<p>Hello everyone, just to take everyone's mind of acceptances a bit :), can anyone give me their take on what BFA MT programs offer the strongest dance programs? I have done some research and made some mental notes, but I would really welcome the input from those of you who have auditioned on campus and have had the opportunity to tour the facilities and meet the faculty. Thanks so much!</p>
<p>My daughter is a dancer (you know her actually I think, from BTP) and dance within an MT program was very important in our search and in the list of schools she auditioned at. Not all of the schools she auditioned at are strong in dance, because that would have eliminated some programs which she felt were so strong in another area that THAT was more important than the dance, but here are the schools we felt had the best dance within the program: Elon, Florida State, Syracuse, Point Park, UM, PSU, Otterbein, NYU, OCU, and Muhlenberg. She did not end up auditioning at OCU since she had other acceptances and it is so far away from our home. NYU doesn't have a dance audition any more, so our assesment is based on research only. Toughest dance auditions were at Florida State, Elon and followed by Syracuse and Point Park. She took dance classes at Elon, Muhlenberg and Otterbein on visits and enjoyed them very much. She attended MPulse in 2005 and had a chance to take a couple of master dance classes which she also enjoyed. Dance facilities at Florida State are AWESOME!! Newly renovated, bright, excellent. Elon also has brand new dance rooms in their performing arts building--three rooms I think. We have visited all of these schools except OCU,(some more than once) so ask if you have more questions. I'd be happy to help!</p>
<p>OCU didn't do a dance audition. My impression is that they firstly wanted strong voices. They do have a brand new dance building coming online in the next year. Dance Management is a separate school at OCU, which probably speaks to it's focus. Others have indicated in the past that scheduling of the dance classes is hard sometimes; I wonder if that is because of the space constraints and might get better in the new building.</p>
<p>S felt like the dance audition at Elon was stronger than what he experienced at Belmont the week before. That said, I think that dance audition was really more to give the staff a sense for capability and a preliminary leveling more than skill already in place. There are a number of posters with good Elon information that coulds tell you more.</p>
<p>I don't weigh in here often, but I feel I could put my two cents worth in on the dance offered at Elon. My daughter is a Sophomore MT there and is a fairly strong dancer, especially in tap. She has, though, grown tremendously as a dancer at Elon. She has been able to develop an interest in choreography there as well, which she never had time for in HS. Over Christmas Break I let her choreograph for a few solos I had started at the studio I own, where she grew up dancing, and she had lots of new ideas. She cannot say enough about how fabulous the dance classes are at Elon!! There are several terrific instructors and thus a lot of options for classes and different styles of dance. My daughter transferred there last January from another school but has already taken 7 dance classes. She just can't squeeze enough of them into her schedule and is actually hoping to earn a dance minor as well, with the MT. MT's can also audition for the Dance Concert and she will be in a jazz and tap piece for that show. She truly loves all aspects of the Elon program!!! I can't believe the growth and confidence that has blossomed there, not just in dance but especially in Voice and Acting too. The classes seem intense but the instructors are nurturing and caring. She has made many great friends in the dept. and many seem to do a lot together outside of class as well. She is constantly learning new material, developing acting scenes, practicing songs and auditioning, not just for the dept. shows but for workshops/master classes, various theater companies that come to campus and now singing every week in a performance class. So often, she has said "if I knew then what I know now, I would never even have considered much less gone to the other school"! At any rate, if you are looking for the opportunity to continue to grow in or get better at dance as well as voice and acting....definitely put Elon on your list! If you want more information feel free to email me. </p>
<p>PS: It does seem that there are some kids that went to Elon for the BA in Theater or Dance and have reauditioned for the MT program once there for a semester or two. My daughter said that some have been accepted in the program. Even if you are not in MT, I believe you are able to take voice lessons, though it is probably extra.</p>
<p>wow...you just sold me on Elon...if i was still looking for schools!! :)
it's a little too far from home for me, but that sounds like exactly what I wanted from a college: MT with a lot of dance, and especially opportunities for choreography. sounds great! best of luck to your daughter!!</p>
<p>Showmom -- I am so thrilled to hear how happy your daughter is at Elon. Wha a great endorsement for that school. I can only be happy that my daughter, who learned to tap from you, will be as happy at NYU. Thanks for posting!</p>
<p>Whoops, typing too fast. I meant " I can only hope that my daughter, who learned to tap from you, will be as happy at NYU."</p>
<p>Well, you never know ;) .... she has said that there is a girl, that she is friends with, who transferred from NYU this past Fall into BFA Acting. She just reauditioned and got into MT.</p>
<p>But, seriously, I hope she is happy too!</p>
<p>Personally, I don't think it's very hard to find an MT program that's good in dance. The real trouble is finding one that's good in acting.</p>
<p>that's an interesting thought, tarhunt...i think NYU is most known for turning out good actors...from what i've heard. what do you think?</p>
<p>VTBroadwayBaby:</p>
<p>I'm sorry. I just don't have enough experience with specifically NYU-trained actors to have a useful opinion. But here's an overall take.</p>
<p>Musical theater, as you may know, is not highly respected by actors who do non-musical theater (in fact, many actors call non-MT theater "legitimate" theater). It is also not highly respected by opera singers or ballet dancers. The reason, I think, is because MT performers do all three, and are rarely as good at any one of those things as people who make a single thing their lives' work.</p>
<p>Musical theater scores generally are not as demanding as opera scores. The dance requirements usually fall short of the demands of most dance troupes. The book usually makes lesser demands on acting that what is demanded by Shakespeare, Chekov, and the like.</p>
<p>Having said all that, my overall impression is that MT programs know that the two discrete skills their students must have to get work are extraordinary singing voices and very good dance skills. Acting in most musicals (with notable exceptions, of course) is generally pretty broad stuff, and of the three skills, acting is probably the one that most MT folks can fudge.</p>
<p>I just want to post a big thank you to all who took the time to respond and more or less helped confirm that I am on the "right track" putting together my list. NYdancemom - yes I do know your daughter from BTP :) she is incredibly talented and so deserving of all the good news you have received, I guess the tough part will be to decide on where to go now, not a bad position to be in :)</p>
<p>actually tarhunt...i really agree with your post a lot, but i never really thought about it that much...it's true, i think, that singing and dance are often more important than the acting...although in some shows, acting is becoming more important....</p>
<p>VTBB:</p>
<p>The problem, as I see it, is that it is now a lot harder than it used to be to cross over from regular to MT theater and vice versa. This is especially hard on the MT specialists, since most theater is non-MT. I've sat in on auditions where the director really wanted to cast an MT actress or actor, but couldn't get them to tone down the "mugginess" enough to feel comfortable that they wouldn't come across as brassy and fake.</p>
<p>Personally, I think MT programs would do their charges a favor by forcing them to train hard in acting, and to do demanding, non-MT roles.</p>
<p>Tarhunt, as you know, MT performers need to be skilled in three areas: singing, acting and dancing. However, I disagree that acting is the one skill area that a MT actor can "fudge". Of the three skill sets, often dancing is the one that CAN be weak, because there are many musicals and/or roles that involve little dance. (Dance IS important, don't get me wrong). But there are roles people can be cast in who are weak dancers. I think all musical theater actors need to be able to ACT. It is the theater, after all. I suppose MAYBE someone in the chorus could get by with strong voice and dance skills and weak acting skills. BUT for any role other than chorus, I think one MUST be able to ACT. Even if the role involves NO script, a song must be ACTED to be believable. I have seen people who can sing but who cannot act the song and no matter how well they sing, it doesn't work so well in musical theater. So, I do believe a MT actor needs to be well skilled at singing, acting and dance, but if one area is weak, often it can be dance, if auditioning for certain roles that are not chorus. </p>
<p>VTBroadwayBaby, I can't equivocally answer whether NYU/Tisch turns out "good actors." However, it is a DRAMA program. The degree even for MT actors is in DRAMA. Acting is a critical component of the program every semester and treated equally with voice and all forms of dance. I think they do care about training ACTORS. From my limited observation so far, one thing actually that has struck me at the performances I have attended thus far on campus is how well the singers can ACT. It has been one compelling difference I have noticed in their performances compared to youth I have seen perform prior to my attending these college shows. I'm talking simply of acting a song, not just the spoken word. And now that I have seen it done so well by these young adults, I see how much of a difference it makes that they are well trained in acting as they are much more believable when they sing in the role of their characters. So, I don't think that MT folks can be weak at acting. </p>
<p>Back to the original topic for a moment.....I think anyone with a strong dance background truly needs to examine the curriculum of these BFA in MT programs. Some offer way less dance per year than others. Also, some put all levels of dancers, regardless of background into the same classes. Having a kid who has danced her entire life, this was a component that we did look into. Speaking for NYU/Tisch/CAP21, ONE of the appealing aspects is that there are many levels of ballet, jazz, and tap for each semester for each grade. They have placement auditions when you arrive. Those with years of dance background are sufficiently challenged and in classes with others with strong backgrounds/skills and those starting out have classes appropriate to their level.</p>
<p>Soozie- you said: I have seen people who can sing but who cannot act the song and no matter how well they sing, it doesn't work so well in musical theater.</p>
<p>(by the way, how do i highlight someone's quote from a previous post?)</p>
<p>I completely agree with this statement, because I have seen this so often myself. I think that acting in MT is inextricably woven in with the singing (and dancing). It's easy to sing a song "beautifully" or "well", but sometimes a presentation can be so boring. And how many times have you seen someone with a voice of perhaps slightly less quality who performs incredibly, and has such a spark and stage presence, you can't tear your eyes away??? Acting a song is so vital to a good performance, and I imagine most MT programs train this kind of acting a lot.
I mentioned on another post that I am stage managing a straight play, Little Women. Our director really hates when people are obviously "acting". He stresses naturalism, and bring yourself into a character...not just saying the line in a way that "sounds good". I've seen a lot of BIG acting in MT and in MT auditions, which is sometimes called for, particularly, and I stress, particularly, in more of the older, classic musical theatre. Although, now there are so many contemporary shows which feature, in my mind, a more subdued sense of acting. Some MT acting seemingly HAS to be large and energetic and, for lack of a better word, BIG...i think of spring awakening as an example where a real sense of ACTING is needed...it's much more subdued and different type of piece...and it is still musical theatre</p>
<p>that was SUCH a rant, i have no idea if I had any clarity whatsoever...so good luck if you feel like reading that!! just my two sense, because I've been thinking and talking A LOT about acting lately with other performers/directors/etc. and so it is at the forefront of my mind. i love learning about the process of acting. wow.</p>
<p>soozie:</p>
<p>You and I will have to disagree, but let me elaborate a bit.</p>
<p>First, let me say that I'm not talking about what should be. If that were the case, I would say that acting is paramount. I'm talking about what I perceive to be "what is." I'm also talking about ... and this is important ... being the most marketable one can be. That means qualifying for the most roles in MT that are available.</p>
<p>So, with that in mind, let me respond.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Yes, there are some roles in MT that don't require dancing. However, these tend to be lead or major supporting roles. One works one's way into those roles, generally, by starting out in roles that require superior singing and dancing. If one doesn't have those skills to start, it is unlikely that one will get a shot at the non-dancing roles. I'm sure it has happened, but it's not a high-probability strategy.</p></li>
<li><p>I take my position based on what I perceive to be the reality of actual shows both on B'way, on tour, and to a lesser degree, in MT productions in regional theater (though they're rather rare). I have seen many productions in many places, and my perception is that the acting that happens on the MT stage is not even close to the acting one sees on the non-MT stage. Just because one can brass one's way through Mame doesn't mean one can do Lady Macbeth. Truly Scrumptious can be played by anyone who can do a basic ingenue role, which is pretty much everyone with any skill at all. It doesn't mean that the actress playing that role can pull off Hedda Gabler!</p></li>
</ol>
<p>And, frankly, most MT roles don't call for much acting skill. Plots are usually pretty straightforward. Roles tend to be two-dimensional and more caricature than character. I have yet to see a Javert who wasn't stiff or a Marius who loved Cosette more than he did Enjolras ;-). </p>
<p>So, yes, I feel that one can fudge the acting on most MT roles because they just don't call for a lot of skill.</p>
<p>Tarhunt....
to make a quote box...you need to put [ quote ] directly before the quote but eliminate the spaces I just put there. Then, directly on the end of the quote, add: [/ quote ] but again, eliminate the spaces I just inserted.</p>
<p>Yeah, I guess we disagree on some things. Let me reiterate that I think it is highly important that a MT trained actor be able to dance. I think a triple threat actor is the most viable auditionee. A good training program will work on all three of these skill sets. I have met far too many applicants with no dance background and I urge all candidates to start dance now if they haven't already. So, I do believe in the importance of dance. My own kid trained 13 hours per week in the various dance disciplines prior to college. </p>
<p>However, I do not agree on that working MT actors can be weak in acting. It doesn't matter if the acting in some musicals is not of the type that one would find in Chekhov or Shakespeare. Acting chops are still necessary. By the way, my D's MT program includes acting training with Chekhov and Shakespeare as well. They study straight acting methods such as Stanislavsky, voice and speech for actors, Scene Study, and musical theater scene study, for example. They don't just act musical theater scripts. But it doesn't matter if a MT actor is superb at Shakespeare, etc. or not. It need not be a comparison with straight drama. The point is, a MT performer MUST be able to act. Musicals involve scripts for one thing. And as I said earlier, acting a song is critical. Besides being trained in vocal technique, a good BFA in MT program also has courses in Vocal Performance (the acting and interpretting of a song). Again, a really good singer doesn't mean a person is a very good MT actor. It is one thing to perform in a concert (even then, acting and interpretting a song helps) but surely another situation to sing in a piece of theater which involves a story line and character. That is why training in MT is not the same as training purely in Vocal Performance. After all, this is THEATER we are talking about, not purely concert singing and dancing.</p>
<p>It is critical that a MT training program include singing, acting, and dance. Many auditions (other than for chorus) involve singing, dance, and sides. Further, a versatile MT actor should be able to audition for straight theater roles. Acting is quite important and most college BFA programs in MT require monologues as part of the audition process, whereas SOME BFA programs do not require dance as part of the audition process (though I believe they should). I haven't run into BFA in MT programs that do not require monologues as part of the artistic review for admissions, however.</p>
<p>There is nothing worse (in my opinion) than weak acting in a musical. The singing voice is most important, then the acting. I am forgiving (as a member of the audience, not an expert) of a missed dance step, but I can not enjoy a musical when the acting is fudged.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Tarhunt....
to make a quote box...you need to put [ quote ] directly before the quote but eliminate the spaces I just put there. Then, directly on the end of the quote, add: [/ quote ] but again, eliminate the spaces I just inserted.
[/quote]
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