Best Premed Programs for BWRKs?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>Ok, I think that its been established many times by the gurus of this page (sakky, bluedevilmike, bigredmed, etc) that the best place to go to college for premeds is either:</p>

<p>a. Ivies or elites with huge grade inflation
b. A combined BA/MD program</p>

<p>But, what about people like me and the other BWRKs out there that just dont have the 2250 SAT/34 ACT, 4.0 GPA, overachieving stats that it takes to get into many of those elite schools? What about people like me who can only get a 3.7 and 1800-1900 SAT score? Are we doomed to fight through state schools and pray that we can talk to the teacher while simultaneously being treated as a number? I hope not.</p>

<p>So I ask you, what are some good premed schools for the non-overachievers like me who frankly dont have the chops to get into a top school? For example, I can think of two already, Case Western and Rochester, but are there any others? Let us all know so that the "Best Premed Programs" question is done with for good.</p>

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<p>1.) Case is hardly a program for slouches.</p>

<p>2.) While their reputation is very strong, some of their metrics - a 3.75 avg. GPA for premeds amidst a reputation for grade deflation are a little frightening.</p>

<p>3.) What the heck is a BWRK?</p>

<p>4.) Remember, grade inflation is not the chief metric. On balance, I suppose it would help, but grade inflated schools with strong reputations and good advising are what you want to look for, with good advising being by FAR the most important of those three. For example, it's possible - I'm making up an argument here, not actually asserting this; it's hypothetical - that despite being the most grade-inflated Ivy, Brown has a poor reputation amongst medical schools (i.e. past students from Brown haven't worked out well) and so their grade inflation doesn't benefit them. In contrast, known grade deflator Cornell has a strong track record in the past, and so they get a compensator built in.</p>

<p>I can't stress enough that my previous argument was hypothetical. My point is simply that such a scenario is possible and deserves investigation by any student trying to choose a school.</p>

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<p>BWRK really stands for Bright, Well-Rounded Kid.</p>

<p>The alternate meaning is Boring, White, Rich Kid</p>

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<p>who says that people like us are slouches? Just because we dont have the 4.0 and 2250 doesn't mean that we are lazy. I dont know how you came to that conclusion about that. It could mean that (at least in my case) we take more time to get into the flow of advanced classes. For example, my weighted GPA will be much higher because I taking a lot of IB (for those who dont know its the equivalent of AP, except probably harder) classes, which is the most challenging course work, but because it takes me more time to get into that routine, I might get a couple of Bs and then eventually get As. But I dont think that you are trying to diss (sorry for the slang) us BDM because you seem like a nice person that is always willing to help.</p>

<p>But more importantly, this is the reason why I'm posting this thread is so that BWRKs, whom are the majority of the CC population, have some reference to some good schools that they can actually get into because I for one am tired of hearing "go to HYPS-type schools because of grade inflation" or "the best bet is a combined BA/MD" when I know that I'm not competitive enough to get into either of these. So anyway, if anyone has more questions or clarifications, feel free to PM me, but now I would like it if anyone can post some colleges similar to case or rochester in admission difficulty, but good for premed since that was the original point of the thread.</p>

<p>btw I hope you don't feel like I'm attacking you BMD, I'm just trying to get this thread back on track. But as far as the grade inflation thing goes, I'm just going by what I saw on the "best premed programs" thread with 170-some replies. These were the general conclusions made by many on this thread, which like I said, prompted me to make a thread for those who can't get into one of these things such as me.</p>

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<p>You're right; the word "slouches" was not appopriate. This is my fault.</p>

<p>What I do mean, however, is that the statistics you've mentioned strike me as being on the low side for Case Western. I don't know their actual SAT's, so straight 600's might actually be right on the money - I don't really know, but it seems intuitively to me to be low.</p>

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<p>That SAT range seems low for Case to me too, and I know is very low for Rochester.</p>

<p>Anyway, on the whole grade inflation subject, I find it very deceptive the encouragement that is given to people on this board about pursuing such schools. The grade-inflated schools most often referred to are the Ivies and other elite schools, and while it is true that such inflation is rampant in the humanities and social sciences, the science classes that compose your premed requirements are not subject to such inflation and are graded on harsh curves. Since you're competing against a much more talented group of students in this setting, it is much harder to beat the curve, so on balance I think the grade inflation thing evens out.</p>

<p>On another note, and I want to try and say this without sounding snide, but by lambasting those with the high GPA's and SAT scores as 'overacheivers' you fail to realize an important detail: these are the people you'll be competing against to get into med school, efforts that yield a 3.7 and 1800 SAT at the high school level might not be good enough to keep you in the game in college.</p>

<p>Anyway, with those two criticisms I'll try to be constructive now:
Case and Rochester are both excellent, you may also want to look into some of the smaller, mid-level liberal arts colleges (Kenyon, Colgate, Bowdoin, etc.). Also, going to a state school is in no way the kiss of death, you have wide access to research and volunteer opportunities in many cases, though it is true that meeting and getting to know professors is more difficult.</p>

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<ol>
<li>I totally agree with your statement about the ivy grade inflation thingy. It still doesn't make sense for most of us to go to Ivies because </li>
</ol>

<p>a. ur point about how science classes aren't so inflated
b. Its hard to stick out when most of these people are the premeds that you KNOW will get into med school, and not the blondes with a 3.0 who think that partying it up is the best way to get a 45 on the MCAT. </p>

<ol>
<li>Lets not forget that although our test scores and GPA are a bit low, these mid-level national universities are more hollistic than you think. They know that they wont get a lot of the ivy-leaguers because these students will go to an ivy, so they look at ECs a lot, and treat us as more than a number. Plus, I agree with you that our scores are a bit low for UR, and CWRU, but even then, they are within the 25-75% albeit on the low end, and also many people just suck at the SAT. My ACT range on the other hand is within 26-30, which is exactly the range rochester students have. Thus, by now you can agree that these type of schools are much more attainable than Cornell even, which is why I posted this thread. I'm trying to ask what are some good choices that are ATTAINABLE by the majority of the population that doesn't have the stats to get into HYPS or combined BA/MD</li>
</ol>

<p>Ok, so let me re-word this, what are some good premed schools that are ATTAINABLE by BWRKs?</p>

<hr>

<p>happy 200th post to me :D</p>

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<p>Hmmm, I don't know which posts of mine you've been reading, but I'm extremely, extremely, EXTREMELY adamant in my dislike of combined, accelerated BA/MD programs. Further, I've always questioned the exact value of grade inflation and just how much difference it would likely make in the GPA of an individual (always seems to me be a function of having a large enough sample). And further than that I've NEVER encouraged someone to go to a prestigious school simply b/c it's prestigous. I'm the anti-prestige whore of CC if they ever start handing out awards. Mainly b/c I went to a fairly middle of the road, large, public State school in the midwest (it's a top 100 school by USNWR but barely, and wasn't when I started as a frosh).</p>

<p>Because I've been so grossly misrepresented let me be very clear that finding a school with great FIT is what I've always encouraged:</p>

<p>Fit, as I define it consists of, but is not limited to the following:</p>

<p>1) Objective atmosphere - including size, location, setting (urban/rural), cost, Division 1 sports (or not), large Greek system (or not), presence of whatever clubs/organizations/groups that are important to you (ie debate or a religious group), presence of particular major
2) Subjective atmosphere - attitude of student body, liberal/conservative, distance from home (what I think is far may not be far for you), school spirit, attractiveness of the coeds, campus beauty, social scene, etc.
3) Your happiness of being there - I'm a big believer in that "I just know I'm supposed to be here feeling". Being emotionally happy makes it a lot easier to be successful, and makes the failures easier to manage. I saw it all the time while in undergrad, the people who were able to really choose where they wanted to go loved being my school. The people who were forced by circumstances or a lesser of two evils option hated everything about my school.
4) Opportunities - kind falls in one of the first two categories, but specifically having the chance to grow academically, socially, emotionally. College should be about growth, and you shouldn't be the same person when you enter as when you leave. If a school misses out on one of these aspects, it's rough going.</p>

<p>There's probably some other stuff, but those are the big ideas.</p>

<p>Finally, I've always said that you should never, never, never, choose a school based on how likely you think it is to help you get into medical school. Why? Because doing so usually blinds you to the things I've listed above. The fact of the matter is that being pre-med is a game of attrition, and the simple fact is that most of you who post on this board aren't every actually going to even apply to medical school. That's not a knock on anyone personally, just how it is. And because of that, it's important that you find the school that is the best fit, b/c if you go to a school that isn't absolutely where you belong, and you're there because of how you think it will help you get into medical school, then you are going to be miserable when you're no longer looking that direction. And then what? you've wasted your opportunity at having the absolute most amazing 4 years of your life.</p>

<p>So go to the school that you fall in love with. When I was in undergrad I used to give presentations on Greek Life and joining a fraternity or sorority to HS seniors and their parents during Senior Visit days. One question I always got was "how will I know I've found the right house for me?" and I always said "you'll know when you get there, you won't be able to explain it, but you'll know." It sounds corny and people snickered, but it's the truth. Choosing a college is the same way. You won't regret your decision. </p>

<p>You can get into medical school from anywhere. There's no school that will keep you out if you excel in all phases of the game. Admissions committees are judging you and your record, not your school. So focus on the thing you can control (your performance) and let the outside factors go - they'll take care of themselves, and you'll end up where you want to be.</p>

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<p>I think those things actually describe sakky's point of view, which I think we all at one time or another disagreed with.</p>

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<p>hey sorry BigRedMed I hope ur not to P.Oed at me. But its just like norcalguy said, there are points when these questions have been raised many times on this page where just about everyone agreed with whatever sakky, bluedevilmike, and you said. I was just generalizing that you guys are the main leaders of this page, and at least a couple of you have mentioned these things at one point or another. But yeah, now that I think about it, you never really did agree with these things. So sorry once again. I hope that this stupidity on my part won't stop you from helping me out in the future in case more questions come up (which they probably will)</p>

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<p>...except you think sakky, bdm, and brm say the same things, which is not always true.</p>