<p>^just one correction, CalTech is not a LAC.</p>
<p>I think what noct meant was many LACs don't have as much research going on as the research Us in general but the state Us, on the other hand, got too many students (grad/undergrad) competing for the opportunities. He/she, based on his/her search/experience, found the mid-size Us may have the best balance of both worlds in general.</p>
<p>D is interested in research, in fact she is turning paperwork now to do research this summer. This would be prior to her senior year. She must also present her research. It is a joint program between U's and companies like Solutia and Pfizer.</p>
<p>D has discussed the possibility of going for her PhD. She does not have a particular field in mind but says she want to discover the new drugs of the future. I could see her doing Biochemistry too. D has Calculus AB this year with AP Physics, AP Chem, Calculus BC next year.</p>
<p>I noticed you did not say where you were and where you are now? Though you hinted you left Northwestern? Did you skip around three colleges in three years just because of the lack of research?</p>
<p>^i don't think noct hinted he/she left northwestern. actually i just looked up his/her post and it seems like noct is at ut austin at the moment.</p>
<p>i did chemE at northwestern and i am not aware of any chemE interested in undergrad research not getting one. of course, if you only want to work with a specific prof, it can be more difficult. </p>
<p>i can't speak for chemistry department though last year, 2 chem majors won the gate cambridge scholarships. also according to Chicago</a> Area Undergraduate Research Symposium (CAURS), chemistry majors from northwestern have been well-represented. Last year, 8 entries were submitted by NU chemistry majors. 2 profs from the chem department were recognized for "outstanding support of undergraduate research" also.</p>
<p>Future chem dad: with those stats, your D has an excellent chance of receiving merit aid at certain schools, namely smaller private universities with graduate programs. Start with Rochester, then consider Carnegie-Mellon, Brandeis and Johns Hopkins. In your own area, Washington U/St. Louis. In addition to UI-UC, consider Minnesota.</p>
<p>vossron: Sam Lee understood what I was getting at. I acknowledged that LACs do usually have some sort of undergraduate research program. I didn't say it explicitly, but the caliber of the research done at LACs WITHOUT decent graduate programs usually does not compare to that of a school with a good graduate program. Graduate programs are simply better funded than undergraduate only institutions. Better funding generally means better equipment, better professors in terms of research ability--not necessarily teaching ability, better graduate students, and in general better research. I would highly recommend a LAC with a good graduate program (Columbia for example).</p>
<p>future chem dad:</p>
<p>Research program sounds great. I hope she gets it. I wish I had started that early. Unfortunately, the first year or two of college tend to be bad for research opportunities, but with research under her belt already she might be able to find something. As far as (summer) research opportunities once enrolled in college, encourage her to look at REUs (google "NSF REU") and internships/co-ops in industry (BASF, Novartis, Pfizer, etc.).</p>
<p>Based on that description, it sounds like your daughter might share some of my interests. I'm interested in (synthetic) natural product chemistry and (synthetic) medicinal chemistry which both relate heavily to drug discovery. After she takes organic chemistry, she will hopefully have a better grasp on what interests her. I only became interested in this field after reading a book about Richard Evan Schultes--one of the greatest botanists of the 20th century.</p>
<p>If she can get AP credit for some of those courses and move on to higher level courses, that's great. I don't recommend choosing a school on that basis, but it may be something to consider as it will save money/time. Obviously she shouldn't choose a bad school over a good school for this, but if she is deciding between schools that are otherwise equal... </p>
<p>I purposely left out some details like that. If you'd like to know please pm me; I'd be more than happy to tell you. I did really skip around three colleges, but one was a stepping stone to where I am now. I never intended to stay there so it doesn't really count. I don't recommend this path though. I wish I had known what I wanted to study and what kind of school I wanted attend so that I wouldn't have had to skip around. I still post here hoping that I can help someone make a better decision.</p>
<p>Best of luck to your daughter.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I didn't say it explicitly, but the caliber of the research done at LACs WITHOUT decent graduate programs usually does not compare to that of a school with a good graduate program. Graduate programs are simply better funded than undergraduate only institutions. Better funding generally means better equipment, better professors in terms of research ability--not necessarily teaching ability, better graduate students, and in general better research.
[/quote]
I agree with this, but the difference is that few undergrads at a large university are able to participate in this better research; grad students do most of it. At LACs with a thesis requirement, every senior must do research, though it may well be with less funding and equipment. They'll do the "better" research working on an advanced degree at a large, well-equipped research university.
[quote]
I would highly recommend a LAC with a good graduate program (Columbia for example).
[/quote]
I think we are using terms differently; I think of Columbia as a large research university, never as a liberal arts college.</p>
<p>
[quote]
that few undergrads at a large university are able to participate in this better research
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What's your source on this? At Stanford, for example, there's more than enough opportunity for undergrad research (hell, three years ago, Stanford gave $4.2 million just in undergrad research -- probably much higher now). Any undergrad who wants it can get in on it. The same can be said of many other large universities--Harvard, Berkeley, Columbia, etc.</p>
<p>Caltech undergrads have unparalleled access to research - we have our grad students and excellent funding with a very small size coupled with some of the best research in the country. This means that every undergrad I've talked to who tried to get a research project had a ridiculously easy time finding a prof with room in the lab (and half of these are freshmen). The 3:1 student:faculty ratio actually makes a huge difference.</p>
<p>If your daughter is good enough, she might qualify for a merit award (there are several full tuition scholarships awarded with acceptances). Otherwise, Tech's financial aid is also quite good (we're rated 1 or 2 in Kiplinger's best buy colleges).</p>
<p>Has anyone heard anything about Iowa State's Chemistry program and the ability to move into graduate work at other schools?</p>
<p>Iowa State is superb in any subject having to do with agriculture, so I assume that the chemistry department there would be quite good in general, and as a base for graduate school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If I were looking for schools again, I would narrow my focus to schools of ~3000-1000 undergraduates and a few big state schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I meant 3,000-10,000.</p>
<p>i remember reading somewhere that UW-Madison is the 2nd largest research university behind john hopkins. my dad went there for his phd but thinks the chemistry department is good all around.</p>
<p>vossron:</p>
<p>I agree with the others in regards to opportunities to do research at a "research univeristy". At Harvard, only a moron can't find paid research work as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>What are some good 2nd tier Chemistry schools. My D has set her sights high, so we need some 50/50 choices and locks. I'm not sure if there is anything in Missouri.She needs to be able to get into grad school if she chooses.</p>
<p>In Missouri I would definitely look at Truman State. Very good school at an affordable price.</p>
<p>Hope College in Holland MI has a terrific chemistry department. I would recommend that you read about in Loren Pope's Colleges That Change Lives. While not as well known as some of the others listed in this thread, Hope might actually be much more generous with financial aid for a top flight applicant.</p>
<p>future chem dad --</p>
<p>You mentioned Iowa State in an earlier post. I think this might be an excellent choice (or at least a school to explore further) as a "safety" school for your daughter. By "safety" I mean one that is less selective, less costly, but also one she could see herself attending. In looking at the ISU web page, the OOS cost is $17,000 per year, and last year the Trustees approved plans for the construction of a new $75 million chemistry building. ISU is an attractive campus, and with 26,000 students is large enough to have some diversity without being overwhelming. While this isn't a top ranked chemistry program, it is a very respectable one - one that would provide a solid foundation, have plenty of research opportunites, and, because its a large university, have a good variety of other opportunities. As I said, maybe a good safety.</p>
<p>Are there any schools I have not heard about that might be good for Biochemistry. My D is going to work in a lab doing RNA structure research this summer.</p>
<p>future chem dad: In Missouri there is a branch of the U of Mo that used to be called Missouri School of Mines. Always had a very good chemistry department, as did all of the various states "Schools of Mines".</p>
<p>My son, a high school junior, is interested in a college chemistry major but he's also talking about other interests. I think he should be looking for a college that offers a BA in chemistry to give him some flexibility to have a minor or take other courses. I know I can go to individual school websites to find out whether the BA is offered but does anyone know of a quicker way to identify these schools?</p>