Big Ten Research University or Small STEM School?

College Search & Selection
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Hi there. I know this thread looks intimidating, but if anyone is willing to offer me some personal advice, I would really, really appreciate it.

I am a high school senior struggling to make my final college decision. I am anticipating a major in engineering with the hopes of eventually working in renewable energy or green materials.

At this point, I am still torn between two schools: South Dakota School of Mines and Technology and University of Minnesota Twin Cities. I did visit Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago and was offered full tuition by interview. Ultimately, however, I decided that IIT, although more diverse and exciting, was too similar to SDSMT to justify the extreme distance and slightly heftier price tag. So I am left with the two schools I have been thinking about seriously for months. It has been really hard for me. In so many ways, they are polar opposites. There are things I love and hate about both places. I feel I can succeed at both schools, but the degree and measure of success that I have could very well be heavily impacted by which school I choose.

Without further ado, I will get into my list of pros and cons (as I understand from research, talking to students, and visiting the campuses myself, both of them twice).

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SOUTH DAKOTA SCHOOL OF MINES AND TECHNOLOGY- PROS

-It’s close to home, meaning I can drive there in two and a half hours. I also have some family in the area, and I will have my own car and in that sense be more independent.

-The class sizes are very small. I would have excellent access to my professors and could form strong relationships with them quite easily. From students I have talked to, this is a huge pro.

-I will be more of a “big fish” in a “small pond.” I don’t know how much high school success equates to college success, but I have a relative who is good friends w/ the director of admissions. He was tipped off that I was the school’s “number one recruit.” I have personally met the school’s president in my hometown, and she has called my house twice. If I go there, I will theoretically have a little less competition for grades and internships, as the stats profile is somewhat lower. Then again, that could also be just a product of students who are smart but lazy. You get my point, though.

-Easy access to facilities could really improve my quality of life. SDSMT has a brand new Newman center and Rec center. Both will have opened within two years upon my attendance, the Rec center opening this fall. Also, a six million dollar renovation to the Chemistry facilities is approved and in the works for Fall of what would be my sophomore year.

-No liberal silliness. This is a somewhat of a pro, I guess. I might be a little more liberal than the average white, Catholic South Dakotan, but I’m not quite Minnesota liberal. In that respect, the extreme conservatism of the campus can be viewed as something somewhat positive, although it also has its downsides.

-It offers a close-knit community just by virtue of its size.

-Big companies recruit at this small school. It touts a ninety-nine percent placement rate, for what it’s worth.

-The location is great for outdoor activities. I won’t have big city opportunities, but I never have had them in my entire life. Rapid City has great opportunities for fishing, skiing, and snowboarding. That could be nice.

-The education (I am almost certain) will be paid for. I pay nothing; my parents might pay a couple thousand a year, if even. I would be able to spend my money on fun, nicer things like a car, wireless speakers, skiing equipment, or maybe a nicer apartment. If I want to pursue graduate education, it would be nice to graduate debt free.

SOUTH DAKOTA SCHOOL OF MINES AND TECHNOLOGY- CONS

-The school is very, very nerdy. And I really mean it. I have seen it firsthand, and I have heard it from other students. I know it sounds like stereotyping, but it definitely bears a degree of truth. I know I’m looking at the Honors program at UMN and at staying in Middlebrook (the honors dorm at UMN), but this school is just plain nerdy. And in my perspective (although I am somewhat nerdy), it’s not my favorite kind of nerdiness. I have heard from students that there a lot of very “weird” people there, and I can kind of attest to that. I’m not trying to be judgmental. It’s just kind of my experience. It’s hard to know and I very well may be stereotyping (as my parents keep warning me) but I feel like more of a Middlebrook guy then a Mines guy. I know I can make good friends at both places, but this is just something that sticks in my head. I’ll shut up now and move on.

-The male-female ratio at this school is really, really high. It is at just about eighty percent male. Some students, although they may be exaggerating a little bit, say they go days without seeing a girl. You can’t go there with really any hope at all for a relationship. Relationships aside, I am just not excited about the virtual absence of feminine influence for four, young, formative years of my life. I am fine with graduating a bachelor. I just don’t want to set myself up for being a bachelor for my whole life. That would be lame.

-If I find that engineering is not what I want to do with my life (I am a little tentative about it just turning in to a crushingly boring office job), I am in big trouble. I would not be able to transfer into UMN on account of the cost.

-The students coming in have a much lower stats profile. Again, this is a good thing and a bad thing. In high school, however, I have noticed that many of the people whom I best get along with are strong, motivated students with very strong academic records. In some respects, I just don’t see students who are “like me” going to Mines, especially from my own high school. The fact that I am a “number one recruit” is baffling to me. Aren’t there more “super strong” students who are considering going to this school? That’s a question I am asking.

-Mines has limited diversity and perspectives. At Mines, I will be very limited in the scope of the people that I meet. While there will be different types of people there, I don’t think it is any secret that the prevailing demographic, by far, will be Midwestern white males. I won’t be exposed to as many new ideas and cultures, which are all a part of the real world.

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UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA TWIN CITIES- PROS

-The engineering programs here are quite elite, specifically the Chemical Engineering program, which is essentially the “premier” major at the college. I know that a lot of money is poured into the program. Students in the program seemed to have good things to say about the professors in the program when I visited. I know Mines has a solid recognition factor with employers, but Minnesota engineering is a pretty big deal.

-The school will offer me expansive opportunities academically. At Minnesota, I feel like it could be easier to get involved in engineering areas that appeal to me specifically, those being renewable energy, green materials, and sustainability. While Mines has some to offer in this area, I really believe Minnesota could provide me with a better avenue to a final career in this area. I am not pumped about engineering for an oil company. The money would be good but the purpose wouldn’t. If I am an engineer, I really pray that it is at least for something that I believe in.

-The U offers other expansive opportunities that I won’t find at Mines. Although I will likely stick with engineering, Minnesota provides great options for me if I want to make a change or get a minor in an area that will help me advance my career. The research facilities, if I can get access to them, are going to be way better than those at Mines.

-I will get to “see the world.” Minnesota will offer me an opportunity to meet all sorts of very motivated students from all different parts of the world. The demographic is much more dynamic, and there are actually females there. That is something I would appreciate.

-The Twin Cities are something new and exciting, and there are plenty of exciting things to do for when I do have the time (although it may be hardly any time at all), and those exciting things are accessible and attached to campus. The Campus is also pretty beautiful. It has a gorgeous mix of classic and modern architecture, picturesque landscapes, city skylines, etc. It’s just a pretty place, albeit pretty cold. The Mines campus is tiny, and, overall, not that pretty.

-The Honors program could be a good thing. It might turn out that the Honors program won’t really matter to me. But at least I can go in with relative confidence knowing that my dorm isn’t going to be full of hard-core partiers or all-night gamers. I also know that I will have access to special advising, for what it’s worth. There seem to be great resources for students to use associated with the program. And like I said, I think I will like the Honors residential community. I think it could be a great way for me to make some really cool friends in a tight-knit community. If this comes true, it would help to dispel my fear of being “lost in the shuffle” at a huge university.

UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA TWIN CITIES- CONS

-The school is very far away from home. It will be different and it will be a challenge to be completely separated from home. I am quite close with my family, and while I am excited to get away from home, I am certainly not one of those kids who cannot wait to move out. I love my parents and I love my siblings. I do, however, feel like I am growing up, and that I will be able to handle it. Still, I know there will be times when I will be especially homesick, and that could be very hard to deal with if I lack a good support group at Minnesota.

-The school costs a little bit more. I have a decent scholarship package going but Minnesota still isn’t a full ride. I certainly have the opportunity to graduate debt free. I just wouldn’t do so as comfortably, and I wouldn’t leave school with extra money on the side, as could very well be the case at School of Mines. Still, many kids would kill to have half my scholarship package.

-I will not have the same degree of individual attention. I do feel like I have it in my power to be a “go-getter” and get to know my professors and pave my own opportunities. Nevertheless, sitting in huge lecture halls could be a bit of a shock. I am not worried that I will not learn, but striving academically or “standing out” would take a little more effort and initiative. I don’t want to be a mediocre student. Don’t think I will be, but it is a bit of a fear for me. Though this will happen at both schools, at Minnesota I know that I will quickly find out that I no longer have the luxury of being “one of the smart kids.” I am ready for it, but it is a pretty scary thought that I could be struggling while others have no problem at all. I have some college coursework, but four AP classes and a college history course just don’t match up to what a large number of these students will have already accomplished upon setting foot on campus. On the other hand, surrounding yourself with the best and brightest can be a good idea too.

-This isn’t a huge con, but I’m not super excited about everything liberal in life, which I know many Minnesota students are. In some respects, I could be in a more conservative minority. I feel like I have a strong basis for what I believe in, so I think I will be ok. I just don’t want to be chastised for my relative conservatism. Not that I will go around preaching it, but it is still a small concern for me.

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In summary, at SDSMT, I think I could really appreciate the somewhat luxurious financial break, small class sizes, accessible professors, and conveniences of a smaller campus. At Minnesota, I think I could really appreciate the expansive opportunities, both academically and in the cities; the diversity, as it relates to a global perspective; and the academic focus of the honors program community. If I choose the South Dakota school, I will be little worried that I am “missing out” on what could be the experience of a lifetime at Minnesota in exchange for a straight-up STEM education. If I choose Minnesota, I will be a little worried that I will “feel like a number” and have a hard time forming strong relationships and making my own name in such a huge university.

My parents are excited about both schools, yet, understandably, they lean toward the conservative decision. They will still be very happy for me if I choose Minnesota. I already know the curriculum is going to be bone-crushingly difficult at both schools, so things are going to be stressful, and there are going to be some very low times. Ultimately, I want to get through my course load while further discovering myself and my purpose in life, having a great experience, opening my eyes to the world, making life-long friends, and having a little fun on the side.

I express a sincere thank you for any advice or insights you may have to offer.

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Minnesota is plenty conservative for you. There are tons of Catholics and other Christians and general conservatives who “don’t drink/smoke/do drugs” who will be starting at UMN this coming fall. I know this because my daughter will be going there, and I read the posts with her by the incoming freshmen on the UMN facebook page sometimes. Have you seen the beautiful Catholic churches in Minneapolis and St. Paul? You will find your people at UMN for sure.

Also, to find out exactly what size your classes will be, just log in to UMN and go to Class Search. You can search for classes in your planned major or minor and see exactly how many people will be in the classes. For example, I just searched for Civil, Environmental, and Geo-Engineering Courses (CEGE), and most of the classes were capped at 20 students or up to 30. Only one class had more than 50 students and it had 120 students. I don’t think you’ll be stuck in large lecture halls as much as you fear. If your dream were to work for an oil company, I’d say go to SDSMT, but since that is not your goal and you want flexibility in majors, more variety of students, more females, and more adventure - go to UMN!! You will love it!

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Well, you’ve written quite a bit about each school. Kudos for taking the time to dig deep into the assets and [relative] flaws of each university. Though, as a fan of Mines, I think you exaggerated the “cons” just a bit.

Mines is not as monolithic as you may believe, culturally. There are students from various states whom are enrolled at mines. Last year’s best athlete and All-American at Mines is a Virginian. Mines does relatively well in attracting students from Washington and California also. The Mines Chapter of the National Society of Black Engineers is quite active; and there is significant group of international students at Mines. Now about the female student population; well, like most STEM schools, they are outnumbered. But at present the female ratio at SDSM&T is approximately 27%, not 20%. President Wilson is going to bring more female enrollees, no doubt about it. My point is, you can find a diverse group of friends at Mines if you seek them out. It’s a friendly place.

You’re right about Mines being a small pond, but you will be surrounded by lots of very smart kids, including upperclassmen and upperclasswomen who have done internships and co-ops at places like NASA, Intel, Boeing, Cargill, 3M and other significant companies.

I do like U Minnesota also, and it is recognized as an excellent STEM university; a leader in ChE. ChE is a hard major everywhere and the ChE department at Mines is top notch. What it comes down to is that UM is an urban campus that a lot of people love, and mines is a small town place that has it own charms.

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By the way, Mines pulls in substantial research dollars and there are critical projects funded by the feds and corporations going on all the time. Mines doesn’t get as much grant money as a powerhouse like U of Washington, but there is prominent research going on constantly at Mines.

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@mommyrocks Thank you for the input. I’m really not too worried about the liberal v. conservative issue, but I do know that I will be stepping into a new environment. I am thinking that larger class sizes will probably be more of an issue for the “general” CSE classes like Chem, Physics, Calc, DiffEQ, etc. I also CEGE classes might be a little smaller than say, ChemE classes, for example. I did sit in on a Mass Transfer and Separation Processes class (ChemE) at Minnesota this spring semester. It definitely wasn’t twenty students. Probably something closer to forty. Still, students sitting upfront were interacting with the professor on occasion, which was a bit comforting to see. Students I’ve talked to haven’t made the big class sizes sound like all that much of a detriment. I guess they might just create a little more work for the student.

@LakeWashington It is nice that you have some things to say about Mines. (I have done a little research on this forum, and you seem to be one of the few saying anything knowledgeable about the school.) I would agree with you that I have exaggerated some of the cons, but, as I’m sure we can both agree, the campuses have very different feels, and that fact is easily attested to after one makes visits to both of them.

Do you have any position on how career and research opportunities in green energy, green materials, sustainability, etc. might differ based on which school I choose? I tend to think Minnesota would have the advantage. Like I said, I am a little tentative about engineering just for the fact that I fear I could get stuck in a bureaucratic office job working about something that is of little meaning to me. And that’s another thing I mentioned. If I choose Mines, I have made a virtual commitment to engineering. That’s a little bit scary for me. But anyways, let me know what you think about opportunities in “green” fields. Thanks.

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It’s true that Engineering is the order of the day at Mines, as opposed to a more comprehensive university. If you chose Mines and Engineering didn’t work out, you would be confined to a science major or would need to transfer to a place such as S. Dakota State University, for example, to take advantage of other academic programs like liberal arts or business. Keep in mind, however, that financial firms LOVE to hire engineering majors. All that math adds up…no pun intended.

Yes, green energy is a research subject at Mines. I think Professor Shende in ChE has an ongoing green/sustainability project. There must be others. Now like I said, UM is a powerhouse in ChE and Materials Engineering, but there is a lot going on at Mines. There’s an article on the student-created sustainable energy company Farnsworth Downs in the current edition of the SDSM&T news, for example. I have never met Conrad Farnsworth, and the photograph that accompanies the article does make him look stereotypically nerdy (the bow tie and horn-rim eyeglasses, but I gather he’s having a ball at mines and clearly he’s a very sharp kid. Wherever you are, you have got to find your niche.

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It’s great to see how much time and effort you’ve placed into this situation. It shows that you’re serious.

I don’t know the cost differential between Mines or Minnesota, but if it’s not a whole lot (less than 10K) and your parents are okay with you going there and possibly having to take out small PLUS loans or pulling funds from somewhere, go with Minnesota.

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@TheDidactic Thanks for the response. A couple questions: Are you talking a difference of 10k/year or 10k over the entirety of the four years? I am thinking Minnesota will end up costing me 5-7k year of my own personal money if things go as planned. With savings and summer earnings, I would still very much have the opportunity to graduate debt-free, though. Secondly, what is your basis for recommending Minnesota?

Thanks.

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Sorry for the lack of clarification. I mean <=10K a year.

I think Minnesota is a good school with a more diverse student body where you can discover yourself and meet a variety of people. You won’t just be meeting STEM/engineering students. You’ll obviously be wrapped up in your studies but say you do meet a girl, she could be a psych major or an English major–the summarized gist behind my point is that you will be exposed to a broader variety of students. :stuck_out_tongue:

You’ll also be in a city with plenty of opportunities to find internships, jobs, or just have fun socially. Most importantly the cost isn’t that much higher and you can receive a solid education.

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First of all, sorry you have ruled out IIT but I perfectly understand your constraints. It sounds to me like you have two more or less equal options and you have to decide based on what is more important for you. At UMN you will have a more diverse student body and a better M/F ratio overall. While the class sizes are larger at the upper division, engineering classes are still not as large as the first year courses. You will definitely be challenged there. Plus if you want a more nerdy atmosphere, you can probably find that there too. Personally, I would choose UMN but you should rest assured that you can get an excellent education at either school.

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A few responses. Again, I really appreciate the input thus far.

@LakeWashington Yes, South Dakota State would likely be my only option if Mines didn’t work out for me. And don’t tell certain people I said this, but South Dakota State, in my eyes, certainly isn’t an academic powerhouse. Granted, strong students do go there and do very well, but all it takes to get in is an 18 ACT and a pulse.

Conrad looks way smarter than me, haha. He’s done some incredible stuff and was definitely cut out for engineering, no questions asked. I was spending some time on his blog and found this post about how he chose Mines: http://www.nuclearfarnsworth.com/its-not-where-you-go-its-what-you-do-where-you-are/

Also, watch this video if you want. It does a fairly good job representing some of the things I like and don’t like about SDSMT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXtRqghhF7Q

@TheDidactic Thanks for the clarification and further information.

@xraymancs Yeah, I am sorry that I ruled out IIT, but I appreciate your understanding. I definitely could have seen myself there. It was a middle ground for me, in terms of the people there and the size, but not in terms of distance. I enjoyed my time on campus over scholarship weekend. And even if I’m not going to accept it, the Camras scholarship offer is a big confidence boost. Also, what would be your reasoning, personally, for leaning toward UMN?

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The reason I said that was primarily because of your remarks about wanting a more heterogeneous population to be a part of. Tech schools are sometimes limited in that respect.

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Any further input?

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Any further input?

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Engineering is like a long distance marathon; you need commitment & stamina plus smartness. College courses in engineering are way tougher than HS. The UG engineering coursework provides less leeway to explore other interests. If at the end of freshmen year you feel an urge to diversify, you will be working against another constraint - usually the scholarships are paid over only 4 years. Any academic exploration means that you may extend your 4 year duration by a semester or two, depending on the extra courses you may wish to take. SDSM is a great school if you are fully committed to engineering. Smaller classes are a great attraction to learning. If you are not fully sure of engineering, UMInn, especially its ChemE is an awesome program.
College, especially the freshmen year, will challenge your comfort zone.That is how one grows.
In a globalized world UMinn will provide you both the comfort of a home state atmosphere, yet provide you the support to spread your wings as you progress through the curriculum and explore global opportunities.
Good luck in making your decision.

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I would go with UMN, since you’ll graduate debt free from there; you’ll be in Honors, which will make the whole university less anonymous; thanks to Honors you’ll have more serious students to live with and with whom you’ll take classes, and those classes will be small and interactive. I also think that sustainability/biotech/green energy is stronger at UMN than at SDSM. Being on a college campus in a big city for the first time will be a little bit scary at first, but quickly mind-expanding and exhilarating. In addition, the Twin Cities are home to more Fortune 500 companies than anywhere else in the Midwest (save for Chicago I think!) so you’d have lots of internship opportunities.