BM music ed vs BA music plus MAT...

College Majors Music Major
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<p>OK, my son is a sophomore BM ed major, which at his college is 132 semester hours plus an additional 16 credit hours for a performance certificate, which will total 148 semester hours.</p>

<p>After this semester, he will have 85 credit hours (including a summer school), and he just realized that he will practically be a senior. He looked at the curriculum for a BA in music, which is only 120 credit hours and he will already have completed most of the music classes required for a BA in music by the end of this semester. That means that he could basically skip his Jr. year and graduate at the end of next year by taking 18 credit hours each semester next year, which is what the same that he would have to take as a BM major with a performance certificate.</p>

<p>What he is wondering is if he should just go ahead and graduate early, with the less concentrated BA degree, and use that year to get a MAT with a specialty in music ed, which will give him the exact same qualifications and certificate to teach.</p>

<p>Of course he would make more teaching with a masters degree than he would a BM, and few public school administrators would even recognize the difference between a BM and a BA as they are not typically music professionals.</p>

<p>The down side would be that he would have considerably less education in performance. But with the extreme unlikelyness of him ever making a living performing short of cobbling together a living, essentially being self employed, like most professional musicians do. Me and his mom have been self employed his entire life, and he just doesn't want to have to go through what we have been through being self employed. So I don't know that not having more performance education really will make a difference in his life (other than for him to possibly feel that he let himself down by not pursuing performance more).</p>

<p>And of course if he ends up like most music students, getting a job outside of music, it wouldn't make a lick of difference whether his undergrad was a BM or a BA. Would it?</p>

<p>So any pro's and cons about doing a BA/MAT combo instead of his current BM Ed?</p>

<p>It's the same amount of time, about the same financial cost, and if he does choose a career in teaching, the BA/MAT route would provide a larger income from day one of his teaching career.</p>

<p>Would having a BA instead of a BM make it any harder for him to get into grad school for music or for any other grad major that he may choose to pursue?</p>

<p>Am I missing anything? It seems just too easy.</p>

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<p>Would he do the master’s at the same school or would other schools be in the running.</p>

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<p>Compdad, he isn’t that far along with his thinking/planning yet. But his current school does offer several postgrad options: MM, MAT, or a Certificate of Graduate Study in Music Performance. He could complete any of these no longer than one semester longer than it would have taken him to complete his current program.</p>

<p>There is another school in our state that offers a one year MAT program (plus a summer school). If he went that route, he could be a public school music teacher with a masters just as quickly as being a public school music teacher with just a bachelors (BM).</p>

<p>I think his biggest issue is that he doesn’t feel that his performance skills are improving right now, and is exceptionally frustrated with his performance level. He started college feeling pretty good about his performance skills, but not so much now. Thats why he is thinking that if he has little chance of ever becoming a performer, maybe he should take the easier route and just teach at the public school level. </p>

<p>His first career choice would be as a performer in one of the few ensembles that actually pay a living wage, his second choice is to teach any aspect of music at the college level (like maybe in a dozen years from now), his third choice would be to teach music at the public school level, his fourth choice would be any career that involves music.</p>

<p>Is it generally better to do grad school at the same college at the bachelors or at a different school?</p>

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<p>Oh, he is an emotional thinker, unlike me. This is the first week of class and he can change some of his classes online with no special paperwork, yesterday he changed several classes to start the process of converting over to a BA student. Today he called me panicking saying “what did I do, Dr. X is going to be furious with me and I don’t think that I can face Professor Y, bla bla bla”. I think that he is changing all of his classes back to the BM curriculum today (will not know for sure until tonight).</p>

<p>He really doesn’t have to make this decision until after this semester though, every class that he takes this semester will still count towards either degree option.</p>

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<p>imagep, I wish I had specific, solid advice relevant to your son’s situation. But you and he should also keep in mind that second semester sophomore year is possibly the most challenging time for both performance and music ed students. The glow of freshman year is off and it seems like everything you do is just not good enough. Unlike juniors and seniors, who can see the light at the end of the tunnel and have that extra year or two of practice under their belt, sophomores often feel, well, downtrodden.</p>

<p>You’ve always championed making the most of the opportunities available and suggested that students explore both the performance and education paths. I think you may have hit on the key question when you mentioned long term impacts: in 10/20/30 years, will he regret not having given the performance certificate a shot?</p>

<p>On the other hand, the concept of having two degrees, one a master’s, in hand, in the same number of semesters of study does have its allure.</p>

<p>Maybe Prof X - who knows him as a person and a musician and a student - will have words of wisdom that will guide him to the right decision for him.</p>

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<p>Okay, I’m going to go out on a limb here and give you some food for thought, knowing that this is not ALWAYS the case and knowing that my answer might not be popular or even accurate. But I have been party/privvy to hiring decisions in similar settings, so my views are at least “half” cocked ;)</p>

<p>Let me ask you this.</p>

<p>Scenario A: You Are A Ad Com at the Maters Level
Let’s assume that you believe: A BM is a professional degree.
A BA is a liberal arts undergraduate degree.</p>

<p>and you said to me: “I have a BA. Choose me for your Masters program.”</p>

<p>What would you say? Well, if it were a performance masters, obviously that would depend on the AUDITION. If it were an academic degree, perhaps less so. But where would you expect the PROGRESS IN PERFORMANCE CAPABILITY to occur? The BM, of course. So in this scenario, the advice would be to keep plugging.</p>

<p>Second line of/food for thought scenario.</p>

<p>I am an education administrator at a High School. My human resource department hires/vets people who most closely match a check list - so whoever I choose I ultimately have to clear through hr. For math, they hire math majors. If a double math major or a math major with distinction applies, good on them, they get a closer look (unless I’m looking for someone to fill TWO department shortages). </p>

<p>Now, your son has decided to be, let’s say, a high school band and orchestra teacher. He has a BA, and an Ed certification. The next guy has a BM Ed. If all other variables were equal, who will most closely match the “check list?” If the goal is the most proficient conductor for a band program AND a band teacher, then the kid with the BM Ed whose taken multiple instruments AND conducting is going to be more attractive.</p>

<p>And, as in a case I’m familiar with, let’s say said candidate is SO good at performing, he is also employed by the local part-time orchestra. Well, what a great boost to the band program, right?</p>

<p>By the same token, if a school really wants someone who can teach chorus and maybe take on a few Spanish classes at a comprehensive school, then maybe the BA would be more attractive if it afforded room for the cognate subject.</p>

<p>But someone who loves music enough to go to school for music would likely enjoy engagement at the highest possible talent level, like a performing arts school or GT program where there is a high ratio of outstanding students to teach. And the candidate with the BM ed I think would have a better shot at that position (all else being equal.)</p>

<p>Just some thoughts to consider. He might just need encouragement moving forward. A lot of talented people hit that wall once they realize just how many OTHER, and often “more” talented people there are when exposed to a larger pool.</p>

<p>At the same time, if he’s actually unhappy and not enjoying the degree, well then, maybe it is not the right fit. Just help him talk it all out and he’ll find his way. Best wishes.</p>

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<p>As the mom of a second semester sophomore music ed/performance major, I understand your concerns. Both Stradmom and KMCmom, as always, raise good points. Son is not looking forward to returning for the Spring semester because Sophomore year at his school is a bear. (An informal poll of his peers shows they all feel the same way.) He fortunately passed his performance levels and his music ed sophomore evaluation but he knows that he is facing the toughest tech classes, theory, aural skills and music history of his college undergrad career. At his school, once you make it through this semester college becomes a little easier. He is thinking of dropping the performance major because he has trouble practicing enough to make himself happy. We recommended that he stick with the dual major and reevaluate at the end of the semester.<br>
As for a BM Music Ed versus a BA with a masters in teaching, he will probably be better prepared with the BM Music Ed vs the other route. At our church, there are 5 music teachers who are alum from his school and they strongly recommended the BM route in music ed. Also, it has paid dividends with his summer employment. He was hired by a camp for children with diagnosed behavior problems one summer due to his music ed curriculum. They wanted a music program and recognized that he had an education background even if it was limited at the time. Last summer, this break and next summer, he has a full time including overtime job at an historic fort. Besides giving tours and interpretations, he will also be in charge of school groups. He is the only ed major so they gave him the position.
Also, 2 out 3 of his immediate supervisors have music degrees and/ or classical music training.
Urge your son to stick with the education major because he will learn employable skills even if the market for music teachers is nonexistent when they graduate.</p>

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<p>Thanks to all you <em>mom</em> posters.</p>

<p>He called me just a few minutes ago, didn’t sound to talkative so I just told him to call me back later. I am now just hoping that I didn’t give him any bad advice or that he didn’t do anything to limit his future direction.</p>

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<p>What a great thread! Maybe you should copy and send the 3 mom’s posts to him. I’m new to this world, but know psychology. The advice is not only outstanding, but reassuring. Just to hear that so many others experience this at the same time is huge. </p>

<p>Is it possible to get the BM in music ed with a performance minor? (Again I am new to the college music world, so maybe not.)</p>

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<p>Yes, it is possible at his school to get the BM in music ed without the performance certificate (which would indeed be more or less like a minor). Most music ed students at his school are not in the performance certificate program.</p>

<p>At this point, he seems to be pretty committed to staying in the BM Ed program, and committed to the performance certificate also - but I am sure that is depending on what mood he is in on any one particular day. </p>

<p>During the fall semester, every single class that he took was a music class, I think that was burning him out some, this semester he is taking a couple of non-music classes, and honestly I think that is helping.</p>

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<p>Sounds like he is at a good school. Would you mind sharing which it is?</p>

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<p>The east coast USC (South Carolina).</p>

<p>He loves the school and has had some really good instructors. They aren’t well known at all for music outside of SC, but the main professor for his particular instrument (trumpet) is excellent, has really high expectations of his students, and will not accept anything less than their best. They also have Allen Vizzuitti (one of the top trumpet performers in the world) who teaches there a few weeks each semester, my son has had a lot of opportunities to seem Vizzuitti perform, has actually been able to perform with him in performance (televised), and has had both master classes and private lessons with him. There are a couple of youtube video of Vizzuitti giving a master class there, my kid is in the front row.</p>

<p>The performance certificate program adds roughly a semester to the length of time it takes to graduate. My son has made up that time by taking a some general education classes at our local community college during the summer.</p>

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<p>Imagep - I’m going to have to put a plug in for USC’s composition program. My son’s application to USC would have been one of those sent off had it been necessary after the Oberlin early review process. The faculty includes John Fitz Rogers who graduated from Oberlin before going on to Yale and Cornell. I was also impressed with how nice the folks from USC were at the performing arts college fairs my son attended.</p>