"Blurring the Line Between a College Application and a Slick Sales Pitch"

Parents Forum
1

<p>NY Times On Education article takes a close look at the "many trends in the admissions ordeal that are helping turn our children into so-many marketable boxes of cornflakes": </p>

<p>
[quote]
“Colleges have to accept some blame,” said Bruce Poch, Pomona College’s dean of admissions, because “the vocabulary of admissions officers has for years sometimes tended toward slickness and colleges put so much energy into marketing themselves that kids are just responding in kind.”...</p>

<p>“Wrapping a student in the wrong package is plain wrong, and the worst victim might be the student who knows that his or her application is not all that genuine,” said Ken Fox, a counselor at Ladue Horton Watkins High School in St. Louis. “The irony of branding is that the branded students should not look branded. That says quite a bit about the process itself.”</p>

<p>With pressures ballooning on frenzied adolescents, it increasingly makes sense that counselors, either paid or in-school, help them present themselves vividly, something adults find hard to do. “If branding is helping each student tell his or her story, then I practice it,” Mr. Fox said.</p>

<p>Colleges say they are getting wise to students who dress up a privileged background with a benevolent sheen. The shame is that in a world where students are compelled to game the system, probably more than a few genuinely good souls are thrown away along with the counterfeits. Meanwhile, children are being subjected to pressures they may not be ready for. After all, why should a teenager be penalized for wanting to spend the summer as a camp counselor?

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/education/28education.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/education/28education.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

2

<p>What a load of banal cr*p and platitudes!</p>

3

<p>From article: "After all, why should a teenager be penalized for wanting to spend the summer as a camp counselor ?"</p>

<p>ah... but the kid who is a Camp Counselor shows a tremendous amount of LEADERSHIP POTENTIAL / EXPERIENCE. (Marketing Buzz words ) :D</p>

4

<p>Really says something when the medium becomes the message - and judging by the few, perhaps jaded, responses to this article - is a prime example of just how blurry the lines are drawn when it comes to the concepts of marketing and branding in college admissions: "“Think not just what you’ve done, but why you’ve done what you’ve done,” Ms. Isiadinso told them. “What they care about is the passion, commitment and consistency.”" are now marketing buzz words in their own right that depending upon the context come across as empty, meaningless rhetoric. </p>

<p>The college admissions process demands students to write essays, fill out forms, and perhaps for the first time present themselves to the outside world and articulate their educational goals. Is this the same as college branding and marketing? Both, of course, must address that elusive "search for the authentic". Obviously, as in the work world, competitive and highly ambitious students want to be seen in the "best light" in order to promote themselves and, if possible, stand out from the crowd. Colleges equally depend on clear, effective, and clever institutional marketing to stand out from the crowd, get across who they are and what they stand for -or else everything from mission statements to website presentations and college fair pitches dangerously threaten to become just a string of indistinguishable platitudes.</p>

<p>I can't help but wonder if the reaction to this article is at all representative of a significant change of heart in response to Bruce Poch's well-received "Search for Authenticity", or just an indication that parents and students are getting snow-blind and this particular message needs new packaging to get the message across to seasoned veterans of past admissions cycles and newbies alike.</p>

<p>To pick out another quote from the article:

[quote]
Admission committees sifting through stacks of papers generated by the ease of common applications are left “snow-blind,” in the words of David Hawkins, director of public policy at the National Association for College Admission Counseling...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Guidance counselors and private coaches alike are walking that fine line between describing the authentic and air-brushing it for the most obvious of all reasons - in order to make students look good. There is really nothing new about this except perhaps the scale and scope of action beyond that list of "top twenty" "hottest schools".</p>

<p>For all of that, the NYT article seems to strike a false note because, when all is said and done, there is no clear indication that the college admissions process, branding, and even marketing is such a bad thing in and of itself. Making a 17 year-old kid sit down and reflect not just how they see themselves but how others see them is an incredible exercise and well worth doing right. I asked my S if he felt as if he were a marketable box of cornflakes - his answer: "Actually, I see myself more as Golden Grahams mixed with Oreos."</p>

<p>Admissions</a> Dean: What Colleges Really Want | Newsweek Kaplan College Guide | Newsweek.com</p>

5

<p>asteriskea, maybe the lack of responses should tell you something about the value of posting newspaper articles. Even if the articles are from the NY Times, most of what we find in newspapers is very superficial and written at about a 7th grade level. The articles are barely worth reading and not worth quoting.</p>

6

<p>edad - obviously, we differ on this point. Why bother posting articles from the NYTimes, Newsday, the WSJ, CNN, or the CSM for that matter? The presumed grade level and superficiality of the article is beside the point - or, then again, may be it is right to it since the NY Times competes with other news sources to create a brand identity, wants to stand out, and, if possible, increase circulation with the aim of acquiring a loyal readership. I know quite a number of highly educated people who even admit to being NY Times readers. I have to include my sister among them. Perhaps, they are misguided but they can be found reading the On Education section. All NY Times articles are not created equal and yes, some are dismal indeed. The pragmatic process that is behind college admissions is at work on many levels in society. Significantly, this type of article, and its timing, also reveals the direction in which those involved in certain sectors of education want to focus discussion. (The initials EC ring any bells?) Most of these articles do not pop up all of a sudden like wild mushrooms and neither do quotes by admissions folks like Bruce Poch. Some articles will hit a nerve and others widely miss the mark. This also can reveal important trends and the directin of national discussion. As for Joseph Berger, his City Room style is intentionally chatty and accessible. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/books/chapters/1st-chapter-the-world-in-a-city.html?ref=firstchapters%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/books/chapters/1st-chapter-the-world-in-a-city.html?ref=firstchapters&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>But if you had bothered to read more than the first few lines of my post I think that you would have picked all this up and gotten past the superficiality and gloss.</p>

<p><a href="http://individual.utoronto.ca/markfederman/article_mediumisthemessage.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://individual.utoronto.ca/markfederman/article_mediumisthemessage.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

7

<p>"Banal crap and platitudes"????</p>

<p>The marketing of students, spin, and packaging are CLEARLY major issues in the college application process. Doesn't matter where it appears, or how it's written. Truth is truth, and a problem is a problem. Oops, a platitude.</p>

8

<p>I would certainly agree that there are concerns about kids who structure their lives and activities with the hope of being accepted by very selective colleges. There are also concerns that some wealthy families can afford expensive consultants who help with the application process and often look at the process from a sales perspective. These are certainly real concerns worthy of discussion. I did not see any useful information or analysis in the quoted article. Instead the article seemed to be hung up on an analogy to product branding. That analogy seemed to be quite a stretch. We typically define branding to involve advertising or other marketing of a name, symbol or logo. That really does not seem to fit the college application process.</p>

<p>Rather than just dump newspaper quotes into this forum, it might be more valuable to actually open a discussion by presenting new information or asking questions to solicit input and discussion. Of course, that is just my opinion. It seems to me that the newspaper industry needs to change or face obsolesence. I would agree that the NY Times is much better than most and often contains in depth articles. This just isn't one of those.</p>

9

<p>Can ad coms really discern truth from packaging? reality from spin?</p>

<p>When my daughter began writing her college essays last year, her guidance counselors looked over her essays and said, DO NOT write about that. "Ad Coms are tired of reading about kids like you going to Africa." And one of the top LAC admissions deans even made a similar comment in Newsweek or some major magazine - specifically about essays about trips to Africa. And there was even one poster last year on CC who made several snide remarks about kids going to Africa to pad their resumes and brand themselves.</p>

<p>Fortunately, my daughter who had spent a significant amount of time over three summers - once in Honduras and twice in Africa - working with - yes, the proverbial "aids orphans" didn't listen to their advice. </p>

<p>This wasn't a case of "rich" parents (very middle class) preparing their child (beginning at age 13) for future college applications; it was the case of a child with a heart of gold, a passion for service and the willingness to sacrifice for something other than herself. (She worked for plane tickets, not for cell phones and cars.)</p>

<p>So it really galled me when people inferred, or outright said, that what she had done might be thrown out or viewed negatively by cynical ad coms. Fortunately, they were wrong. She had 100% acceptance and was offered four full-ride scholarships. </p>

<p>For crying out loud, let's let our kids do what they want to do. And, let them tell their story any way they want. Then let's pray that ad coms recognize it for what it is.</p>

10

<p>I don't know what constitutes a jaded comment.</p>

<p>Related to the above comment and one made in the article, my S actually worked as a camp counselor every summer for 6 years prior to the college application process. ( He started as a Counselor in Training.) The camp was down the road from our house. Never left the country. Didn't seem to hurt him.</p>

11

<p>Webbie: your daughter sounds very special. You're to be congratualted too.</p>

<p>As an interviewer for one of the HYP schools I can tell you that I HAVE come across kids whose wealthy parents paid for some service junket that they felt obliged to do to market themselves better. And the ones I've seen, it's pretty easy to see how deep or shallow the kid really was about "serving the poor".</p>

<p>I'd rather have a kid who spent 3 summers being the lifeguard at the community pool earning some petty cash than the kid who spent a week "building a schoolyard" in Mexico and spent half of that time on the beach only to rush home to get their convertible washed.</p>

<p>I'm over generalizing here, I know. But you see my drift?</p>

12

<p>Totally see your drift. I'm sure there are plenty of kids who are involved in community service activities and leadership positions just to pad their college resumes. I just find it scary that the rest of the kids have to worry about being perceived like this. </p>

<p>In my d's case, she spent a total of 12 weeks over three summers in these countries - it wasn't a one-week jaunt with her church group. She came back a changed person, and this was reflected in her continued efforts on behalf of those organizations with which she had volunteered. It translated into things like writing newspaper articles, fund raising, speaking to groups. This shows passion, sustained interest. And this is what I have to believe discerning ad coms use to tell the difference between those who go for their college resume and those who don't.</p>

<p>But, on the other hand, I'd like to believe that even kids who do community service, or go to places like Africa, for the "wrong" reasons are and can be ultimately changed by having gone or having been involved. And if the wrong reason gets them there initially, it can still be a good thing - and it might even make a good college essay. (Ah, but would they be believed, lol.)</p>

13

<p>"This shows passion, sustained interest. And this is what I have to believe discerning ad coms use to tell the difference between those who go for their college resume and those who don't."
Totally agree with the above statement.
Experienced College admissions officers can pick out students who have shown true passion pretty easily.</p>

14

<p>I doubt that most of the wealthy kids who participate in overseas service programs go for just one week. The standard format is a 4 week program with at least 2 weeks of home-stay. Some of those wealthy kids also do fundraising and the ones I've known come back as "changed," too.</p>

<p>I don't see anything wrong w/ going on these jaunts (not for Webbie's D or the others). But regardless of whether on goes for 1 summer or 3, most of the programs are, as T26E4 described them - - at most half service, half fun-in-the-sun. And they are always expensive, $4-6K, plus airfare and incidentals - - even with a modest offset from an ambitious teen's fundraising. </p>

<p>I don't see why colleges give value these high-priced overseas service experience more than a teen-tour. A one week trip w/ one's church is probably a more authenitic service experience.</p>

15

<p>I agree foolishpleasure, although I'm not familiar with these expensive 6-week programs that you are referring to. </p>

<p>As I said, I believe service can be a life-changing experience regardless of whether you volunteer down the street, or across the world; whether you go for one week or one month; whether your parents pay for the trip or you work to earn the money; whether you go to pad your resume or because you truly want to give some small piece of yourself for someone else.</p>

<p>I've simply stated the angst I felt last year over whether it would appear my child was trying to "brand" herself to adcoms or whether they would cynically believe she did this, or wrote about this in her essays, because she thought it was necessary/important for college admissions.</p>

16

<p>"This wasn't a case of "rich" parents (very middle class) preparing their child (beginning at age 13) for future college applications; it was the case of a child with a heart of gold, a passion for service and the willingness to sacrifice for something other than herself. (She worked for plane tickets, not for cell phones and cars.)"</p>

<p>Clearly, the advice was wrong that your D got about not writing about her community service trips. It was wrong because the people who gave advice seem to have assumed that your D was like the overwhelming majority of kids who take such trips: doing the trips on on a rich Daddy's bucks to impress colleges.</p>

<p>All one has to do to verify this is to check out the many students and parents who post on CC asking about such trips. It is very rare that any student is asking out of real interest in helping others. It's also rare that any student plans to work to fund their own trips. </p>

<p>Probably those who are like your D aren't bothering to come to CC to ask strangers if their plans are OK. Those students also are the ones who if they write about their experiences are likely to impress admissions officers.</p>

17

<p>"like the overwhelming majority of kids who take such trips: doing the trips on on a rich Daddy's bucks to impress colleges".</p>

<p>I think that the overwhelming majority screw it up for the truly dedicated and compassionate. I can't believe these kids going to Central America or Africa for two weeks to build housing for the poor. Of course the one thing these countries have is an overabundance of manual labor. And who worse than an affluent American teenager to execute manual labor?
The waste is what the $4000 or $5000 the parent spends for the kid to do this would mean to a poor Haitian or Gambian family. More than a waste. A perversion.</p>

18

<p>I've never heard of these bogus community service trips. Wow.</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
The waste is what the $4000 or $5000 the parent spends for the kid to do this would mean to a poor Haitian or Gambian family. More than a waste. A perversion.

[/quote]
Exactly. I think perversion is the perfect word.</p>

20

<p>Especially when all kids really have to do to experience a totally different world is head to the low-income crime-ridden zones of their own communities. There are many service opportunities in such places and the culture is just as exotic as on another continent. I really don't get the need to send kids over seas in high school.</p>