Beware Student Quality When Selecting A School

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I am a college senior and I am a regular but silent visitor to these forums. I am finally creating an account and posting today because I just cannot remain silent anymore in the face of some terrible advice some are spreading here. Although I know I am not the first, nor the last, to present the view I hold, if my account of my real-life experience is effective in persuading a single prospective college student not to make the same mistake that I unwillingly did, I consider it a worthy use of my time.</p>

<p>I had a nightmare life through both my childhood and my teens. Some would consider my former circumstances not so bad. However, everyone thrives on different things in life, and what I had in life were not things that drive me mentally and emotionally. To make a long story short, I was in a stage of such extreme depression, that once it was time for me to go to college, I ended up with only slightly above average SAT scores. This was not because of lack of intellectual ability or poor practice (though I did not practice very much due to my circumstances), but just due to the fact I had no mental or emotional strength left to do anything, school included. I simply had not learned anywhere near as much as I could have over the years.</p>

<p>Obviously, I had to go to a no name school that would accept my low SAT scores. However, since I was living on campus, I was no longer among the severe mental and emotional drain that held me back before. I was extremely optimistic and very energetic. I was very excited I was finally in a situation where I could meet interesting people and make real friends. Three and a half years later, I have participated in many extracurricular activities and maintained an extremely high GPA.</p>

<p>Sounds like a happy ending? Wrong. Remember what I was excited about? Meeting interesting people, making real friends, having interesting discussions, partaking in productive activities, building teamwork and leadership skills, and having fun outside school - fun that does not revolve around drinking, smoking, and drugs (which is not even fun at all - that is just making your brain not care that it is discontent). Well, I never met interesting people, have not made a single real friend, and have not had a single memorable, enjoyable experience. Despite not allowing it to affect my grades, I am now utterly depressed and more pessimistic than at any other point in my life, even more than during the nightmare before college. My grand “College Experience,” as I have heard the term so often on these forums and elsewhere, has been so miserable, that if every single day of the last three and a half years had been as enjoyable as the <em>best</em> day of those three and a half years, I would refuse to go through it a second time.</p>

<p>What has gone wrong? From my very first week at school, I aggressively began participating in multiple extracurricular activities, in addition to focusing intensely on my academics. As of this moment, I have been involved in the student government, honors program, a professional society, volunteer/community activities, and some miscellaneous university-administered student programs. Yet, I am still not meeting anyone interesting because the people are the same no matter what activity in which I participate. I am at the wrong school. People here have no dreams, no goals, no intellectual interests, and no concern for the world beyond what they physically see every day. The only things people do for “fun” is drinking, smoking, drugs. Those that do not partake in those activities only like to sit at home and get fat watching sports on TV. I am serious.</p>

<p>Even the top students with the best GPAs and overflowing lists of “activities, titles, and awards” are not anything more than what I just described. The only reason they are motivated to continue to be top students is so that their scholarships remain active. I am not saying people on these forums are significantly greater human beings, but I will say you won’t find anyone at my school that are like a lot of the people that come to these forums to try to define their ambitions and discover the best route in college to accomplish great goals. At least some of the people on these forums are interesting individuals, regardless if they are successful with their ambitions.</p>

<p>Fast forward to this point in time, and things have just been getting worse. My mental and emotional state continues to deteriorate so much that I have begun developing physical problems too as a direct consequence. Although I have a great deal of extracurricular activities in the past, I have no leadership experience (though many of my peers have pointless titles where they did nothing) to speak of to an employer. I am no longer part of any student organizations because the same people that were in the ones I tried are in the other ones, doing nothing there too. Since I am not a drinker, smoker, or drug user, I am kind of a social outcast and have no better social skills now than I did when I first started. So between my new (visible) physical problems and lack of social skills, it is unlikely an employer will get a good impression from interviewing me.</p>

<p>I tried very hard the first two years to keep my hopes up that “this semester’s activities will lead me to the secret mature-student population,” but I have come to accept the truth, that I am simply in a school where all the sub-par students go. Yes, what I described is the case with the vast majority of young people in general, but the difference between an average school like mine and a top school is that an average school is entirely filled with people like those I have described. At a top school, at least a very small proportion of the top students are going to be interesting (if you have the same qualifications of interesting as me: strong personal/career goals, concern/interest in world affairs, intellectual interests, desire to have fun in other ways besides TV/substances/inactive “hanging out”).</p>

<p>The point being? Do not listen to all this non-sense which I fell for when I first started college. If you are an ambitious or intellectual person, do you think you will enjoy spending four years surrounded by nothing but the people like those I described? If not, then do not let some of the people on College Confidential tell you to save some money and go to the cheaper school because "any college is what you make of it." Do not listen when they say to go to a lower ranked school so you can “better stand out.” School prestige/reputation/ranking DOES matter (if there is a big enough difference) a great deal when it comes to the quality of students with which you will be interacting over the next four years. Do not make the same mistake as I did and end up miserable, having gained a long line of memories from the “College Atrocity” instead of the “College Experience.” If you can make it into a top university, take the best option you can afford (even if you cannot afford to go to some Ivy League school, you can at least go to your state’s flagship public). It is going to be hard work no matter what, but at least give yourself a chance to enjoy parts of it.</p>

2

<p>I don’t believe there are significant behavorial or work ethic differences between many of the top 50 colleges (and those are pretty much 90%+ of all the colleges we discuss on CC). The situation you described only happens when you really try to save money. -.-</p>

<p>So unless you have a stunning revelation that the college filled with crackheads was Columbia, I stand unconvinced.</p>

3

<p>I am worried about you. It is troubling that you feel that you have not made any real friends in three years, despite being actively involved on campus.
I wonder if it would help you to go talk to your college’s counseling center. You have most of your senior year left to go, and the real world waiting for you after that. This could be a great time to talk through everything that is holding you back from making friends and finding happiness.</p>

4

<p>I suspect the miserable time you have had in college is much more a product of the depression you were already suffering from when you enrolled rather than the “quality” of your classmates. I hope you are able to get effective medical help for that.</p>

5

<p>Thanks for your post, I think it represents a honest but different view than we see a lot here. I sympathize, and I think it’s helpful to others for you to share your experience. You are at a school where the academically weak students go, and the fact that you are really out of sync with these people is not a poor reflection on you. Actually, you have made the best of a bad situation and your high GPA is currency that you can probably use to make the next step. Maybe you should think about how to do it. Maybe people here have some suggestions. I suggest that you plan on moving to a city where highly educated people tend to live, cities like Boston, New York, Washington, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, or San Francisco. </p>

<p>I too am a little worried by the tone of your post. You need to calm down and hold it together because you probably have good options. At this point in time, looking back is probably more destructive than constructive for you (though helpful to others).</p>

6

<p>I agree with ClassicRockerDad. </p>

<p>I also hope that you have taken steps to seek treatment for depression. Please do so now while you have the health resources that a college affords. No one should have to live in such pain.</p>

7

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<p>Good point to consider. Seek treatment yourself and go to graduate school.</p>

8

<p>I’m truly sorry that your college years have been so downcast, but the issue, as you have seemed to acknowledge, is not just the people around you.</p>

<p>I really agree with the previous posters, in that counseling at some level could really help, considering that these standard people are the kind of people you will probably be around for the rest of your life, and if you don’t come to terms then you will be very unhappy for a long time.</p>

<p>But you should really know that people at “elite” schools are not necessarily better than those at other schools. I go to a top-15 school, and amidst the constant discussion of getting drunk, there are virtually no intellectual conversations. That’s simply the way that college (in 99.9999999% of US schools) is.</p>

<p>I do agree with the premise (to some extent) though. Do not go to a school that does not match you simply to save money. At the very least, find a cheap school where you believe you will be happy.</p>

9

<p>i agree with the other posters as well as OP’s general premise. and i completely agree with the last paragraph of nitwit’s comment. college IS what you make of it, but you have to be happy with where you go. don’t let something like a lack luster financial situation to get in the way of your dreams (unless it’s REALLY a problem). </p>

<p>but yeah, people need to keep in mind that at different colleges (different tiers of colleges) there ARE different people (on average). overall, it may seem similar but trust me, it’s different.</p>

10

<p>There probably is a difference in quality of students and intellectual conversations between a low tier directional state school and a top 50 school. </p>

<p>However, I doubt there is such a big difference between a top 50 and other well-ranked privates and publics. </p>

<p>I know I’ve said this many times…at lower ranked (< 50) schools, you’re not going to find high stats kids equally distributed across the campus (especially at large state schools). Instead, you’re going to find the higher stats students more concentrated amongst the hard science, math, and engineering majors. </p>

<p>I’m not saying that they’re aren’t smart kids in those other majors, of course there are. I’m more speaking to concentration of high stats students. It’s no secret that certain majors have students with an average of higher test scores.</p>

11

<p>I guess I have to clarify a few things:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>As I said in my third paragraph, “I was extremely optimistic and very energetic.” This was the first several months, not just a a couple of weeks. I was not depressed at all during that time - everything was still new. If I was letting my depression control my actions and become self-fulfilling, I wouldn’t have the GPA I do now. You seem to be under the impression that because I was depressed, I was not socially active - this was not the case. I was not depressed at all the first several months. Depression is not the cause, it is a symptom.</p></li>
<li><p>A few of you have mentioned that the higher-ranked schools are bad in the ways I mentioned too. I already knew that in general they were the same, but as I mentioned in the original post, at least they have a small proportion of the top students (as in SOME of the top students, not the majority) that are interesting as I described. These forums are proof since there are constantly people trying to decide to which of these schools to apply so that they can achieve their ambitious dreams. I did not say an interesting person has to have intellectual interests <em>and</em> ambitious life/career goals <em>and</em> concern for world affairs. I meant these were different qualities that different interesting people have. I highly doubt that top schools do not have a tiny proportion of students that have at least one of those four qualities. If that is the case, these forums must be composed completely of story-makers.</p></li>
<li><p>I guess some of you thought I was only talking about the Ivy League or something. I mentioned that many ambitious people cannot afford to go to expensive private schools and to consider going to a flagship state public school. So that is fifty public schools, the ivy league, top business schools, top technical schools, and top liberal arts colleges. I was including a lot of schools when I said “top schools.” I guess some thought I was talking about the difference in student quality between a lower-ranked top school and a higher-ranked top school. Obviously there is not going to be a noticeable difference, if any, in that case.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>P.S.
I know you were not talking about specifically my case mom2collegekids, but just on a related note, yes I have met the engineers here too. Same problem. They do have higher stats, but they chose this school for the scholarship money and don’t have any actual ambitions.</p>

<p>I hope I am not sounding like a stats-elitist to anyone. What I am saying is that there is a small proportion (note: small) that go to top schools <em>for a reason</em>. No one goes to average schools <em>for a reason,</em> and naturally this is because they have no ambitions in mind.</p>

12

<p>I think there is some truth in what you say. Today, so many more kids go to college than ever before. Where I live, every high school’s goal is 100% college-bound graduates! There is an expectation that one <em>must</em> attend college whether it meshes with one’s ambitions or not. So there are probably a lot of students at average colleges who have the same attitude about it as high school - “just gettin through…” to move on to the next phase of life, whatever that may be.</p>

13

<p>

I actually agree 100% with all of this. Well said.</p>

<p>It should especially be pointed out that one program does not a school make. Many students have the mentality that “sure, AcceptsZombies State U isn’t that great, but it’s really good at X…” This is problematic for several reasons, including the likelihood of a major switch, the degree of resources available in general, and (as the OP points out) the drive and ambition of the students themselves.</p>

14

<p>I think you are doing creative writing today. Nice try though.</p>

15

<p>Although I’m an applicant this year, this is actually my reason for wanting to attend a top school. Although I am sure you can find “intellectual” types anywhere, they are not in such a high percentage that it is inevitable that you will meet them.</p>

<p>The student body is simply different at no name schools than the top 50s. Just my opinion though.</p>

16

<p>In general messenger, I agree with you. This is one reason I supported my child not taking a NMF free ride and instead going to a school with other students who had similar priorities and goals. Fortunately, it was affordable. However, I do worry about your periods of energy and depression. I understand that a lot of your mental health issues are situational. But, bipolar depression is genetic and those with bipolar disorder often have difficult childhoods because their parents have not been treated for their bipolar illness. Check it out with a mental health professional.</p>

17

<p>You’re a sample of 1. So you went to a school that was a bad fit for you. That doesn’t mean that attending an affordable school for you that may be a bit below the top school you can get into is universally a bad idea. I have an anecdote, too. I turned down Emory (where I would’ve been expected to pay a lot out of pocket) to go to a school that’s on the second-tier of the U.S. News rankings - in the 50-60 range. I had a fantastic time, met lots of interesting people, had intellectual growth and I’m now at an Ivy League university for my PhD.</p>

<p>It’s also difficult to have perspective when you are a college senior. Before those loans are due, you might think it was such a great idea to attend Favorite University while borrowing $15,000 a year. But once those loans come in and you can’t afford to pay, the story changes.</p>

<p>I’m not going to say prestige and reputation doesn’t matter at all, because it does. I’m also not going to say the student bodies aren’t different because they are. There’s a marked difference between the undergraduates at my alma mater and the undergrads here at Columbia. But it’s not like the women at my undergraduate college were unmotivated losers simply because they missed the top 50 by a couple of slots. On the contrary, they were very motivated, intellectual women, concerned with changing the world in positive ways and with a big emphasis on service. I think the issue of prestige/reputation is sometimes overrated and going to a top school isn’t necessarily going to make anyone’s life 100% better. It’s about going to a school that fits <em>you</em></p>

<p>And I’m certainly not going to advocate borrowing $70K to go to #10 over borrowing only $10K to go to #40. I just don’t think the cumulative difference between those schools is worth $60K plus interest, especially when the vast majority of college graduates can’t hope to make $70K or higher straight out of university. I think that students and parents need to come to a balance on cost and prestige.</p>

18

<p>oh your story makes me so sad…I’m sorry TheMessenger</p>