Ran across this and thought it might make interesting discussion or at least provide some insight for aspiring law students and lawyers:
http://www.businessinsider.com/bar-passage-exam-rates-have-dropped-in-several-key-states-2015-11
it would be good for society – but not “legal education” – if a bunch of no-name law schools closed their doors. According to BLS, we still graduate 2x as many JD’s as we need. What is the point of graduated all those newly minted lawyers – with massive debt, guaranteed by us taxpayers – if they can’t get a job as a lawyer.
I agree with Bluebayou. Everything below the US News top 75- which would eliminate about 1/2 of the country’s law schools- should go.
Wouldn’t that mean pulling the rug of “opportunity” out from under a lot of students? I’m sure some of them go on to productive legal careers.
But that opportunity comes with a $100,000 plus student loan.
Maybe you could make an exception for law schools that graduate students with much less debt than average.
But which schools? The lower-ranked schools tend to accept students with the lowest GPA/LSAT and then saddle them with the highest debt.
But since there’s no executive fiat to be exercised in closing any law schools, it’s all just wishful thinking.
The ABA could close law schools by tightening accreditation standards, it just won’t for fear of antitrust suits/regulatory capture.
Well, that’s been their excuse for years, but I suspect that there are significantly less legal/noble reasons for it. It’s pretty clear the ABA is totally removed from the real world(read their recent analysis of law student debt/law school tuition) and it’s pretty clear that the ABA is run by the schools. It’s also worth noting that the AMA has a virtual stranglehold on the number of medical schools in the US with no apparent antitrust/regulatory capture issues.
The feds could make it happen by eliminating/heaving restricting Grad Plus loans but alas, “college” is good for everybody. 
A lot of lawyers like to think that that the grass is always greener, but the above is incorrect. The major restriction on med schools is the cap on the number of residencies that the feds will pay for (part of Medicare reimbursement, if I recall). Unlike law schools, which are generally cash cows, med school classes are really small and the school itself is really expensive to operate, and without the promise of federal funding…
Plus, think about the marginal operation of a LS: one additional transfer is $50k cash in the bank, with no additional increase in costs. 10 transfers == a cool, half million of profit.
In contrast, med schools have space constraints. They couldn’t add 10 additional students if they wanted to. No lab space for them, without major construction.
“In contrast, med schools have space constraints. They couldn’t add 10 additional students if they wanted to. No lab space for them, without major construction.”
Not sure where you’re getting your information BB, but you’re flat wrong. Actually, everything you wrote is either misleading or wrong.
Schools have been adding students regularly the past several years-and in fact, there are a couple of relatively new medical schools in the US. It’s all carefully guided by the AMA(through AAMC), again with no antitrust complaints. The increase will be near 30% by 2019.
https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/newsreleases/431036/20150430.html
You’d think that someone with enough spare time to post almost 23,000 times would bother to check the facts. I guess it’s a lot of work being an expert in the law-even though not a lawyer-and an expert on medicine-although not a physician. It does help to ignore the facts and to generalize ceaselessly(“A lot of lawyers…”).
man, aren’t we cranky today?
your own article reinforces what i just posted:
And, the press release says nothing about the expense of adding those slots. (hint: it ain’t cheap, unlike adding a slot in a law school, which is marginally zero.)
For example, this took two google clicks: new med school building costs $375 million. It will add 40 students to each class size. Nearly $9+ million per new seat per class. In contrast, GULC and HLS could easily add 40 students at a mere pittance of that price. Just a few adjuncts will do it since they already have the physical plant.
https://medicine.buffalo.edu/new-medical-school.html
btw: how do you know what I do, or don’t do? (I’ve never posted it.)
No, I only get cranky when people who are wrong-you-tell me that I’m incorrect. Yes, it’s a burden being an expert at everything-as witnessed by those 22,000+ posts of yours-but again the facts are inconvenient things
You blithely ignore the fact that applicatiobns to and enrollment at medical schools is in fact increasing at medical schools, contra to what your post said:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/MedicalEducation/54236
and the fact that the schools will be increasing enrollment by a full 30% by 2019, but you ignore these facts.instead focusing on residency slots. If you recall-please read your earlier post-you claimed the lack of residency slots inhibited any growth in enrollment. That’s not correct, as evidenced by the above. HINT: The slots have been added, expense or no. And what does the cost of medical school v. law school have to do with anything? It’s a false comparison and a false argument.
So-are you a lawyer? Ever taken the bar? Ever practiced law? You haunt this forum as an expert; I seem to recall your only claim to expertise is a child who applied/attended law school. I did my best to wade through your eons of posts, but it’s clear that you’ve got lots of opinions on lots of topics-so what’s the basis for your expertise?
And the same for medicine-and sweeping generalization…“a lot of lawyers…” what is the basis for this expertise?
Bottom lines:
(1) while shutting down all law schools below the US News top 75 could eliminate opportunities for some people who are intelligent but just couldn’t get it together to attend one of the top 75, we’d all save time and energy if those schools were closed since most people who would be weeded out from the legal profession just aren’t that capable and hold up deals with their idiocy; and
(2) it’s not necessary to be a lawyer to post in this thread; non-lawyers can have good insights.
Wow-HA weren’t you the one who grilled Demo relentlessly about his credentials and wrote things like
“Excellent post, boolaHI. Sidenote: @Demosthenes, I am “officially” ignoring you” because you didn’t think his opinion was worth addressing b/c he hadn’t proven to you he had any experience in the law?
Anybody can post here-but what created the change in heart for you? If you’ve forgotten, just review a few of your old posts…They were pretty adamant-at one point you even claimed to have 'blocked" his posts.
So what makes bb’s completely uninformed opinions so valuable?
crankyoldman, think like a lawyer and read closely:
My statement: “non-lawyers can have good insights”.
Fact: Demosthenes might or might not be a lawyer. She refuses to state her background or anything that would help identify what field she works in.
Does it follow that if Demosthenes is not a lawyer, then Demosthenes has good insights?
NO.
Yes, your answer is very lawyerly, as it doesn’t really answer anything. Good work.
crankyoldman, you’re clearly looking for a fight today. Happy Thanksgiving to you, too.
It takes two to fight. You’re not worth my time, so you’ll need to either (1) find someone else to fight with or (2) yell at a cement block or Demosthenes or something.
It’s good to be not worth your time; I saw your exchange with that kid from Texas on the MBA forum. I don’t think I could withstand your rapier-like wit.
It’s clear you have major issues with those who disagree with you. Enjoy!
Here you go cranky, a good article which discusses the doc issues.
This cap on training spots is stablished by Congress.
Med schools can’t increase much if there is no where for their grads to go. Plus, and this is really important, unlike law school, part of med education is paid directly by the feds. The fed won’t pay for more students than the residency cap allows.
Officially, the AMA is on record for increasing the numbers of resident slots (paid for by Congress). Indeed, it has been their official policy for nearly 15 years. (you can look it up.)
http://fortune.com/2013/04/01/medical-students-confront-a-residency-black-hole/
Law school is nothing like this. The University of Phoenix can hire adjuncts and open a law school. In certain states like California, law schools don’t even need to be ABA-approved for their students to sit for the bar. LA’s former mayor, (and likely future governor hopeful), graduated from People’s. At least its relatively cheap since their students are ineligible for federal loans.
http://www.peoplescollegeoflaw.edu
Happy Holidays to you and yours!