Best strings/music theory/composition schools?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>I know..there are lists. But I also realized long ago that some of the schools on the list are more for jazz or modern music, etc. I was hoping to also hear about schools that might be great that are not on "the list." (as in, the top 30 list online).</p>

<p>Also, my daughter is a little prone to depression and anxiety, so I would rather if whereever she went, there is a potential for her to come home on a weekend or something if she is having troubles (in otherwords, direct flights that are less than 3 hrs).</p>

<p>In addition, she is not 100% certain of the music major. I suggested a BA in music instead of a BFA, but she wants to do a BFA, I think. She has a couple other majors she has been considering. She is a violist and would likely apply to major in performance. But she is actually even more interested in composition. It is just we have been told by many people, including the actual colleges, that it is better to apply to the performance program than the composition program.</p>

<p>On our list, we have Rice, UT Austin, Carnegie Mellon, Oberlin. She had been interested in Wash U too for some time. And recently, she started to look at U Illinois UrbanaC campus. ANd UC Boulder. Her teacher suggested Northwestern, but we never got a good feeling from there. We loved Rice, but there is no room for electives really there, so, not sure if she could complete some of the extra classes she wants, outside of the school of music.</p>

<p>Thanks!!!</p>

<p>Oh..this is junior year, can you all share with me what kind of looking and all that you did junior year? Thanks!</p>

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<p>(in otherwords, direct flights that are less than 3 hrs).</p>

<p>It would help to know what part of the country you are in! ;)</p>

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<p>I am really curious the reasons why you were told it was better to apply for performance rather than composition? Is it because she is a violist and there are likely less of them? My son is double major in performance and composition and is a string player. While you cannot do that at every school there are a number of schools you can do both but you have to get in for both. What part of the country are you in? If you are in the mid west I think Lawrence is worth a look. Interesting school and I think good for someone who loves music but has other interests. My s very seriously considered this school. If we had it to do all over again I would try and send my kid to a summer program where faculty from 1st choice school was teaching.</p>

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<p>Assuming you’re primarily interested in schools in the midwest…we know good violists at DePaul in Chicago and UKansas (and of course CIM). UMichigan, UNorth Texas and Arizona State might be some other geographically compatible choices to add to your list.</p>

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<p>Rice definitely allows for electives outside the major. It is definitely hard to do so in the first two years because you would probably be taking the max credit load, but it is certainly possible. It is much easier to take electives as an upperclassmen.</p>

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<p>A performance degree is usually a BM. A BA is usually not a performance degree, though some performance may be included, and involves theory, music history, composition, technology, and ethnomusicology.</p>

<p>Can you define what you mean by “modern music”? That term can cover anything from atonal “new music” (concert music, also called “contemporary classical” by some)to pop or rock. Terminology is a tough issue these days, and people could help you more if you could explain a little more about what you think your daughter might be looking for.</p>

<p>Also, what do you mean by “the list”? Do you actually have a list?</p>

<p>Here is a good essay to read on choices in terms of degrees:</p>

<p>[Peabody</a> Institute - Conservatory Admissions: The Double Degree Dilemma](<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/doubledegree]Peabody”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/doubledegree)</p>

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<p>[Top</a> Music Schools Ranking in 2010 - US College Rankings](<a href=“http://www.uscollegeranking.org/music/top-music-schools-ranking-in-2010.html#axzz26OQ7c8Oi]Top”>http://www.uscollegeranking.org/music/top-music-schools-ranking-in-2010.html#axzz26OQ7c8Oi)</p>

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<p>I can’t find who is sponsoring that site, but here’s what they say about their ranking process:</p>

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</p>

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<p>Interesting criteria for music schools. Some conservatory BM programs don’t need SAT’s and don’t care that much about grades etc. Noticed that Lawrence and Ithaca aren’t on there, and could probably think of many others. This seems to be a pretty good list all in all, so again, I am wondering why you say most of them have “jazz or modern music,” and what you mean by that. What is your daughter hoping for?</p>

<p>BM performance degrees are pretty intense anywhere, with some liberal arts classes but 2/3-3/4 of course work is in music. A BA program is more like 1/3-1/3 music, and most of that is academic study, not performance.</p>

<p>I will tell you that many of us had kids who could not decide between conservatory BM and college BA until the very last minute, meaning late April of senior year in our house! Your daughter can apply to both and see how she feels once accepted (and finances can be a factor with conservatories). I hope that Peabody essay on degree types is helpful :)</p>

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<p>This list<***********<strong><em>ten foot pole</em></strong>**********>me</p>

<p>With the colors of the site and the name “US Rankings” , they are trying to trade in on the USNWR rankings. Even if there was someone somewhere crunching numbers and running through “data”…what would it all mean? It all looks pretty suspect and sad. I mean REALLY how do they obtain the “median salaries of graduates”? Or obtain the “undergraduate reputation”?</p>

<p>But then again…I’ve ranted on this site before on these suspect lists. Have at it!</p>

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<p>Rankings for music schools are about as meaningful as ‘chance me’ predictions. The choice of school is too personal to be aided data compliations. I think that far too many students and parents focus on rankings for regular college application decisions. I hope such rankings creep does not seep into the music school decision. Many folks managed to make the right decision about schools back in the day before the data onslaught!</p>

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<p>Even for a discipline like Engineering - very different from music - these rankings are questionable. Run the other way from these rankings. They are irrelevant.</p>

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<p>Well said VMT!</p>

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<p>It’s good that people are saying this more directly than I did. The source of the list (US News and WR rankings [Ten</a> Reasons to Ignore the U.S. News Rankings](<a href=“http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2012/09/post_151.html]Ten”>http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2012/09/post_151.html)) and the concept of the list (that, for instance, SAT’s etc. are relevant for conservatories) are absurd, but most of the major conservatories are, in fact, on this list. So for a parent new to the music scene, it is a flawed place to start but nevertheless a place to start.</p>

<p>Then again, many schools are not included.</p>

<p>My main concern was that the parent is rejecting options because the schools on the list are mostly “jazz and modern” music. I am just not sure what the parent means. Schools like NEC, MSM, Juilliard, Curtis, Mannes, CIM, CCM, Oberlin and Rice have great strings/theory/composition programs,with some differences of course (Curtis is certainly more conservative than, say, Oberlin). </p>

<p>Also, the BA versus BFA issue (without BM mentioned) would seem to indicate that this daughter is in the very earliest stages of thinking about studying music, whether performance or general/academic.</p>

<p>To the parent, I often recommend a book entitled “Creative Colleges,” that has a list of colleges and conservatories that have good music programs. It is available online. There is also a Peterson’s Guide to Performing Arts Schools, as I remember. You will end up with many of the schools on the USN&WR list, but for different reasons.</p>

<p>Look at websites, read about courses and faculty, and get to know about all the choices available. It’s great that you are starting now! And, again, if she can, your daughter might want to keep all options open until she actually chooses a school.</p>

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<p>This ranking is more than irrelevant…it is downright fraudulent. The “data” that they claim that they are using DOES NOT EXIST. It angers and frustrates me that someone is creating arbitrary lists just to lure talented students and their parents into clicking on their page. Isn’t it hard enough to manage the way through the musics admissions maze?</p>

<p>UGH</p>

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<p>I would also add to compmom’s and musica’s wise words that while it is not required, it’s not a bad to have a goal for the BM or BA degree. In other words in addition to determing what you want to study, try and focus on what you plan to do with it after the four years. One of the compelling reasons for my son’s interest in studying composition at Oberlin is that he wants to obtain his Ph.D/DMA in Composition. Oberlin has a fantastic history of placing its composition graduates in the top programs. Attending a summer composition program at Oberlin taught by the Oberlin faculty help assure him that Oberlin was the right place for him. These are factors that do not show up in any generic rankings. One question that must be asked is whether the school fits the particular student’s purpose for the study of music.</p>

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<p>And by the way lmkh70, I will bet that EVERYONE here has at some point desperately searched for a viable ranking list. It would be so helpful if such a thing existed! But alas…it does not exist so we are left doing a massive amount of “footwork”. Onward and upward!!</p>

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<p>I still that one of the best research resources is right here on the acceptances threads. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1260441-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2012-a-24.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1260441-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2012-a-24.html&lt;/a&gt;
Everything from major conservatories to schools I never heard of before are there. Also the school visits thread tacked to the top of the first page is good. Agree with musicamusica, when you really want a list what you get is a lot of research. </p>

<p>I won’t even get into the (in)validity of the list above. Not worth the keystrokes…</p>

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<p>A review of the posts relating to what school to attend once the acceptances starting coming in is also useful. Many students and parents posted their thoughts concerning 2 or more schools that they then had to decide between. Rarely if ever was the “ranking” of the school a consideration. It was much more about fit, teacher, size of school etc.</p>

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<p>Those rankings as an idea of how much better a school is then others is almost totally complete BS. The methods they use to rank the schools is a joke (and quite honestly, in terms of academic schools those lists don’t mean much IMO). </p>

<p>Even leaving that out, what this ignores is that in a sense a program’s ranking is not in the overall school, but by discipline. There are schools highly ranked on that list that may be mediocre in voice but fantastic on piano (for example, in violin there are a couple of schools in the top 10 that aren’t considered that strong on violin, based on faculty, but are good for other things, whereas schools below the top 10 should be there…for violin). Michigan and Northwestern have strong music schools, but are on this list in their positions more because they are academically excellent/competitive institutions (I am not saying they aren’t great music schools, they are, I am saying their ranking position isn’t based on things important to music; on the other hand, they are both strong music schools and since I don’t believe in rankings, that is all that matters). They list Yale (which doesn’t offer an undergraduate performance degree) and University Illinois Champaign which is a fantastic academic school but at least from what I know, is not perceived as a strong music school (could be, and like any music school, it could have a strong string program but in general be less competitive…that much I don’t know), Mannes is ‘ranked’ above Rice when Rice is generally considered to be one of the elite schools (and Rice is below schools like University of Florida, UNT, U texas Austin, all good schools, but not in the level of competitiveness to get in)… My intent is not to sell one school above another, only to point out their criteria is whacked.</p>

<p>There are a ton of factors to keep in mind with music schools and one post couldn’t even scratch a scratch on what is involved. Even if those rankings meant anything, in the end they would mean little about getting a job at the end of the day, an orchestra when filling a position or a chamber group looking for a new member doesn’t screen resumes and say “Oh, Jane Doe came out of Juilliard, interview her”, they listen to how people play, evaluate how they will fit in and make decisions based on that, it doesn’t work that way (all schools have advantages, schools in NYC have the advantage of the incredible amount of music here and making contacts/networking, other schools because of the faculty and preparation,…).</p>

<p>In the end, it is about how the student is prepared, not what is on some list. If kids from the ‘top’ conservatories tend to get hired, it is because in perception or reality high level music students believe they are the best so they all apply there, so the talent level they admit tends to be very high (Juilliard, for example, admits roughly 7% of those who apply there, same low levels for many of the other top schools) so on average they enter college as some of the best of the best and have a head start on the average student at a less competitive program. On the other hand, a high level student could go to a ‘less competitive’ program with great teachers, get a full scholarship (since programs with ‘less’ reputations look to attract top talent, induce them not to go to a Juilliard or whatever, not a small inducement when Juilliard full freight is 50k a year), and do really well. </p>

<p>In terms of music theory, almost any music school at any kind of level a student attends is going to have them doing rigorous music theory training along with ear training, so unless planning to study that academically any of them will give good background.</p>

<p>I don’t know a lot about composition, but from what I understand it is a tough admit, it may be easier to get in on viola performance. Among other things, my impression of composition is to get admitted you already have to have done composition and have a portfolio…on the other hand, she could enter as a viola performance major, take classes in theory and composition as electives and eventually if she found she wanted to do that, could do that in grad school. </p>

<p>As far as these schools being ‘modern’ music and so forth, not sure what you mean. While for example Juilliard and NEC have jazz programs, as does MSM (and UNT and others), few of these programs are ‘modern’ music only. USC thornton has classical performance degrees but USC also has a strong contemporary music program, but that is part of it (on the other hand,Berklee school of music is strictly jazz and contemporary music, they are not a classical conservatory).</p>

<p>Could you be referring to the composition aspect and the perception (not totally untrue) that composition programs these days tend to be dominated by so called ‘modern’ classical music i.e serialism/12 tone/atonal/ ‘schonbergian’ or minimalist styles? If so while there is some truth to that it isn’t ‘all around’ truth, there are teachers at all those programs themselves who aren’t writing in that style, who are mixtures of styles and even write the occassional neo romantic or neo classical style piece:).</p>