Big Promises, Little Delivery by Swarthmore

Paying for College
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<p>These recent posts really underscore that none of us have a crystal ball. When I said “straightforward,” I missed the fact that, yes, you could have a zero Fafsa EFC, but still assets the CSS would capture. Or whatever EFC and have financial responsibilities the CSS can miss the impact of.</p>

<p>I joined CC with huge fears about aid (before the advent of NPCs.) I’ve told the tale of going early to our state college aid advisors (whatever they are called,) after running the first Fafsa4caster, where it suggested we would have to come up with way more $ than remotely doable. The lady actually said to me, “That’s what loans are for.” </p>

<p>(Fortunately, my run was off.) </p>

<p>There are so many tales of how need was met- or not. First, the family must know what they could truly afford- what they can realistically do and what more they could possibly squeeze, if it comes to that. And a bit more each year, as costs increase. Plus, if you take parent loans, what they will actually drain from your ongoing income, starting in spring of 1st year- and growing.</p>

<p>I told D1, if a school doesn’t offer the aid we need, it is not a dream school. That would have applied equally to an Ivy. When it comes to the adult (or what should be the "adult’) view of costs, the more you need, the more you must be deadly serious about this, no pie in the sky, no but it’s College X. </p>

<p>I’ve really come to appreciate the idea of skipping ED to be able to compare offers. Even so, there has to be smarts, some self-education, and analysis behind that. Don’t think you’re going to apply to BU, NYU, some OOS public schools, etc, and magically have great offers to compare. </p>

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<p>Lookingforward, it’s true that you can’t expect anything these days. I just read a post where the maximum merit without need award at a school I know gave out much more generous scholarships has reduced them to $5K a year. When costs are soaring over $60K , even what I consider generous and hefty awards can end up still making schools cost so much. I am leery of ED for just that reason, though for those who really know what they want and where the line is on what they can afford to pay, it’s still a great choice. When it works, it can be beautiful </p>

<p>Last year, a close friend of ours actually did have some great offers to compare among BU, NYU, OOS publics as well as instate publics with BU coming up with a surprisingly generous package that made it about the same price as most OOS publics. Still double the cost of our SUNYs, but it was the kids’ first choice, and they decided to go for it. Gotta play to win, when you are talking about a lottery, and so it goes with the college process. But had they applied ED, though they may have likely gotten the same package, they would not know that it would be their best deal. That it was RD and all of the schools and their bottom line prices were on the table, made it a clear choice and they had no “woulda, coulda” type thoughts. BC turned him down, Holy Cross gave no money,nor did NYU, nor did NorthEastern. It’s good to see the whole array.</p>

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<p>Cpt, I’ve followed your prior comments about how some needs-based schools may tow the line, but still seem to offer more to some kids, to entice them. I agree. But I can’t point to some direct proof. (I do know that certain sorts of discretion are allowed to FAOs, but that’s not predictable.) I struggle with how to succinctly explain how to “play to win” the finaid game. I did a lot of homework on aid, what counts as assets, what may be ignored, how to interpret the words on the colleges’ finaid pages. I started when D1 was in 9th, so we had time to process, so to say. And I still think, even with NPCs, that there is some voodoo in there.</p>

<p>My personal opinion is to apply to colleges that will see you as highly desirable, a great add- again, that’s hard to turn into succinct advice. Except, not to be caught in the sinkhole of Ivy Fever or Reach-o-Mania. And to read everything you can on target schools, what they value and offer in programs and opportunities. So you can get a better handle on the real personal matches- not just the stats aspects. </p>

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<p>Apply to at least one financial safety, one you would attend if all else fails. Schools that meet need (or sometimes meet need) can and do use their money in whatever way they feel best suits their goals and objectives. There is no “for sure” when it comes to these schools, so it is wise to apply to at least a few schools and it is necessary to realize that it might not work out (thus the need for the financial safety that you WOULD attend).</p>

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<p>Lookingforward, you are absolutely correct that there is no sure thing when one is applying for financial aid. If a student’s situation is straightforward, run of the mill, the NPCs for those schools that do not have much or any merit awards and that guarantee to meet full need, seem to be fairly accurate. But “straightforward” is a subjective word Owning a business, have a NCP, a lot of things can throw “straight forward” off. </p>

<p>I agree fully with Kelsmom that at least one financial safety at least should be on the list. Though we were full pay and knew it, and made certain commitments to our kids on what we’d pay, we also looked for some schools that were well under what was affordable. Each of our kids had a school where they could go pretty much for the same cost as commuting to the public high school. My current college kid did not have high flying stats, but he got a local award that would have made community college or local state schools more expensive as he got a full tuition award from them, and it’s very close to our house. Didn’t take it but at least it was on the table to consider. We could see the wide array of costs from Zero to $60K+ for that student and see what each school offered for the costs that it charged. </p>

<p>I’ve seen some situations where parents who started off with a “don’t worry about the cost”, blanched and backed off when the reality of the costs of college hit when the acceptance letters arrived. A lot of parents do expect some aid, some award, and they learn the hard way, that even if they get both, they may not be for the school in mind. </p>

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<p>Also, Lookingforward, one learns from anecdotes, though sometimes they can mislead. I’ve read on these boards of two posters who got little or nothing from financial aid due to a family business situation, who then got nice packages from other schools. Nice to know, for example, that Carlton may view a small business differently from Swarthmore. Nice to learn that CMU will do an estimate before applying ED for packages. Not so nice to find out, but important, that Pitzer may not be giving out $20K merit awards anymore, and that Pitt’s Chancellor Awards have become far more difficult to get and no more automatic admissions to the Honors College with a 1340 or whatever it was two part SAT1 score. This is where being on these boards can help.</p>

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<p>Three years ago we had a shock when one university, (Brandeis) which claimed to meet all financial need if accepted applicant filed by a certain date, (and our FAFSA and CSS both agreed the need was substantial) came in with a whopping six thousand dollars IN LOANS. All other admissions (to much more competitive schools) were far better. We disregarded FA offers that are loans, because that is not real aid- it increases costs.
We appealed, more appalled than hopeful, and got a couple thousand more, in “scholarship.” </p>

<p>Lesson? There isn’t any. Just that the word “FA need” is not universally defined; that schools have their proprietary formulations, and that when looking at stats from universities you must understand that they are often not what they seem. Not in standard English, anyhow.</p>

<p>This did make us appreciate any real and true aid we did get. Brush it off, and march forward.</p>

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<p>I am grateful my last grad’d last month. :slight_smile: </p>

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<p>

Most schools would consider Direct Loans as financial aid; very few schools award financial aid without Direct Loans.</p>

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<p>The issue is when parents see the remainder after loans are included in the package- and forget loans are loans </p>

<p>Our packages included the usual components (incl stu contribution and w/s,) but no loans. It was left to our discretion to pay the Family Contribution or use the Direct Loan or Parent Plus.</p>

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<p>When evaluating the cost of a college with the fin aid package and scholarships in hand, one should take the COA for each school, personalize it the best you can, and then subtract out the grants, not the self help, not the loans from the cost to get that bottom line. </p>

<p>Loans and workstudy are misleading in the fin aid package, particularly the student Direct loans since one can usually borrow them even without need, just lose the interest subsidy, whereas they are counted dollar for dollar in loan amounts, not just that interest subsidy in terms of financial aid. Work study takes away from hours a student can work to meet the expected family contribution. So when comparing packages, the loans should initially be taken out</p>

<p>A lot of the schools that boast that they do not give out loans, have a student contribution that often has to be met through loans if the student/family cannot come up with those funds. Some areas have little or no work available for students, and work study during the school year is already in the package. </p>

<p>I’m surprised about Brandeis. Did they change their policies that year, 205mom, or was their aid formula just not a good fit for your financial situation? I know that they were heavily hit with the Madoff swindle which did affect a number of their financial situations. </p>

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<p>You are correct in your suggestion that the change in policy occurred that year. Had we known this formerly generous school, known for merit aid, had gone into shady-speak… Brandeis insisted they were not affected by the Madoff scheme, but did admit many of their sponsors were affected.
Regardless, my suggestion to them back then was that the wording of their application regarding their guarantee to meet full financial need if accepted applicant files by a certain date <em>needed to be changed.</em> A private school may do as they wish and aid is not a right IMO. But making twisted promises is another matter.
We’re happy, though. Things turned out well. So maybe, in the cosmic sense, Brandeis did us a favor. I wish for anyone who encountered a variation of this anywhere to have as happy an ending as we did.</p>

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<p>Things can and do change without notice with schools which is why I frequently tell posters, anyone that they need to check what current policies are, even after reading one thing on a website A lot these schools are very slow in updating their info, especially what can come up on line and preprinted things. Even changes to their advantage. </p>

<p>It’s also why one might want to cast a wide net. </p>