Bioengineering as Premed

<p>Haven't read all the posts, BUT, I think that sometimes engineers are cut a little slack (a little, not a lot) in med school admissions, re GPA. An engineer who made a C in basic biology probably would not fare well, or a C in organic chemistry for example. But I have been told by some involved in med school admissions, that the engineering GPAs might be a little lower overall than, say the bio majors GPAs.
Much as we discuss with elite colleges, med school admissions committees look for non-science majors in order to build a class of people with varying interests who can become excited about a wide range of specialties, and connect with a diverse population of patients. A caveat for all the pre-meds out there - the philosophy or history major has to have a top notch science GPA, however, and it is a good idea to take a few courses beyond the bare minimum - not just for admissions, but for survival after you get there.</p>

<p>In my med school class, 100% of the applying music majors had been admitted - 1 of 1 - and we were glad to have him when we organized the "End of Basic Science" roast and talent show and needed a band.</p>

<p>My son is finishing a top BME program this year. He thought he probably wanted to be an MD when he started, but was into research which is why he chose the major. Through classes, profs, internships and friends, he has learned of the many amazing things one can do with the degree. He has come to believe that his efforts can help many more people if he does research than if he sees 15 patients /day. He is excited beyond words about what's going on at biotech companies and stem cell research in specific.</p>

<p>Bottom line, these kids mostly don't even know the options when applying to college. Help them be in a position to be able to change their minds.</p>

<p>His friends who wanted med school had no problem getting in, it's going to be important to have MDs with BME background.</p>

<p>I've found this discussion very interesting: I was a sociology major and I am a current medical student. </p>

<p>I would echo what was said earlier that if you are a true math/science whiz then medicine is likely not for you - unless you are looking towards an MD/Phd. The reason I say this is because, I - along with my friends that I've discussed this with - view science as a means to an end. Yes, we need to understand it, and it's a necessary background, but just knowing the science isn't going to make us good doctors - that requires the warm/fuzzy things as well as experience. I recently completed a 3 week rural primary care block that my school requires, and my preceptor there (a surgeon) emphasized that it's not enough to know the science, but to understand it in a way that allows it to be useful. Further, the science taught in medical school during the first year is not really that in depth. Most popular pre-med science majors give one far more advanced coursework than they will receive in medical school on the subjects. If you are really fascinated by anatomy, then I'm pretty sure that the 1 semester equivalent class we had (10 week core with 4 hours of scheduled classroom/lab time per day) would not be enough to really satisfy you. Nor would the three weeks of a core on cardiac physiology really sate one who is hoping to do cardiac research. Most medical students will tell you that the difficulty of medical school isn't in the depth of the material but in the speed at which it is covered. </p>

<p>This is not meant to reflect poorly on doctors however, b/c you must remember that I have between 6-10 years left of training. The apprenticeship-like nature of medical training after the first two years is really what creates the knowledge base to be a sucessful doctor. Your cardiologist has had three years of an internal medicine residency to go through to deal with treating patients and the intersection of various symptoms, followed by a three year cardiology fellowship to deal only with the heart. By the end of that three years, they're going to know the heart and it's function forwards and back, but are they really going to solid on the functions of digestive enzymes? Probably not. The division of labor in medicine means that doctors dont' have to have but a basic understanding of physiology outside of problems they see every day. My internist preceptor I shadow during the school year, knows a ton about diabetes and hypertension b/c he deals with them on a daily basis. His knowledge on rare things is enough to only get him far enough to refer to the appropriate specialist. He'll then read up on that issue as he needs to for that patient's care.</p>

<p>Now the kicker of all this is that the science doesn't keep you from getting sued - the warm/fuzzy stuff does, and research has shown this. As a sociology major (which I chose b/c I have a genuine interest in it - not b/c it's an easy major), I have had many occasions in which I've recognized that I understand the pyschosocial barriers to patient care much better than my colleagues who were chemistry or other science majors. That knowledge and interest gives me a better knowledge base on how to uncover and address those issues when working with patients. </p>

<p>That's the unique thing about medicine and one of the lures for me was that combination of science and people. You can be the smartest, most knowledgeable person with a complete and total understanding of the human body, but that doesnt' make you a good or even competent doctor. I love working with people and getting to think in a scientific way on a daily basis, and it's that combination that makes medicine rewarding for me.</p>

<p>It should also be noted that medical school is not a weeding out phase of the profession. The weeding out occurrs entirely before med school matriculation...in undergrad with the stringent sequence of courses (1 year each of bio, chem, organic chem, physics), with the MCAT, and after that the admissions process. Once in medical school, they will do almost anything to keep you there. Whether it's retaking tests, retaking courses or even retaking an entire year, the money invested in training doctors is so great that most schools refuse to lose students simply b/c of academic performance. My class started out with 126 students last fall - 2 of whom who were retaking the first year over again. We had two students drop during the first semester - both of whom were asked to simply take a 1 year leave of absence and were invited back this fall. We ended up having a couple of students remediate classes during the summer, and 3 people from my class will be retaking the first year over. We have gained 2 people from the class above ours who will be retaking the second year over again.</p>

<p>As for choosing a major, the stats show that on the whole, the majors of matriculants are in almost the exact same ratio as majors of applicants (less than a %age point difference). I've done a lot of pre-med advising during my time as an undergrad, as a Kaplan MCAT teacher, and on this board. I've always told students that they should major in something they are interested in, something that gets them excited to learn, b/c that's really where they are going to get the most out of undergrad academically. By taking the pre-med requirements they are going to get all the science they need for medical school - and the medical schools have defined that curriculum. Choosing a major you hate, simply b/c of how you think it will appear to medical schools is a recipe for a lot of dissappointment. Happy people are more productive. With that, I've got friends still in undergrad who are majoring in guitar performance, pyschology, business, art history, and biochem - all b/c that's what really interests them. W/in my med school class, all those majors (with the exception of guitar performance) are present, as well as poli-sci, econ, various types of engineering, secondary education, biology, chemistry, History, women's studies, and photography.</p>

<p>Other than the fast paced environment, I fail to see connections between ED and securities traders. But I don't know that many securities traders...</p>

<p>Bigredmed: I'm not implying that only a math/science genius can be a good doc. But being extremely strong in those areas is very mportant. My comments about not looking for warm fuzzies from a doc is personal preference. I'll seek the genius because I don't need my hand held. Others might feel differently. </p>

<p>Re: chocie of major. If sociology inspires you, great. As long as you are choosing it because you are passionate about the major. Not for grade inflation.</p>

<p>An emergency doc must be completely unflappable and able to handle lots of stress. Fast paced all the way. I'd even call them adrenaline junkies. The same can be said for traders.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Engineers who are well trained are the most talented physicians. </p></li>
<li><p>Warm and fuzzy is becoming more rare each day because of a multiplicity of factors, including managed care, the complexity of medicine, and the economics of medicine. This is truly unfortunate. </p></li>
<li><p>There is no forgiveness, for performing less than stellar in the most rigorous
of undergraduate curricula.</p></li>
<li><p>There is no forgiveness, for performing less than stellar in the most rigorous
of undergraduate curricula.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>"hopkins and penn are great examples where BioEngineering students go on to great Med Schools"</p>

<p>The head of the BME program at Hopkins ,at an admitted BME student event, advised against using BME as a way to med school.Said the curriculum was so hard that if Med school was the ultimate aim chosing an easier undergrad major made more sense.</p>

<p>I'm actually in the BME program at Hopkins and I've heard basically the same advice from lots of people in engineering. If your only goal is to be a doctor, then an engineering undergrad track probably isnt the best option, simply because of how challenging it is. There are a lot of easier ways to get into med school and if you're not going to enjoy the engineering education, then there's no reason to go through it for the sole reason of getting into med school. On the other hand, if you actually enjoy the challenge of engineering and perhaps hope to mix engineering with medicine (with a MD/PhD or in a field of medicine where you could apply your engineering knowledge), then engineering is a good approach. Roughly a third of the Hopkins BME graduates go to med school after graduation (with another third going to grad school and the rest into industry - these are very rough figures). I entered the BME program thinking about going into grad school after graduating, but now I'm considering applying to MD/PhD programs.</p>