this board, I can say with full integrity that there were indeed 10 people cut from my class that year. This is NOT including those who were cut from the class above me, bringing the grand total to somewhere upwards of twenty (I am sorry I do not remember the specifics). You can see from what sweetclyde posted above around 14 students were cut last year (though I can not attest to that myself).</p>

<p>A few days ago Ms. Bagwell sent me a private message with the subject line "Shame on You", somehow insinuating that I was spreading lies in regards to what happened there. I would like to direct that right back at you Ms. Bagwell. Shame on You. For coming to this board and attempting to cover up the actions of your faculty. You changed the course of these people's lives and are now trying to make it seem like it didn't happen? Thankfully, my life was changed for the better, but there are a large number of people who I am sure were not as lucky as I.</p>

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<p>It may be important to note that the current Chair of the UA Musical Theatre Dept is retiring at the end of this year, and they are currently searching for a new chair. Perhaps the new chair will have a different philosophy on cuts and will follow a different course.</p>

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<p>As an educator who has taught on the college level, I can see not advancing students in a program who have poor grades, poor work ethic and are not attending classes. I cannot see cutting students based on "talent", the same students who my program deemed talented enough to be admitted in a very competitive process. I can't see cutting because some "better" kids came along as transfers or from the BA program. In my view, as an educator, if the student is doing the work, putting in the effort, and growing, my obligation is to see them through the degree program. </p>

<p>What confuses me here with this school is that one parent said her daughter had all A's in her theater classes and was cut. I don't understand how a student can be misled to think they are doing well and then be cut entirely. Then, I recall a former student who used to post here who was cut and then landed at Boston Conservatory, clearly a very well regarded program in this field. Now, in post #25, a student who was cut landed in CMU's BFA program, clearly one of the top programs in the nation. It would seem that these students had the "talent" to succeed if programs more renowned than UArizona took them in as transfers which is no easy feat to accomplish. So, I don't understand what goes on at this program. Good grades and talent....still cut. It would make me very nervous to apply to such a program. My kid might consider a program that said it doesn't advance students who don't do the work, etc. because she would not be worried since her work ethic is very strong and she strives for high grades, etc. At this school, I am not sure I really understand the philosophy and criteria for the cuts and that would give me pause before considering entering and fear of being left out in the cold after a year or two with no place to go, but having the work ethic and talent to have been accepted at other schools where this would not happen. It seems that some of these cut students are doing pretty darn well. That doesn't fit the image of "failing" and not making the grade to continue in a program. </p>

<p>I don't have the full picture but the school does need to concern itself with what others are reading because so many students I know are NOT applying to this program over these issues, no matter how good the program is. PR is important and people do come to this site to glean information and a variety of perspectives. I think the students who have shared here, have for the most part, done so in a respectful tone and it is helpful to gather many perspectives and experiences so that one can weigh the big picture.</p>

<p>PS....Does anyone know the CRITERIA used for cutting? Is this outlined? What are the benchmarks?</p>

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<p>Ok.
I am a current theatre arts student at U of A right now, and have a few comments about all this.
First of all, I feel the need to defend the program in the opening paragraph, then do the unfavorable things later. Just to start off on a positive note. There was a comment about a rumor at the unifieds that all of the MT girls from the freshman last year were cut. That is very incorrect. From what I remember, only 3 girls were not advanced, and only 1 boy was cut. The fact that the Juniors this year had a large number of people cut has nothing to do with years before that or after that. Each class is different and treated on an individual basis. I, too, have asked about the "criteria" used for the cuts, and the school of theatre arts office was happy to give me information on it. This has to do with work ethic, improvement, professional potential, etc...so, basically, all the things any school would, or should, look for in a student. If these things are not seen in a year, or even two, what do you do? ALSO, all the students are aware of the cut system in the program. I have friends who are BFAs and they, although worry about the cuts, do know they exist and are prepared.
And now the cons. They cut. Yes. Wow. It's out there now. Some people are cut and are mad about that, but that does not mean that EVERYONE who gets into the school is cut, or that if one class has large cuts EVERY class after that will be slaughtered. I have heard from various people that the faculty has/gives notice, hints, personal meetings, etc. to those who are in danger of not being advanced. That means that these people can try to fix what is not working and maybe secure their position by working harder than they thought they had to originally, right? Just a thought.
So, some parting words.
Rumors are called rumors for a reason. Question. Doubt. Find the truth.
Go to the source. Don't rely on others to get the dirt.
Every program is going to have its faults. Why is this one such a big deal?
Watch project runway. its amazing.</p>

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<p>I'm still waiting for my letter... Does each student who auditioned get a letter, regardless of whether it's a rejection or an acceptance notice? Or are letters only mailed out to those who got into the program?</p>

<p>When I talked to current U of A students at the audition, the range of time in which they received word from the School of Theatre Arts as to their admissions decision seemed to span from one week after the audition to about a month after... Also, one girl said she never got a letter, but was e-mailed her acceptance.</p>

<p>I'm trying to be patient, but it's stressing me out! :)</p>

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<p>I'm a current Musical Theatre BFA freshman at the University of Arizona and one thing that is not being addressed is the other indication of how we as performers are doing other than grades.</p>

<p>At the end of the semester each student in our class had to meet with the entire Acting and Musical Theatre faculty member, who went down the line to tell us our strengths and weaknesses, and what they thought we needed to work on to ensure advancement in the program.</p>

<p>I can't speak about the students cut in the past couple of years, but from what I've been told from the upperclassmen (I know, who wants to hear more rumors but it's all I can give you) that work ethic was a major factor in why they weren't advanced.</p>

<p>I can definitely see why I should check this site, with all the misinformation going on - and Professor Bagwell is just answering questions, there's no need for people to try and trap her in a war of words.</p>

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<p>Ohmygosh I got in!</p>

<p>Really excited!!! :)</p>

<p>And thanks again to everyone for answering my questions!</p>

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<p>Congratulations to you, Loverleecait!</p>

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<p>Thanks! :)</p>

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<p>Keep us posted on your progress - you know, most who read these boards who aren't researching schools really are interested in the students' success and experiences. So, when you get a moment to breathe in the fall, drop a note as to your experience in Tucson.</p>

<p>Have a blast,</p>

<p>eve</p>

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<p>We started our theatre trip in this discussion area, so it is appropriate that we end here with satisfying closure.</p>

<p>Holly06's D has had an AMAZING audition season. </p>

<p>Final decision is UArts! (with a very generous Presidential scholarship based on talent and academic performance) Way to go, Holly06's D!!!</p>

<p>Other acceptances, all for BFA acting:
Point Park with talent scholarship
Hartt
College of Santa Fe
Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts
University of Utah</p>

<p>Always believe in yourself.</p>

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<p>I suppose I'm probably a little late to jump on the bandwagon for this thread- but as a member of what to many was the massacre class at the University of Arizona, I felt I could perhaps add a bit of insight. </p>

<p>The University of Arizona program is one of the strongest musical theatre programs in the country providing the most diverse range of classes to its musical theatre majors. They strive to create talent individuals with strengths unique to their type and to the roles that they will be asked to play. They do not produce cookie cutter performers like some other schools and no one graduate is like any other from the U of A. </p>

<p>Acting is extremely important at the U of A for musical theatre majors- and as it should be. What many forget is that acting is the very basis for ALL of the musical theatre skills and all musical theatre majors take exactly the same acting classes as the acting majors with the acting majors. No where else are musical theatre majors expected to excel in Chekhov, Shakespeare, Commedia, Moliere, Restoration, Screen Acting, and contemporary styles. Some may argue that these skills are not necessary for a musical theatre performer to have- but in a profession where opportunities are often limited- why limit yourself to which opportunities you are trained for.</p>

<p>Yes- cuts are difficult and no one likes them. However, cuts take place in the real world ALL THE TIME. As I'm sure all of you are aware, the acting profession is very competitive, so why not be challenged by the possibility of a cut in an educational setting. If you are cut from the program, you can still graduate with a B.A. in theatre or you can audition for other programs while still pursuing your B.F.A. as we are often encouraged to do in the fearful cut years. The U of A provides many opportunities and trains many fine performers - and I believe that the threat of a cut should be outweighed by what you'll gain by being part of the program for four years or even for only two. </p>

<p>Don't cross the U of A off your list because there's fear of being cut- most often, it is the fear of this cut that ends up getting people cut as they become too preoccupied with the fear to really take risks and fly.</p>

<p>Should you have any additional questions- feel free to ask, and I'd be more than happy to try to field them for you.</p>

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<p>AZMT...that was a great post. Thank you! It seems like this discussion has been going on for the longest time.</p>

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<p>Hi everyone. I have read this site for several years and never felt compelled to write on it until now. I am a 2008 graduate from the University of Arizona's Musical Theatre program. I think it is very commendable that you parents are concerned for your future or current students and their pride and education. That being said, they are SMARTER THAN YOU THINK, they are going to find out what school is the best school for them. </p>

<p>The "cut" process is daunting and scary, yes, that goes without saying, but it seems as though very few people have looked at the flipside of the coin. Imagine the program didn't cut. Do you want your hard earned money, and your child's valuable time to be spent trying to teach a student concepts that they simply cannot grasp. Do you want your child's time being able to work in front of the teacher spent on a student who is not excelling at the same rate as everyone else in the class? So, then you ask, why did they accept that student into the program? The answer is because they saw potential! Potential, however, unfortunately does not always come to fruition as ability. Not to say your child isn't talented, but the stanislovski based training may not be what feeds their particular talent. </p>

<p>Next, what if it is your child that gets cut? Would you rather them be kept in a program where they are not going to be utilized in mainstage productions and more importantly, remembering this is an education setting, do you want them to continue to fall further and further behind essentially wasting their time, their classmates time, and your hard earned money?</p>

<p>I am one of the infamous students who came back in the 2006 school year which is part of why so many students happened to be cut that year. But, more than more students in class than expected, there was a lot of potential that year that did not blossom, in this program. They are looking out for your student as well as for the good of the company, please remember that fact.</p>

<p>There is more to a program to think about than the cut process as well. Piece of advice....ask yourself what kind of actor you want to be? What do you want your emphasis to be in? If you want to be the best actor possible it is emparitive you go to a school where the musical theatre program is based out of the acting school. If dancing is a huge emphasis for you, the UA is probably not the school for you, because many of the advanced dance classes conflict with the acting classes which make them not available for you to take. If you want to be a pop star, UA may not be the place for you, as with all of our training we are classicly based, including in our vocal training. (That doesnt mean we dont have belters, or work on belts, but the focus of your vocal training comes from a classical place, and then modified for modern musical theatre sound.) If you want to be a triple threat, i absolutely suggest the UA. The acting training is impecable, the teachers are experienced both as professional actors themselves and as educators, and the community support is phenominal.</p>

<p>Lastly, VISIT! Sit in on classes, see a production, ask current or past students, remember sometimes the reward is only as big as the risk! Also remember people tend to speak out a lot more if they are disgruntled or angry then when they are satisfied and content. Probably, because most of us are busy working as actors, go class of 2008! I hope this helps prospective students and parents with some of their questions. Parents, you i whole heartedly believe you are robbing your students if you scratch UA off your list because of the cut process, that is our business, have confidence in your childs ability and work ethic, and the rest will all fall into place.
Jeff</p>