"Blurring the Line Between a College Application and a Slick Sales Pitch"

Parents Forum
21

<p>I agree w/ posts 16-20 - - these $4-5,000 programs may be interesting experiences, but to call them "service" programs is a perversio. And most student who participate in these programs can find service opportunities right in their own backyards (to msi/qote Judy Garland as Dorothy Gale).</p>

<p>But then is participation these programs - even for 3 summers and even if she earns her plane fare - laudable? Wouldn't it still be more effective, even if less fun for the student, to donate the money she earned and her parents paid for the programs (see posts 17-18)?</p>

<p>There are, however, a number of inexpensive overseas service programs but they require that participants be at least 18 yrs old, and not an option for the high schoolers hoping to impress adcoms.</p>

22

<p>"Guidance counselors and private coaches alike are walking that fine line between describing the authentic and air-brushing it for the most obvious of all reasons "</p>

<p>It may be a fine line when filling out the application, but perhaps not when measured in hindsight twenty years hence. I can only imagine what an "honest" application would have looked like for Bill Gates:</p>

<p>"Bill can't be described as anything but SPECTACULAR!!! He will transform the way entire societies operate, and leave more money to philanthropic causes than many countries spend in a decade." </p>

<p>For contrast, I leave someone else to proffer a true application spiel for another brilliant student, Theodore Kaczynski.</p>

23

<p>A few random thoughts in response to a couple of the previous posts:</p>

<p>“Wouldn't it still be more effective, even if less fun for the student, to donate the money she earned…”</p>

<p>It would take a million American students donating their plane fare to make a dent in the physical needs of kids in Africa. But even just one or two kids going every month to a specific area, being involved, working in their schools and hospitals, playing their games, and showing them love does make an immediate impact on their daily lives. They need that: they need that HOPE and attention as much as they need the one meal a day they get at their feeding centers.</p>

<p>If you’ve ever volunteered with any group or organization, here or abroad, one of the first things you learn from the experience is that the people you went to help actually helped you more than you helped them. But it’s when you come home and keep giving, keep spreading the message, encouraging others to go and to give, that’s when you really begin to make a difference. Until you go, you really have no idea what’s going on in other parts of the world and how desperately they need people to go over there and help. Reading about it in the newspaper or watching a 30-second blip on the nightly news just doesn’t cover it. </p>

<p>“But then is participation these programs - even for 3 summers and even if she earns her plane fare - laudable?”</p>

<p>Believe it or not, there ARE people who want to go for no other reason than that they just want to help. They don’t care if you or college adcoms think it’s laudable. And if you can’t understand that, there is no way I can ever explain it to you. </p>

<p>“And most student who participate in these programs can find service opportunities right in their own backyards.” </p>

<p>The kids I know and have met who have been to Africa are also heavily involved in service opportunities in their communities. That’s their nature.</p>

<p>Again, my sole argument in this issue is simply to give an alternative viewpoint to the cynicism that seems to pop up on this forum re: student service abroad and college admissions. </p>

<p>And for the record, my daughter also spent four weeks in Haiti immediately after graduating from high school – acceptances and scholarships were already in hand. When she arrived, she was the only American teenager in the hospital compound, although a college student later came for one week with her father who was a doctor. They never left the hospital compound as it wasn’t safe, except for a one-day trip to the ocean. Among her many duties - holding flashlights when the power went out so VOLUNTEER doctors could amputate limbs to save the lives of malnutritioned children and adults. She made hundreds of origami birds and pelicans for children in the nursery to distract them from the fact that they had just had surgery and there was no more pain medication. She sent e-mail messages back relating the needs of the hospital and additional supplies were sent. Was this what you call “fun”? But ask her if she’d do it again, she’ll probably say… next summer.</p>

24

<p>Webbie - - </p>

<p>Your D certainly sounds like the exception - - I haven't seen a lot of the overseas service kids engaged in service projects at home, "spreading the message" or selecting overseas projects that require the amout of work you described. </p>

<p>Significantly, your D went to Haiti after graduating from hs; as I stated in post #21, there are INCREDIBLE, low-cost, demanding overseas service opportunities for adult students (hs grads and age 18+). These are true service (with a capital "S") programs and bear little resemb to the high-priced fun-in-the-sun "service" programs for 15-17 year old hs students.</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
Believe it or not, there ARE people who want to go for no other reason than that they just want to help. They don’t care if you or college adcoms think it’s laudable. And if you can’t understand that, there is no way I can ever explain it to you.

[/quote]
Webbie, I don't think anyone questions this. Your D has a generous spirit, I am sure. I think the point being made is effective use of resources. Maybe instead of oragami birds to distract kids in pain, her airfare $$ would have been better spent on pain meds. Or on a generator that would keep the lights on, rather than people holding flash lights. We know several surgeons who travel to third world countries, as well as a board member of an organization devoted to repairing facial deformities in those countries. While any layman's volunteer service is valuable, it is just common sense that a surgeon or skilled engineer or carpenter will bring more "value" to the charity mission than a good-hearted kid. One of our surgeon friends is pushing to require these service trips for any surgeon desiring to join a professional organization.</p>

26

<p>Wow! I didn't realize people pay $4-5, 000 for Junior to do volunteer service. If it is a service that cannot be performed by a local, like physicians going to thrid world countries and bringing Jr. to help with intake and paperwork that may be more reasonable. Otherwise, Habitat for Humanity always needs help.</p>

<p>Many kids in our area go on 'mission trips' with their local churches or youth groups, I am sure that they pay a small fortune for those as well, but typically they are going to places that do need more warm bodies to do manual labor because the villages may have been wiped out by storms or floods. They are also bringing in medical supplies and food. Without more detail, I am not willing to condemn. I imagine that, the college administrators are pretty good at marginalizing some of these things.</p>

27

<p>The absence of skill isn't the only issue; donating $ for local initiatives stimulates the local economy (hiring local carpenters to built houses) and self-sufficiency and is therefore of far more value than hosting a group of well-meaning unskilled teens.</p>

28

<p>Many international organizations recognize that American youths visiting third world countries are some of their most powerful assets and future revenue sources. They welcome these "unskilled" laborers because it's our youth who have the most time and their futures in front of them to continue to contribute to their coffers, their volunteer base and their organizational structure.</p>

<p>There is much more needed than just building houses. Some of the kids I know have gone to Africa and returned to accomplish some of these goals: instituted goat and chicken farming projects to provide income and food to families; created multi-media projects for the organizations from photos and videos from their visits that have made resulted in increased contributions to and awareness of their organizations; organized fund raising activities in American schools that have provided "scholarships" for African teens to continue their education (you have to pay for your high school education in Africa). And, oftentimes even more important, is the encouragement their visits give to the volunteer workers already there.</p>

<p>A visit is, in essence, oftentimes more important and can ultimately be much more valuable, than contributing the value of an airline ticket.</p>

29

<p>I still don't see how a TEEN (who requires expensive supervision not provided for adult volunteers) traveling to Africa and initiating a goat/chicken farming project is more valuable than contributing to Heifer or a similar existing program. (FYI: $5K to Heifer funds a Gift Ark - - 2 each cows, sheep, camels, oxen, water buffalo,pigs, goats, donkeys, llamas, flocks of geese, flocks of chick and beehives; 6 each ducks, rabbits and guinea pigs.)</p>

<p>Just my opinion.</p>

30

<p>NYC: The surgeons I mentioned also returned & spread the word, setting up websites & promoting their projects at conferences. We get slick mailings from our friend who is trying to conquer facial deformities, as well. I agree that much of the $$ spent in kid service projects opverseas could be put to better use if it is indeed the third worlders we are talking about helping, and not polishing teen resumes. No doubt it is a life changing experience for the teens. But less exotic local areas would also provide that culture shock to knock suburban kids out of their cocoon of comfort.</p>

<p>Webbie: What your D & other teens accomplished could be done locally, as well. In fact it IS being done for local charities by teens all the time.</p>

31

<p>Well, of course it could be done anywhere and from anywhere. </p>

<p>For those who pick up their checkbooks and make a contribution to help, I say fantastic! That's needed. You're performing a great service. And if you want to write about your donations in your college essays, go for it!</p>

<p>For those who choose to go and contribute their time and talents, I say way to go. You're also to be congratulated. And if it has been so important to you that you want to write about it in your college essays. Go for it!</p>

32

<p>The teens who participate in the overseas programs are to be commended for their service, but the service component of such programs should not be overstated - - and IMHO, spending 3 of 14 days building a school does not convert a tour, no matter how enriching for the student, to a service project. I trust that adcoms know a "real" service program when they see it and recognize that expensive teen projects for precisel;y what they - - a wonderfully enriching exprience at a price most families cant' afford.</p>

33

<p>I think they get that.</p>

34

<p>I can think of many examples of kids who did the paid-for-by-rich-parents junkets, <em>and</em> who were successful in their college acceptances. But there is a double correllation here- do they get a leg up because they went on the 4 week/ 6 week/ 8 week whatever...Or because they're rich? Seriously. </p>

<p>Wealth is an asset, no doubt about it. For many colleges, the ability to pay full freight, and more, throughout college and after is a huge plus. Is it really the overseas community service that helped one student get in over another higher qualified student from the same high school? That's an easy thing for the GC to tell all the parents (or the parents to tell themselves) when the accepted student is below the non-accepted student average in terms of GPA and test scores. But in reality, there is probably a dual correllation going on, which skews the perception of how important out-of-country junkets really are.</p>

<p>I'm seeing this through the eyes of a (middle class) parent whose kids went to a private high school on "scholarship". It was obvious that in a lot of ways, money spoke in the college admissions process. Coincidentally, many privileged children also tended to do summer programs- overseas service, $5000+ educational programs at universities, etc. What came first, the chicken or the egg?</p>

35

<p>Going back to the OP article, this interesting article in The Economist on the U.S."college arms race" and related building boom makes mention of some recent trends in how colleges wind up pitting themselves against other IHEs in their pitch to attract the best and the brightest, not to mention the paying customer:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Part of the explanation is demographic. The Department of Education estimates that American high schools pumped out 3,176,000 seniors in 2006, up 26% from 1995. Consequently, university enrolments swelled 24% during the same period and are projected to rise another 13% by 2015... </p>

<p>But with more students entering university, there are also more desirable applicants, a fact that encourages universities to try and expand the number of highly qualified students they can attract. New student amenities and labs help universities outdo each other. The competition for prestige, in the form of top students, prominent faculty members and grant money, is intense: it can also get remarkably petty. Last year the Dallas Morning News reported that Baylor University increased the height of its planned rock-climbing wall from 41 to 52 feet after learning that Texas A&M University's was 44 feet. Then the University of Houston built a climbing wall that was 53 feet high, and even that was later surpassed by the University of Texas at San Antonio...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Construction</a> on campus | Just add cash | Economist.com</p>

<p>NewHope33: yes, indeed, hindsight is always twenty-twenty, but then again, some things never change:</p>

<p>
[quote]
The fact that we cannot tell with any assurance does not mean we can avoid making the evaluation. The admissions decision cannot be either mechanical or riskless...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Muyskens</a> letter</p>

36

<p>From Muyskens letter:</p>

<p>"Fourth, moral concern and consideration for others has its place high in the list of attributes worthy of reward. Not only should demonstrated amorality and selfishness be held against an applicant no matter how bright he may seem, but outstanding public motivation and capacity to sacrifice the self for something larger seems to me to deserve positive appreciation in the admissions process."</p>

<p>and in its evaluation:</p>

<p>"Moral concern and consideration for others" is almost impossible to weigh in the competitive terms which the admissions process requires. However there may be some cases where its demonstration has been so dramatic or objectively convincing as to deserve reward. On the negative side a demonstrated failure of moral sensitivity or regard for the dignity of others cannot be redeemed by allegations that the young man is extremely "interesting." I do not consider this a counsel of conformity, for I myself consider some of the most heterodox of the young to be the most morally motivated. On the other hand I do not think that pretensions of self righteousness can excuse either cynicisms or willful disregard for the rights and dignity of others."</p>

37

<p>"I can think of many examples of kids who did the paid-for-by-rich-parents junkets, <em>and</em> who were successful in their college acceptances. But there is a double correllation here- do they get a leg up because they went on the 4 week/ 6 week/ 8 week whatever...Or because they're rich? Seriously."</p>

<p>1.With the exception of admitting star athletes, most colleges do admissions virtually exclusively by the stats. If ECs count for anything, they count for merit aid.</p>

<ol>
<li>For the very top colleges that have such an overabundance of stellar applicants that the colleges get to select students based in part on who will best help contribute to a diverse campus with hundreds of student-run active ECs, certainly some students get in who have participated in those paid "community service" junkets. Having done such trips aren't going to get students autorejected by such colleges. However, those experiences aren't going to get the students accepted either unless the student did something unusual like worked to raise the money to go on the trip.</li>
</ol>

<p>And the student would need to be extremely wealthy -- such as having parents capable of making 7 figure donations -- for a student to get tipped in because of wealth.</p>

38

<p>"Webbie: What your D & other teens accomplished could be done locally, as well. In fact it IS being done for local charities by teens all the time.
"</p>

<p>Occasionally, I have encountered students like Webbie's D -- who longed to do service abroad, and who researched and found an opportunity, and then worked hard to earn the money to go abroad and do service.</p>

<p>I've never met such a student who wasn't also involved in doing service locally.</p>

<p>I also think that for such a student, the abroad experience can give them a headstart in the preparation that they need for their careers, which tend to be in things that would allow them to do service abroad.</p>

<p>For instance, one student who I know did abroad service as a high school student and college student, now is in medical school after doing a year of malarial research as a Fulbright fellow in Africa. Even as a high school student, she planned to become a doctor addressing public health issues in Africa. Her experience in Guatemala as a h.s. student helped her become aware of what kind of skills (including cultural and linguistic) that she needed to develop to be effective at her chosen career.</p>

<p>There probably are some students who earn money to do service abroad who learn that kind of work is not for them. I'd bet that many students either as adults provide financial support to agencies that do work abroad or turn their talents toward making service contributions that best fit their personalities and skills.</p>

39

<p>A $$ "tip" isn't limited to development admits. Even among the top 20 LACs, schools are concerned w/ their discount rates and looking to enroll at least a handful more full-freight students in each class, so asteriskea is on to something. </p>

<p>OTOH, I would certainly hope that participating in a "community service" junket wouldn't result in autoreject. If the primary complaint is that these trips are light on service, the junkets shouldn't be viewed any less favorably than other non-service foreign travel.</p>

<p>As for Muyskens, I don't think the letter in any way suggests that moral concern, self-sacrifice for others or any of the other values expoussed can't be expressed through local service. No teen needs to travel abroad to do good and traveling abroad doesn't (shouldn't) increase the "goodness" or value of the teen's service/work.</p>

<p>N'star-</p>

<p>I khow MANY students who participated in these programs and engage in no service work at home. And even if the programs can jumpstart a student's preparation for a future career, that doesn't change the fact that there is often very litte "service" in these teen service junkets. I think other posters have said the programs are valuable and enriching experiences, but it is misleading to describe a program where students spend 4 days of service and 8 days of homestay and 14days traveling as service programs.</p>

40

<p>"khow MANY students who participated in these programs and engage in no service work at home. And even if the programs can jumpstart a student's preparation for a future career, that doesn't change the fact that there is often very litte "service" in these teen service junkets. ..."</p>

<p>I totally agree with you, and if you check my posts, you'l see that we're singing the same tune.</p>

<p>My post #38 saying how the trips can be valuable specifically referred to those RARE students who seek out those opportunities themselves and then work to pay for them. </p>

<p>The students who go because their well off parents are happy to pay for expensive resume polishing options are not the kind of students whom I was referring to. I agree with you: These students are the ones who do community service only when its packaged and on Daddy's dime. I doubt that students who only do service under such circumstances get inspired to work locally after packaged service options abroad that they were handed by their parents.</p>