Would appreciate any advice on good schools to look into for Physics (with strong Astro) programs BEYOND the elite top schools which keep popping up on the same lists over and over again (Princeton, MIT, Cal Tech, etc.). Which other schools have strong programs worth looking into (student will most likely be interested in going into industry vs. pursuing Phd, but that could change)? We are open to larger research institutions, even smaller LAC’s, all geographic areas are open at this point. Thanks!
Look to see if Case Western Reserve, Minnesota-Twin Cities, Illinois-Urbana/Champaign, UC-Santa Barbara, SUNY-Stonybrook.
Thank you. Yes, here are my working lists from US News (just to get started)…appreciate any input, or schools that may be missing from this list but w/strong programs…
Space Science Rankings:
CalTEch
Harvard
UC Berkeley
UC Santa Cruz
Princeton
University of AZ
Stanford
Yale
U Chicago
UCSB
Ohio State - Columbus
Johns Hopkins
UT Austin
Penn State
MIT
Univ Maryland College Park
Columbia
Michigan
UCLA
University of Washington
University of Illinois
UC Boulder
UC Davis
University of Wisconsin Madison
.
.
Overall Physics Rankings:
MIT
UC Berkeley
Harvard
Stanford
CIT
U Chicago
Princeton
UCSB
Columbia
Yale
Univ Maryland
Cornell
Ohio State Columbus
Wisconsin Madison
Rice
Boston University
University of IL
UCLA
University of CO - Boulder
University of Texas Austin
University of Michigan Ann Arbor
Look at Oberlin if you are interested in LACs. A couple of current Cal Tech professors did their undergraduate at Oberlin.
Cost constraints? State of residency? Student’s academic credentials?
Help others help you:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1621234-before-you-ask-which-colleges-to-apply-to-please-consider-p1.html
Lawrence and Reed produce a lot of Physics PhD students, although I don’t know if Astro is a strength. Carleton is another place to look.
The 5 College Consortium has an excellent cooperative astronomy program. The member schools are not all at the same level of selectivity.
Don’t knock your own state flagship until you investigate it. You may not have heard of it on the rankings, but it may very well be solid at the undergraduate level.
Arizona and Arizona State have astronomy and other space-related majors and are not particularly competitive.
UC Santa Cruz is listed on this list. And it’s not impossible to get in to. My daughter (a sophomore) is thinking about Astronomy. We’re in state, so I told her to look seriously at UC Santa Cruz…
Sorry - I’m a new poster here (I am a parent - son is a Jr.) so I didn’t realize need for more info. No cost constraints. No geographic constraints at this point- we are east coast. Son tests very well (Math II SAT 790, 1500 PSAT w/perfect Math Score- hasn’t taken the ACT/SAT yet). Does well at school (mostly A- range, some A’s and A+'s in science subjects…some B+'s in things like Spanish) and it taking a rigorous schedule (working year ahead in math, doubled up in science, 5 honors classes…) but got off to little bit of a slower start Freshman year, is working hard this year to “finish” strong…but isn’t that perfect A+ student that seems to be the minimum at the elite schools. Activities are strong (captain XC, captain debate, captain and helped found Sci Olym team, school newspaper). Has done 2 yrs summer enrichment at residential program. He is laser focused on Astro - has been for a long time, but the elites just seem so ridiculously unreachable to anyone who is not “perfect”. So we’re trying to broaden the scope and be reasonable, while also finding a rigorous program. Thanks for all input.
Williams College- their viewbook states that, across the past 20 years, Williams alumni have won the most Apker Awards from the American Physical Society of any college. They say that this is the highest honor for undergraduate physics research in the United States.
Williams is an “elite” school, but if you are comparing it to MIT and CalTech, perhaps the competition for potential physics majors is a little less intense…
U Hawaii is noticeably missing, far and away one of the best astronomy programs. The university’s other outstanding programs are oceanography and Asian studies.
With about 13,000 undergrads and 4700 undergrads (slightly smaller than Cornell), U Hawaii is fairly small for a public flagship university.
RE: Hawaii… just on the USNWR rankings (for astro), they have Hawaii at #127 in their Space Science category. I just pulled the top 25 or so to dig in a little and I know of course that’s only one measure/ranking from one source…Hawaii may be a stretch for us geographically 
Re: williams - interesting - yes I had seen that study too. Will explore further.
The National Research Council rankings (a product of the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine) are a standard ranking of graduate programs. For astrophysics and astronomy, the NRC ranking went as follows:
1 Cal Tech 4.91
2 Princeton 4.79
3 Cal Berkeley 4.65
4 Harvard 4.49
5 Chicago 4.36
6 Cal Santa Cruz 4.31
7 Arizona 4.10
8 MIT 4.00
9 Cornell 3.98
10 Texas 3.65
11 Hawaii Manoa 3.60
12 Colorado 3.54
13 Illinois 3.53
14 Wisconsin 3.46
15 Yale 3.31
16 UCLA 3.27
17 Virginia 3.23
18 Columbia 3.20
19 Maryland 3.07
20 Massachusetts 3.04
21 Penn State 3.00
22 Stanford 2.96
23 Ohio State 2.91
24 Minnesota 2.89
25 Michigan 2.65
26 SUNY Stony Brook 2.58
27 Boston University 2.40
28 Indiana 2.16
29 LSU 2.06
30 Iowa State 2.03
31 Florida 1.98
32 New Mexico State 1.85
33 Georgia State 1.81
https://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/area27.html
The most recent rankings are here, which provide bands of scores for each university (and thus several different possible rankings) rather than a specific score.
https://www.chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124705
I would not rely too heavily on rankings, and you don’t have to major in astronomy at the undergraduate level to get into a great graduate program - so definitely look beyond the lists to liberal arts colleges and universities that may not offer astronomy majors.
That said, the list might provide some other options to consider.
I see someone mentioned Lawrence. They do a physics weekend for prospective students in February. I think the focus this year is Astro but not sure if I am remembering it correctly. Worth a look and great merit aid for students like your son.
A college may not have an astronomy major, but it may have a good physics major with astronomy electives in the physics department. Check course offerings and frequency.
Out of that NRC list, Arizona and Hawaii are not very selective for undergraduate, but that is because those states have few state universities, on the model that the flagship can serve the entire range of the state’s college students. However, it is likely that physics majors are among the stronger students at such a school.
re: ucbalumnus: Yes, we are absolutely trying to research strong physics programs overall which have Asto options so as electives this isn’t too limiting.
For LACs, I would look at the NSF’s list of schools that produce the most science & engineering PhDs, adjusted for institutional size. It’s Table 4 at the following link:
https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf13323/
The LACs are the ones classified as “baccalaureate” institutions. You will notice that LACs actually outnumber universities on the list, even though most LACs are at a significant disadvantage for purposes of a “science & engineering” list, because they don’t have engineering programs. A few comments about this list:
- You may find that the limiting factor at many LACs is the astro program. Some LACs don't offer astronomy at all, and even LACs known for strong physics, like Williams or Reed, may have only one or two astronomy profs.
- Reed College stands out on the list. They do indeed have a great physics program, including the famous undergraduate-run nuclear reactor, yet they have a unusually high acceptance rate compared to many other elite schools. This is probably in part because they stopped cooperating with the USNews college rankings in the 1990s, at which point their ranking suddenly tanked. However, Reed is also known for a liberal alternative hippie vibe that is not for everyone.
- You will see that New Mexico Tech ranks highly on this list. This school is not classified as a LAC, but it is basically LAC-sized (1,600 undergrads) and produces lots of physics PhDs. NMTech is a state school, but is known for offering automatic scholarships to out-of-staters with high stats. So your cost of attendance would likely be low, even as an out-of-stater. Enrollment is heavily slanted towards men, as at most schools with the letters T-E-C-H in the name, but unlike most LACs.
- There are a number of highly selective LACs on the NSF list (like Williams, Swarthmore, or Carleton), but it also includes a number of very good LACs that are significantly easier to get into (like Lawrence, Kalamazoo, Whitman, or Earlham).
Not that the list only addresses “science & engineering”, not physics or astronomy specifically. You would still need to do some research into the physics and astronomy offerings of any listed LACs. But it’s probably a good place to start.
@warblersrule Just curious: do U Hawaii students have extra access to Keck I & Keck II and CFHT?