anyone has taken biochemistry class at Vandy? is it hard? any information or advice is much appreciated
I have. To be honest, I thought it was the hardest class I have ever taken by far. I’ve been through gen chem I/II, bio I/II, physics I/II, and it was harder then all of them. The sheer amount of information you have to know, combined with the way you have to know it (being able to make inferences that are not directly stated about how one thing might affect another) make for a real challenge. I was still able to get a good grade and I don’t know what the grade distribution was at the end, so I might be exaggerating the difficulty, or I might not. All I know is that studying for the final about near killed me.
However, it is also the best science class that I have taken at Vanderbilt, in that I think I learned the most. I took it with Brame/Jackson, and they were both excellent. It also helped me mesh all of the ideas I learned in the other pre reqs, like how chem/orgo/bio/physics concepts come together.
fdgifg, thanks so much for your information. I am also going to take it with Brame/Jackson. I am pre-med and really would like to get A. is it possible to get A? any tips for studying?
Getting an A is definitely possible. I managed to squeak by with an A, I don’t know how though. Like I said, I don’t know the grade distribution so there might have been a ton of A’s given out, but it certainly didn’t feel like an easy class. To give you an idea, the class was mostly seniors and juniors who were already done with all of their pre reqs, and some gunner sophomores. Basically, everyone had already been weeded out unlike what you see in the pre-reqs, so everyone knows what they are doing/how to study. The first test average was a 67, second was a 70, and third was an 80.
Honestly the only tip is to really pour time into studying. You get a huge amount of info in lecture and you are expected to know it perfectly, backwards and forwards. The only other tip I have is to kind of ignore reading the book, especially for Brame. You can read it if you like getting all of the extra details for Jackson, but all the test questions are drawn from lecture notes. Also make sure to take good lecture notes.
fdgifg, thanks so much. I need a A to get a good chance to apply for med school. Are you pre-med? have you taken MCAT yet? much appreciated your advice
It’s harder than orgo? Is it conceptually harder or is it harder to do well because of how the class is curved (like bio/orgo from what I have heard)?
@pxu666 : Do you actually need an A because you don’t have A’s in other things or do you feel you just need to appear perfect for the med. schools because the latter isn’t true. Also, I can tell you what I was told about the new MCAT (my friend told me about it). He (okay actually 2 who just took it) said that the stand-alone questions in biochemistry were memorization/detail oriented, but passages in biology were mostly on molecular cell biology. You really needed to know how to see and analyze phenomenon as presented in data tables and graphs (taken from the literature). This ultimately means that “knowing” things is less useful than on the old. The two I talked to retook it and said that the passages on the old one could be easily assisted by just knowing a certain content area really well and that, even within a passage based series of questions, there were questions (as in more than one) that essentially could stand alone (as in you need not understand the passage). However, this time, the passage and the figures are pretty much important for all the questions. They said the physical sciences was more conceptual (not that hard apparently) and was re-centered around biology oriented themes. They said the new section (with psyche and soc) was very memorization of concepts/terms intensive. It seems as if a different strategy is needed to ace some sections versus others.
If you could find a science (particularly one that is genetics, cell biol, or biochem) class there where the teacher focuses more on data analysis and graphs, it apparently really helps. Maybe find one where the teacher stresses primary literature. I heard Vandy’s biol dept. has some upperlevel seminars that do that and a friend told me that the genetics instructors are good at developing that sort of thinking about science. Maybe consider taking such a class (or 2) before the MCAT. They may be an adjustment if you’ve only taken neuroscience or bio classes that were detail oriented, but apparently it is worth it. It apparently makes the preparation easier and more likely to pay off than if you take only instructors that emphasize details and then you must use an MCAT book or take a class to both refresh the material AND train yourself to basically interpret experimental data from primary literature sources. They said that the classes that they took that de-emphasized details vs. experimental underpinnings and data interpretation helped A LOT on the new MCAT vs. the old which makes sense because that was kind of the goal of the new MCAT.
@bernie12 If you do decently well in all of your pre-med requirement courses (ie A->B+), can you assume you can do reasonably well on the MCAT? Also is there a need for calc on the new MCAT?
@Suffer No, there is no calc. on it. That’s the PCAT. Pre-pharm students have to consider issues such as elimination rate of drugs/xenobiotics which requires a mixture of basic integration and differentiation. And no, not necessarily. One of the retakes had a 3.85 (and his science GPA not much different). However, as I was mentioning, the new MCAT seems like a slightly new ballgame. The new MCAT played into the hands of the retakes (who had taken more “inquiry/problem/case based” courses) whereas the old one did not as much. Were the classes/instructors you did well in other than chemistry and physics more memorization/detail oriented or did they involve lots of data analysis and interpretation of figures/problem solving (and by problem solving, I mean more than just plugging numbers directly into equations or doing the exact same problem types on tests as you did in class)? Be honest.
A good GPA indicates a good content foundation (at some point in time because people often don’t retain info. from detail oriented courses as well) but sometimes the problem solving and thinking on the feet element has to be developed further (through lots of practice and likely an MCAT prep class), especially in biology where many students did indeed take a large chunk of “know these details in and out” courses. Such a biology class will indeed be rigorous but exams will ask questions like: “Describe this very specific, long-winded scenario from class in great detail” or “You perturbed this very specific system by doing the following, what happens? Describe in words” IE, little to no open-endedness or ambiguity. You either know it or you don’t. The questions are asking you to recall very specific details and then maybe explain what happens if something changes (which actually reduces to: “what does this specific element do that is so special?”). Things like data analysis and graph based questions are much more open to interpretation and take more guess-work/ability to recognize various concepts in a context or format not necessarily emphasized in class. The MCAT requires the types of skills needed to be successful on those types of questions. If you did well in classes like that or enjoyed (or at least learned from) ones that made you read primary literature, then you’ll have an edge for sure. Also, if you do research and do it seriously (as in not basically reduced to a technician, but engage with your project in ways that require you to constantly read), that also helps according to them. Basically, if you’ve taken instructors that had a decent chunk of the exams dedicated to more difficult curveball questions that can’t easily be answered using your lecture note or book knowledge, you should be fine. Test seems hardly “know it or not from the study materials” and more “improvise based on what is put before me and find some way to connect foundational concepts to what is being presented”.
@bernie12 I’ve had questions on my bio exams that was something like here’s the basic info can you use that to answer the question (but there were also some “can you remember this from the notes” type questions). Did you go to Vanderbilt, and if you did, how did you feel about the bio course?
Why did you say classes other than chemistry and physics? Do you feel that most college courses of chem and physics adequately prepare you for the MCAT?
Also, I did some graph analysis/primary literature reading in my sociology course as part of the term paper. I’ve also read some science research papers in my FYWS and in my research internship (and a little for bio lab) but I haven’t had to do it in my actual science courses (the ones that fulfill the pre-med requirements) so far
@Suffer No, I didn’t go there (I went to Emory). I just kind of research this stuff because I am into science education and teaching. I like seeing what various schools are doing in the life sciences, physics, and chemistry, especially with lower division and intermediate courses. Science education now-a-days is “under fire” so is changing at a lot of schools. It is always cool to see how instructors at different schools teach the “same level” course.
I singled out chemistry and physics because they usually emphasize problem solving skills, though gen. chem at most schools can use serious improvement (often too much plug and chug and too little application and conceptual questions outside of multiple choice and fill-in the blank type of prompts), and so can ochem. They tend to emphasize more problem solving than the typical biology course even when done “not so well”. As for biology, I’ve seen many of Vandy’s gen. bio section material and thought Singleton was the best in terms of making students think beyond the notes/book, but students seem not to like him (maybe he isn’t that good or something? I don’t know). The others seem very stereotypical and detail oriented with close-ended essay questions (they were kind of hard and you had to know hell-a-details) and even fill in the blank with specific words and things like that (it is a problem at many schools. Emory, for example, still has one gen. biology instructor that still gives multiple choice only exams…Fortunately you guys cannot claim that, but in general, outside of that, our biology was taught a lot different). But you can confirm your own experience. I mean, what did you think and who did you have? To me, the content was challenging but the level of thought asked for didn’t seem that good for anyone outside of Singleton.
I saw some materials and exams from the genetics course and it was really good, up there with some of the better biology classes I took! And according to syllabi, the seminar classes and biochemistry 2 (from what I remember, it required students to present research articles at some point in the class despite it otherwise going by the textbook) when offered, offer more opportunities to read literature and the like. But yeah, if you don’t read a lot for just “fun”, then classes that heavily emphasize reading the literature (maybe ones without a required textbook) and data analysis really help apparently. Again, it is mostly passages so reading will improve your ability to read them quickly and analyze their content as well. It is also good that you have done that in a sociology course (as that is on the new MCAT). However, if you can, find at least one biology or chemistry instructor that is more problem set/case oriented and tends to write passage like questions on p-sets and exams, it will sort of prime you for MCAT prompts. It will seem annoying at first (if you haven’t had an instructor write questions like that before), but you will thank your instructor in the end. It seemed the genetics course does this and I think some of the exams were take home (at least that is what it said-maybe it was the snow days) offering students an opportunity to tackle higher level problems without the time pressure.
$bernie, I need A in biochemistry, because I happened to get a B* in orgo I also started preparation for MCAT. I have been doing some research in PI lab as well as summer intern in industry, hopefully it will help with my application as well as MCAT. thanks for your information and insight.
Meh…if that is the only B you have, unless you got B flats both semesters and are not a science major (and thus cannot boost your science GPA using other science courses in your major), then I wouldn’t worry about ultra perfection. But since usually biochem classes are detail oriented and less problem solving oriented (except the module on enzyme and protein kinetics or reaction thermodynamics), what you put in is usually what you get out. If you get the content and see some connections, then you’ll probably do well. At most schools it is more like a biology course than a chemistry course especially when the course is combined (as in, there is not a different offering in chem and biology). It is one of the classes of Vandy I haven’t had a chance to see so I can’t comment specifically, but if it follows the norm, it will be a challenge because of the volume of content (as opposed to intensity like some ochem classes), but if you keep up, you’ll be fine.