<p>
[quote]
They're still not exactly in the same class with Dartmouth and Williams, which is more what I was getting at.
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</p>
<p>Seriously, at this level, distinctions between Dartmouth and Williams and Middlebury and Bowdoin are pretty small. With the flood of applicants that these schools are experiencing these days, it isn't uncommon to find plenty of examples of kids who were accepted at the "better" schools and waitlisted or rejected at the "lesser" ones (or, <em>gasp</em> choosing the #5 ranked school over the #2 ranked school <em>end gasp</em>). Once you find yourself comparing schools in the US News top 10 (or even top 20), it comes down to personal fit more than anything else.</p>
<p>Good post, Acadia. Besides, Williams didn't have a rate below 20% until fairly recently either. None of the excellent colleges have had rates as low as those of this and last year. What is it that makes Bowdoin or Middlebury less "classy"? What do they have that Midd and Bowdoin don't? Don't confuse popular name recognition or common perception with actual academic excellence.And yeah, once you're into a number of fine institutions, the "fit" for you is everything.</p>
<p>well, i've heard that williams is relatively conservative, at least more than some other new england rural colleges. personally, i really like middlebury, but thats more liberal i think. im really liberal lol. but nvm, i think that williams could be a good choice for you. they'll definitely have cold weather, and i think they have a strong history department.</p>
<p>Williams is not conservative. All kids in S's entry were Obama supporters except him; he was the conservative -- haha -- he was for Hillary. (He's not really conservative, but we have met Hillary on numerous occasions and she own our hearts.)</p>
<p>But Williams is left leaning, just quietly so.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Seriously, at this level, distinctions between Dartmouth and Williams and Middlebury and Bowdoin are pretty small.
[/quote]
This is particularly true if you happen to be female. I assume the Original Poster is female, because the post indicated interest in Mt. Holyoke, a women's college.</p>
<p>Based on the 2007-2008 Common Data Sets, here are the acceptance rates for female applicants only:</p>
<p>15.4 Dartmouth
16.3 Bowdoin
17.6 Williams
17.8 Middlebury </p>
<p>Obviously these differences are not very big. The acceptance rates for male applicants, which show much more variation, are the factor that really affects the overall selectivity of these schools.</p>
<p>Wow, thanks for all the suggestions so far. In response to some of your replies, yes I am female. </p>
<p>Also, I should have been more specific about location.... I don't mind going to a college in some of those states near the New England area. New York seems pretty New England-y to me (I'm in Texas, so anything up north looks like the arctic from down here). I mostly chose the region for the climate and history, so anything from Maine to Maryland is okay in my book.</p>
<p>I know most colleges, especially on the East Coast, lean towards the left politically, but like I said before, as long as the administration is open minded about intellectual diversity I'll be happy. That's why I ruled out Yale, which I have heard is very close-minded, although I like it as a school in other respects.</p>
<p>In regards to my grades, I'm not entirely sure how I stack up academically. Math is easily my worst subject and I got a 570 on the math portion of the SAT Reasoning Test, but I got a 760 and 780 on the reading and writing portions. On the Literature Subject Test I got a 750; still waiting on the results of two other tests. My high school grades were mostly As and a smattering of Bs. (Not sure what my GPA is, as I am homeschooled and never calculated it.) Even if my chances aren't very good for an exclusive school like Williams, I'd still like to apply anyway. Thoughts?</p>
<p>You did really well on the writing and reading portions of the SAT, and if you could bring up the math portion, that would open up many more opportunities. Rather than take a SAT review course which covers everything--and clearly you don't need to work on the verbal and writing portions, my suggestion would be to call the guidance office of your local high school and ask for the name of a math tutor who specializes in helping students study for the SAT. A good tutor should be able to look at your tests and quickly diagnose what areas you need further help. Sometimes a tutor can seem expensive, but they can be of tremendous help in just a few hours, whereas an expensive SAT course will not be as math-oriented as you need.</p>
<p>I do think that Williams looks more specifically at STATS per se than some other similar schools that might focus more on the "whole Package". That said, I still think you have a shot at Williams, esp if you focus on your interests in writing or other verbally loaded areas of study.A place like MIDD, for example, would be less bothered by your math SAT if other things about you shine through. SO you may want to get tutored in math if you have your heart set on Williams. In any case, I think you have lots of good choices, esp if you stress areas of passion and make yourself known to the adcoms as a unique individual. Don't just be another smart kid. THere are too many of us out there. Good Luck.</p>
<p>That Math score may furrow brows at the most competitive schools. I heartily concur that some targeted tutoring from someone who specializes in the quirks of the Math Sat I would be great for you. My daughter increased her Math score over 100 points with just 6 hours of one-on-one tutoring. She did a diagnostic test which revealed her weaknesses, and the tutor constructed the lessons accordingly. Not cheap, though.</p>
<p>Also, you say you aren't a "city person". I think for most people that translates to not wanting to be in the middle of a major metropolitan area. It's another big leap to get all the way to "rural". Are smaller cities and suburban areas unacceptable to you? Do you want to be in a rural area that is still close enough to a city to allow for easy weekend visits for entertainment, or are you committed to the true boonies? </p>
<p>Finally, have you actually experienced a New England winter in an isolated area? If not, reconsider.</p>
<p>I also wanted more rural when I applied to colleges, mostly because I wanted a more "traditional" experience and I like the outdoors. Here are some where I applied: Dartmouth, Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Williams, Colgate (may be more conservative), Vassar (in the town of Poughkeepsie, but outside it it's pretty upstate New York-y), Ithaca/Cornell (in the town of Ithaca, and the surrounding area is populated since it's on the Finger Lakes, but I tell you, the rural areas seconds outside of it are breathtakingly gorgeous- one of, if not the, prettiest places I've been to in the US), etc.</p>
<p>I technically didn't apply to these, but I almost did and they fit the bill:
Amherst (also good since I believe they have an open curriculum, so no need for math courses ;) )
Skidmore
Hamilton (which may have more of that conservative feel you want, not sure though)
Bard (<em>very</em> isolated- too much for me!)
some of the SUNY schools (ie, Oswego)
I'll add more if i think of more.</p>
<p>anyways, hope i could help a bit (always willing to help a verbal>math kid ;) ). good luck :)</p>
<p>I've been considering what some posters have said about my math score. Frankly, I can't afford a math tutor no matter what they charge, and I also probably can't afford the registration fee again (I can't get fee waivers because I am a homeschool student and I have technically graduated high school). I'm also worried that my scores might go down in the other areas if I re-take the SAT and I'll have to submit the entire score to prospective schools. How much is a 570 going to hurt me?</p>
<p>MommaJ, I really am pretty sure I would like the extreme ruralness of some of the places I'm looking at. I find suburban areas unpleasant and urban areas intolerable. I've lived for the past six years in a very remote area (30 miles to the nearest town) and I've gotten used to it. The lack of entertainment and the other trappings of city life are no problem for me, since I don't really enjoy what most people consider entertaining. I'm looking forward to sub-zero temperatures and snowed in buildings with immense glee--I lived in New York state when I was younger and got a taste for northern winters, however blistery they may be.</p>
<p>In the meantime I've been researching everyone's suggestions. I think Bard and Wellesley look promising and I'm looking into these more fully. I've heard that the history department at Bard is good; anyone know firsthand?</p>
<p>As far as the math score goes, I think it would be worth it, even if you can't afford a tutor, to get an SAT prep book and take it one more time. Schools like Williams, Wellesley, and Bard will all want at least a 600 or 650 minimum and a 700 if at all possible. It will be worth the money if you can get into a better school--they will generally offer better financial aid, anyway.</p>
<p>Wellesley isn't exactly rural--more suburban than anything. Bard is about as rural as it gets.</p>
<p>Wellesley is definitely suburban - easy access to Boston. Your SAT scores are not competitive for schools like Williams, Vassar, Dartmouth. You may need to look for the lower tier of schools.</p>
<p>You might want to look at Bucknell - rural, but in Pennsylvania.</p>
<p>You may also want to read Colleges that Change Lives - one of the things my d disliked about the schools listed there is that many are quite rural. You may find something you like there.</p>
<p>I encourage you to look at Smith College. It’s beautiful, rural, and in New England. </p>
<p>Smith is an elite, highly-ranked liberal arts college, and a member of the "Seven Sisters," the colleges that were the women's counterpart to the Ivy Leagues before they admitted women. Smith is part of the 5-college consortium (with Amherst, Hampshire, Mt. Holyoke and Univ Mass). You can take classes at any of the 5. </p>
<p>The odds are very very remote for Williams Amherst Wellesley with a 570 in math. Some of the hardest to get into in the country. 1400 ish is sort of a basic need math and reading. Few schools look at the writing portion in a meaningful way yet but you should be proud of your score. Good luck there are many great schools out there where you will do very well.</p>
<p>As a homeschooler your SATs are going to take on great weight in the admissions process, possibly even for some "SAT optional" schools which may feel they have no real way to evaluate you apart from standardized tests. If there is a way to get that math score up it would be a huge boost. If not, all is not lost. </p>
<p>And here are some where your 1330 would put you at or above the middle range:
Hampshire (MA)
Gettysburg (PA)
Skidmore (NY)
Dickinson (PA)
Franklin & Marshall (PA)
Bucknell (PA)
Mount Holyoke (MA)
Smith (MA)</p>
<p>And some where your SATs would put you in the third quartile (above the bottom quarter, but not the top half):
Bard (NY)
Bates (ME)
Colby (ME)
Middlebury (VT)
Colgate (NY)</p>
<p>These are all good schools, some excellent. More are in NY or PA than in New England per se. Anywhere your SATs would put you in the lower half of the class should be considered a "reach." Schools like Williams and Bowdoin are probably a step higher, "super reaches," but it may be worth a shot at them anyway; just don't get your hopes up. But your SAT reading and writing scores are first-rate, and if the rest of your SAT subject test scores come in anywhere nearf your first one, you may be a strong candidate at any of these schools, notwithstanding your SAT math score. Good luck!</p>