<p>My S is most interested in attending a mid-size school but so far has been accepted to an excellent large university and an excellent small LAC. These were his two safe schools...he has gotten into the honors programs at both. If he doesn't get into his top choices, I have no idea how he will choose between these completely disparate schools. 25,000 undergrads vs. 3,000--college town vs. rural, possibility of business school vs. true liberal arts education in a very intimate, personal environment. He sees pros and cons in both, and neither is exactly what he wants. Any hints on what is most important to consider? </p>
<p>Well, he probably won't have to face this choice, since these are his two safeties and he presumably has some matches he's waiting to hear from and perhaps a reach(?)</p>
<p>What were the features that drew him to apply to each of these schools? You've outlined the differences, but I wouldn't want to advise on what's most important without hearing what drew him to each.</p>
<p>If he "just can't decide" and these remain his only two options, I would have him go on an overnight visit to each - attend classes, do as many things as possible (see the thread on College Visits: what to look for) - that should break the impasses.</p>
<p>" . . . what is most important to consider?" The particular school. Nobody here can make a choice simply between large U and LAC as "generic" categories, especially when the cases at issue can be evaluated on the basis of so many specific variables that your son may care about -- programs, location, atmosphere, etc. Which characteristics are most important to him and how do the schools match up on those preferences?</p>
<p>I understand...I wasn't asking for a choice...just thought some of you who have kids already at school might comment on their experiences. I am concerned that the small school might be too isolated and that there would be a lot less to do outside of class. On the plus side, I think the academic experience might be superior because of the small size. I know it's a generic question, but how do your S's and D's feel about the atmosphere, social life etc. of a small school?</p>
<p>My S will definitely visit both again if it comes to that decision. Thanks!</p>
<p>To address your concern about "less to do outside of class"--My sense is that LAC communities may actually be a simpler place for kids to get connected to activities and comfortable social groups than bigger schools. In part it is because of the scale and less anonymity. There is also often a lot of focus on residence life and connectedness to the faculty and local community. My son is a high school senior, so I am basing this on my experience as a teacher and having been a student in both LAC and university settings plus the experience of parent colleagues whose kids are freshmen this year. From my observation the kids who went to big schools wrestled more and longer with feeling settled in, engaged in activities, and comfortable with new friends. Of course, some kids will be natural socializers whereever they are and then the differential doesn't matter as much. If your son is concerned about the social life/activities, the LAC's website may have some information/blogs/ or other links to get a feel for how kids are engaged outside of class. One of the things that impressed my son when he did a campus visit where he is headed, was that while students studied, they also seemed to be relaxed and have a lot of fun on many things unrelated to academics.</p>
<p>Bridie, I went to very large university and my son now goes to a small, rural LAC. I can tell you without doubt that kids can be healthy, wealthy and wise (and happy) at either one; however, the experience is radically different. The sense of community at a LAC is stronger, especially if its rural location doesn't offer any other diversions. The instructors are usually full PhD's (or at least at the top of their discipline) and they are focused on teaching instead of writing or research (although they certain do write and research). They are accessible and personal. There are few TA's. </p>
<p>Because the surrounding area doesn't offer entertainment, rural colleges go out of their way to fill up their students' calendars with choices activities. You know how they always tell you during campus tours "We're never bored, there's just so much to do!"? Well, it appears to be true.</p>
<p>My son, who has lived in cities all his life, was worried about the rural aspect of his college, but now he wouldn't trade. He loves the natural beauty and the opportunities for outdoorsy activities. He was also concerned that the college might be too small, but again, he's really thrived in the the close knit, friendly campus community. And when he needed recommendations for summer internships, he had the choice of several professors who really know him.</p>
<p>Just out of interest, what is the profile of your son's top choice, University or LAC?</p>
<p>Momrath --Thank you for your response. His top choices are mid-size universities (6-12,000). It sounds like your son is really thriving at his school and, given my son's personality, I think he would too. For some reason it seems our hs doesn't send that many kids to LACs--the kids are mostly drawn to bigger schools.</p>
<p>I agree with others who have said both have a lot to offer and can be a wonderful choice. I can add my perspective--I chose a small liberal arts school (less than 1000 students). It was smaller than my high school and I did wonder about getting bored and not having enough to do. My backup plan if that happened was to go abroad my junior year, or do an exchange program that would put me on another campus.</p>
<p>Well, I was accepted to an abroad program but actually ended up not going. There were a variety of reasons, but one was that I had a lot going on extracurricularly and I was unwilling to leave all that stuff behind! And I can tell you I graduated thinking I could happily have stayed another year taking classes, trying things out. It doesn't matter whether the school offers 200 courses or 2000; you'll never get through all of them.</p>
<p>My D has found no shortage of things to do at Reed, which only has around 1500 students. In fact, the smallness has been a HUGE advantage for her, since it's allowed people to get to know her. Since she's reserved, this has meant she's invited to join in on things and doesn't need to put herself forward as much.</p>
<p>Addition: it's also true that Reed is in Portland, which offers a great deal to do in the city itself. If the campus were more remote, that could be a problem.</p>
<p>Hubby and I attended an LAC of 1800 students in a small town. I don't ever remember being bored. The other thing that happens is that students end up experiencing new things because they want to support their friends. For example, while I had never been to a dance performance before college, I ended up attending several in college because a good friend of mine was in dance and asked me to come. Hubby and I were in college choir and people who never really experienced choral music would come to our concerts because we were in them. I went to sporting like volleyball and softball to watch my friends play, and saw lots of plays I probably wouldn't have otherwise attended. Also, at a smaller school, it is much easier to get involved in activities because there is not that much competition. </p>
<p>My friend in dance, a male, had never danced in high school, but took a class at the college. The instructor encouraged him to audition for the dance group. He started performing and fell in love with it. He eventually went on and got an MFA in dance and danced professionally for a number of years. Had he gone to a large school, I doubt he would have ever had the opportunity to really develop in this way as the comptetion would have been too great. Neither I nor my husband ever had any regrets about attending a small school.</p>
<p>My DD#1, a junior, currently attends a large state uni with about 27,000 students and DS#1, a freshman, attends a rural LAC of about 2500. Both have similar personalities but son is probably a little more outgoing at first but she catches up quickly. So both are social and like their outside ECs very much. </p>
<p>I personally thought the uni for DD was going to be too big and the LAC for son was to remote and too small. But hey, what did I know. They are both very happy at their respective choices and are glad they didn't listen to me!!</p>
<p>DD is also in the honors program and her major is not small but as you advance in years it does become smaller and smaller. She has had no TAs for any of her classes including O-Chem and all her profs are very available whenever she needs them and she commutes. She is involved with 4 seperate club/organizations and has leadership positions in most. She ends up spending most of her days and some evenings on campus. Her particular major has a club room on campus with sofas, tvs, music, kitchen and napping areas. So her circle of friends naturally stemmed out from her major. And as that she is pre-vet they also have a close relationship with the vet students since they share many of the same professors. Vet school is on the same campus. It makes for excellent opportunities for research, internships and classes directly from the vet school. If she was attending the LAC my son was attending or a similar one, she would not have these options.</p>
<p>And that is what she took into consideration when she chose schools. She knew she was pre-vet and knew the substantial animal work hours (400+, and it must varied and with large animals) under a prof or vet is a pre-requisite to APPLYING to our in-state vet school.</p>
<p>My son chose his LAC for reasons specific to him. He is a physics major but wanted to get away from the engineering aspect, which he had done 3 summer programs in previously. He thought maybe to double major in a bioscience and is thinking of med school after undergrad. He wanted classes where he could interact with his profs on a daily basis and they would be accessible to him outside the classroom, and for possible research. He also continued to play football but he didn't want it to run his life as it would have had he gone to his accepted D1 schools where he was recruited for football, not physics! At the LAC they wanted him for his academics, he didn't tell them he played football until AFTER he was accepted. Not only is he loving football again but now he is on the rugby team and is really enjoying himself. He joined a frat and seems to be having the time of his life. He has an on-campus job in the pres. office and knows almost everyone on campus. I never thought he would be happy in such a small environment. His previous high school had 4800+ students when we moved mid-senior year. But 2500 seems to be a great number for him. He had been accepted to much, much bigger schools with the similar aid packages (some were less) so money was somewhat of issue, but the school he is at made sure it was NO ISSUE for him.</p>
<p>So based on my kiddos current situations I would really examine what it is your son needs and wants. My son knew he did not want to sit in a lecture hall with 700 other pre-med students. My DD knew she had to have animal experience at the research level, and a lot of it. So as they figured out what they needed and eventually what they wanted, the decisions ended up not being difficult at all.</p>
<p>Momrath and I have a few things in common. I attended a huge urban university (BU), and our kids now attend the same small, rural LAC. I very much agree with her about the community thing. While I feel a deep and abiding love for the city of Boston, where I spent way too much time exploring and having fun when I should have been studying, I feel absolutely no attachment to the school itself, and find myself a little envious of friends for whom their alma mater seems to have such meaning. My Sophomore daughter is already showing signs of developing this attachment with her school. But as Kat points out above, this is highly personal. I got a good education at BU, considering what I put into it, and obviously many people excell there. But I can't help but wonder if I wouldn't have gotten much more out of college had I instead been immersed in the old, traditional LAC milieu.</p>
<p>thank you all for your thoughtful answers. My husband and I also attended our large state university and were both so taken by the atmosphere at the small LAC, where we saw professors sitting outside with their classes (of 10-15 students) really talking to them. That seems very appealing. I recall taking my kids to see the university we attended and my daughter asked if she could "meet one of my professors" and there wasn't even one I could remember having had a personal relationship with! My son really likes the one-on-one with teachers (those classes where he has relationships with his teachers are consistently his favorite, regardless of the subject matter). On the other hand, he would love the rah-rah atmosphere of a big football game etc. I guess the visits will help the most in making that ultimate decision.</p>
<p>A common problem related to large universities is the oversized intro classes that overflow auditoriums with students. The advantage to this is that a student has the opportunity to develop those skills that will get them in to see seriously busy people. You learn how to prepare for the meeting and to approach people early on before serious problems arise. Large schools also can offer a large pool of people who might have the same interests as yours. You might find seven other people who like chess, rugby, Hawaiian slack key guitar and silent films. Smaller schools might not have anyone who fits that description.</p>
<p>Small schools usually offer easy prof access and are designed around some "type" of personality. This can help shy kids feel comfortable. </p>
<p>Each school has its strengths and challenges. Students needto talk with other students who are at those schools, visits are okay, web chats are valuable too. Good luck.</p>
<p>"so taken by the atmosphere at the small LAC, where we saw professors sitting outside with their classes (of 10-15 students) really talking to them. "</p>
<p>Footnote to Mr. B: while Smith is on the large side for an LAC (2650 or so...one of its appeals, imo), there seems to be every conceivable interest expressed.</p>
<p>Some day remind me to tell you about Seamus the Study Lobster.</p>
<p>My S attended two high schools with 600 students. He was a popular student at both but he disliked the gossipy, homogeneous, almost incestuous social atmosphere of those small environments. He wouldn't consider a college with fewer than 5000 students.</p>
<p>He loves being at a big university in a big city--despite a couple of adminstrative issues. He loves two of the four professors he has. He loves the 500 kid classes because he doesn't like to talk before noon. He says the professors who teach those classes are phenomenal speakers. All in all, he loves the independence.</p>
<p>He was the kind of boy who avoided teacher-student relationships in high school but he's been to see a number of his professors at uni, some on a regular basis. He's made tons of friends from all over the world, girls and guys. He was recruited to play on a senior touch football team and loved it.</p>
<p>Last weekend he took the train to see high school friends in another city. On Valentines, he took his GF to a fancy dinner in a restaurant at the top of a skyskraper overlooking the city. </p>
<p>After these stories, I can't picture him at a small LAC in a rural setting, so I suppose his instincts were spot on. </p>
<p>Once all the acceptances are in, maybe your S will be drawn to one of the schools.</p>
<p>Well I can say that at a small liberal arts college the chances of a lot of people knowing you are greater. Does your son like that? Even if he does not, trust me he'll be known around campus at a SLAC and chances are a lot of people will know of some things he has done while on campus. You'll see the same faces over and over again. Chances are the campus will be in some remote area far from a city or at least not walking distance from one. A car will be a factor. The education and personal attention might be better at a SLAC. The contacts and connections might be better at a SLAC. The resources might be a drawback and lack of diversity in lots of things will also be a drawback. Bigger Universities have more resources, more students, more diversity in student body, ideas, cultures, ethnicity, geography, etc. No one will know him as much in a bigger university.</p>