<p>I just read in the paper this morning that San Diego State had almost 49,000 applications (freshman & transfer) for about 7,000 spots this fall, up from about 20,000 five years ago. The average GPA of enrolled freshman has gone up by .35, and the average SAT score by 88 points over a similar 5 year period. (The exact time period isn't clear from what I read.)</p>
<p>This kind of ties into a couple of threads I was following: The increased competition for spots at even the less prestigious schools, and the way it drives up the caliber of students throughout the college "spectrum" - not just the ivies. The bad news is that there's going to be a lot of kids going to colleges that are less prestigious than their parents may be expecting based on their grades and test scores and historical norms. The good news is, there's going to be a lot of other bright kids there with them.</p>
<p>Maybe it has something to do with the trend (at least here on cc) away from just big-name-or-die to more of a "What is the best fit for me?" atmosphere. </p>
<p>Aren't the number of apps students send out increasing, too? Wouldn't that drive up competition?</p>
<p>And maybe the increasing numbers of high school students. The percentage that score higher on tests and get higher grades may not be increasing, but that percentage includes more people.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to compare the yield of 2000 to the yield of 2005. Could the increase of applications be tracked to a greater number of blanket applications seeking to lock in safeties? </p>
<p>FWIW, it seems that the figure of 20,000 for 2000 was a bit off. SDSU had 31,071 applicants in 2000, admitted 18,167, and 6,483 enrolled.</p>
<p>In 2004, the equivalent figures were 44,058 - 21,400 - 7,667. </p>
<p>The growth is remarkable but not as sensational as a 20K to 50K in 5 years.</p>
<p>I know for sure that due to online applications, the number of schools per student has also gone up significantly. So it's not <em>just</em> the increase of applicants.</p>
<p>I think Xiggi is right. More kids have to look at schools like SDSU as the UCs have become much harder to get into due to budget cuts and the baby boomlet.</p>
<p>Xiggi - you're right. The 20,000 figure was just freshman applications, and the 2005 number included transfers. The story didn't break down the current number between freshmen and transfers. I looked up the freshman numbers and got this:<br>
2004 freshman only numbers were 33,334 apps, 15,830 admitted, and 4140 enrolled.
2000 freshman only numbers were 20,439 apps, 13,249 admitted, and 3210 enrolled.
So for freshmen I get a 61% increase in applications over 4 years from 2000 to 2004, with the ratio of freshmen applicants admitted declining from 65% to 47%, and with the yield slightly up, from 24% to 26%. And although I haven't seen a breakdown of freshmen vs. transfer applications for 2005 the total applications increased another 10% from 2004 to 2005.</p>
<p>Not as big as 20,000 - 49,000, but even 31,000 to 49,000 in 5 years puts a lot of pressure on the demand side of the equation, which explains the higher "price" in terms of GPA and SAT needed to "buy" a seat. I think the GPA and SAT score increase I referenced earlier covered or at least greatly overlapped with that same time period.</p>
<p>I wonder why SDSU hasn't gone up in the US News rankings. I think the school is becoming competitve with schools like the Univ of Oregon and Arizona, stat wise.
Between UCSC and SDSU, I'm not sure UCSC is a clear cut winner.</p>
<p>Kfc4U - I think SDSU has several draws: first, location. Second, excellent business programs, a decent communications/journalism program, and good education programs - all of which can not be easily found at the lower UC's. San Diego State seems to have better name recognition state-wide than many of the other cal states (probably right behind Cal Poly SLO in terms of name recognition) And, don't forget the cost of SDSU is significantly lower than the UC's, especially with ever rising UC tuition.</p>
<p>Yes, Carolyn...and a well thought-out Classics program, more impressive & less "basic" than one usually finds at a State U. (Had suggested that to valuable1212, but she may have other ideas by now.)</p>
<p>From what I remember, Cal Poly, SDSU, and Chico are supposed to be (or were, I guess, since this was from reading the archives in this forum) the top three CSU's. That is probably a bid draw. And I bet the overall biggest draw is the locations....a lot of kids here want to move down south (<em>smh</em> the fools don't know what they have). Anyway, I applied there too....it was my second choice behind Chico (where I got into)...but my mom is having a hard time letting me move ~300 miles away, I do not know what she would do if I suggested SD.</p>
<p>I'd say it's probably a combination of the location and "what's best for me" trend. A beautiful area combined with D1 sports and excellent business programs will make a lot of students choose San Diego over the supposedly "better" UC's. Maybe students are leaning away from impressing others and more towards making themselves happier. At least, I hope this is the case.</p>
<p>"cal states dont get ranked in usnwr for undergrad because they arent research universities"</p>
<p>Not exactly. they don't get ranked with the UC's, but are ranked in their own category with other schools that only offer BS and MS. I believe the top ones in the category are Santa Clara, Gonzaga, and Cal Poly. Not sure where San Diego placed.</p>
<p>In the main, CSU's are commuter schools. One thing tht the three-oft mentioned schools have that the others do not is a sense of community due to the fact that they have on-campus housing. For exmple, Fullerton, which (used to be?) ranked in the Best of West category for Master's programs (the Cal States are precluded from granting doctoral degrees), host 32,000 students, but only "800 bed spaces' on campus (for an entering Frosh class ~4k). In contrast, San Diego, which is similar in size, has 4 times the number of beds available. Thus, for kids that want to go away to school and participate fully in a campus community, the Cal States offer few realistic choices. Renting a house in Fullerton and taking a city bus to school just ain't the same.</p>
<p>btw: parents may remember that Chico and San Diego first came into the national consciousness back in the '70's when both made Playboy's top party school designation. Not sure about Chico these days, but TJ is still a big draw to SD kids since the drinking age is 18 South of the Border.</p>
<p>Bluebayou: several of the UCs are also virtual commuter schools, for example at UCI, you get housing first year and then after that, there is a lottery for campus aprtments plus people rent local apartments, join a frat/sorority and hope to live in the house, or if you're cool, you rent a house on Newport Beach. It is tougher to come up with that sense of school community than at UCLA, which also doe snot have enough guaranteed housing, but at least has the realitic possibility of some housing after year 1.</p>
<p>of course you are correct in that the UCs have a lot of commuters, at least in comparison to private schools. However, my post was meant only to address the Cal States and not the UCs per se. But, you raise an interesting point:</p>
<p>UCLA has 9,000 on-campus beds for 39,000 students
UCI has 3,000 beds for 23,000 students </p>
<p>Note, however, on a per capita basis, UC Irvine has more on-campus housing than SDSU which has a similar number of available beds, but significantly more students than Irvine.</p>
<p>Carolyn raises the issue well, the programs are significantly different between the these two specific schools, but also the two state systems.</p>
<p>I sort of assumed that the application growth and stat inflation as reported at SDSU was typical - and just a reflection of a general trend, but these comments piqued my curiosity. A number of the CSU's and a couple of UC's post common data set info from prior years, some back to 2000 or even 1999, so you can compare the number of applicants, acceptances, and enrollees over time, as well as the GPAs and SATs of the freshmen who do enroll. Not all have the same years, etc., but what comes through is that there are great differences in growth at different schools. CSU Long Beach reports a big jump in applications from 2000 to 2003 - 13K to 27K, with only a slight increase in acceptances and enrollment. Their GPA and SAT averages went up like SDSU's, though at a somewhat lower level overall. Cal Poly, the top ranked CSU, had only modest growth in applications during the same period, as did the UC's I could find - less than 10% per year. That may be a factor of their acceptance standards being high to begin with, and self-selection by applying students who knew that. The less well known CSU's which posted records showed growth, but not the dramatic increases in applications that CSULB and SDSU show, and also not the same big increase in enrolled freshmen's GPA's and SAT scores. So maybe it's a mistake to draw global conclusions from one or two schools. Carolyn may be right - the spill over from the UC's appears to be primarily affecting a handful of the better known CSUs. </p>
<p>As for rankings, SDSU is ranked as a research/doctoral national University, along with the UC's - I think it's the only CSU which is in that category. Going there, it's interesting to compare SDSU with UC Riverside in terms of perception and rankings. SDSU has 50% more applicants, but admits and enrolls virtually the same number of students as UCR, with similar GPA and SAT scores (slight edge to SDSU). USNews ranks UCR #81, SDSU 4th tier in the same category. I'm sure there are lots of differences between the schools, but - ah, what's in a name?</p>
<p>I think in many kids minds SDSU is more "prestigious" than UC Riverside. And, certainly, given a choice between a location in Riverside and a location in San Diego, most kids would lean towards San Diego. </p>
<p>I did my MBA at SDSU and I can honestly say I was pleased overall with the business school - they have some very interesting programs (their program in international business is ranked in the top 20 I believe) and good faculty. The downsides of SDSU remain large intro. class sizes, difficulty getting into classes, difficulty getting advising, and housing (It is still mainly a commuter school). But, if a student is motivated and aggressive about seeking help and making contacts with professors, it can be a good experience.</p>
<p>In terms of "commuter school" ambience, it's not just the number of on-campus beds which tells the story. I think that Chico only has dorm room for freshmen, but it's surrounded by a vibrant "college town" community. (And no real "commuters", since Chico is basically in the middle of nowhere.) Davis and Berkeley are also good examples of a "college town" atmosphere despite limited dorm space.</p>