Though off topic, let me say that Choate promptly completed everything required by the service academy application process; it just wasn’t much. The SAs assign their own “counselors” (Field Force Reps/Blue and Gold Officers/ALOs) to each applicant. Because the academies don’t require anything of the applicant’s high school beyond LORs and transcripts, the HS does not need a relationship with the academy or much understanding of the process as everything beyond the recs and transcript is handled between the applicant and their academy rep. No parental involvement is required (or desired) either. It’s just a different ball of wax and doesn’t belong in this conversation.
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I agree that the School Counselor knows how the student stacks up against their classmates and the relationship their prep school has with colleges and so on. An independent college counselor is not INSTEAD of the school counselor. My students share with me any requirements their school counselor may have and relevant information related to that. They still meet with their school counselor as required. The private counselor is providing many additional services and time that I just don’t think a school based counselor has time to do. Just tonight (I work 7 days/nights per week and my students have access at any time of day), I’ve been working on drafts of materials each student is providing and individualizing for every recommendation writer and school counselor…as many drafts of that task it takes, as well as their activity resumes (this is all merely one step in the process, but I spend countless hours on it per student). You mention the school counselor is on campus at boarding school, but I am available 24/7 and my students live all over the US and in other countries.
In terms of getting to know a student well, many start working with me (or other independent counselors) in 9th, 10th, or 11th grades, well before we get to the actual admissions process. I know each student extremely well, and have often mentored them over the years, not just when they get to the college apps. I’m in contact with the older high school students many times per week.
My fees are not what you likely think. They are around the national average. I probably earn what you might even consider a fairly low income. I know you say it is expensive, but I don’t know how much you think it costs. There are a range of fees out there amount private counselors. Some are outrageously expensive. I am not. But my income each year is not just the 12 seniors, as I also have 9th, 10th, and 11th graders going multi-year packages. Still, my guess is by CC standards, I’d be called fairly low income (though not if talking income levels in the country). Also, my clients contract for comprehensive, unlimited packages, which have no time limits. If I ever counted up the hours per family, my hourly income would be quite low. Let’s put it this way, I could never afford to send my kids to boarding school.
I’m not trying to make a case for college consultants, but merely saying that some families find it beneficial for a variety of reasons, even the many students I have who attend private prep day and boarding schools. I am NOT saying it is a necessity at all.
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Wait - you are telling recomenders what to write?
I think its a misrepresentation to say your attention is exclusive to 12 seniors at a time. It sounds like you don’t take more clients than you can manage well, but a school good school CC has no problem handling 35 or so students at a time. FWIW, we have always been able to get a meeting within 24hrs if needed. We specifically had a. long call in the middle of the summer, while I was abroad on vacation, in transit. I believe the CC was at the beach at the time.
But to your point - to each their own. Is it a need? No. Are there parents who’d rather delegate as much as possible? Sure. Are outcomes different? Doubtful.
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The reason to hire a private college counselor is not to achieve a different outcome. Similarly, the reason to attend boarding school is not to achieve a different outcome in college admissions. You can into amazing selective colleges whether you use a private college counselor or not. You can get into very selective colleges whether you go to boarding school or not. On the latter point, I’ll give my own two children as an example…they went to a no name public school. One child got into Ivies for undergrad, Ivies plus MIT and Stanford for grad school. The other child got into highly selective BFA in Musical Theater programs (acceptance rates on par with MIT, if you are not familiar with the odds at such program). There are many ways to reach one’s goals.
You say a good college counselor can manage 35 students well. Sure, they can! Can they do multiple drafts of every single piece and unlimited hours per student? There are only so many hours in a day. You mention in an earlier post on this thread that your child’s boarding school college counselor meets with the students once every other week. I’m working many hours and days each week with each senior. Reaching your school counselor in the middle of the summer does not impress me. I work every day of the summer for my students. My colleagues also work all summer.
You ask if I am having student tell recommenders what to write? Any person well versed on this process, be it a school based counselor, or an independent counselor, would tell you that the student should provide some insights and thoughts about themselves to the person writing a rec, no matter how well the rec writer knows them! In fact, in many of the most well regarded private and public schools, the school counselor and teachers even have extensive questionnaires that they ask the student to fill out as part of the process of securing the recommendation. Sharing an activity resume is also common place. The recommendation process is a key piece of the admissions process and there are ways to go about this most effectively, and yes, even at boarding schools. Sharing what you wish to convey about yourself on your own applications with those who write your recs so it is a coordinated “message” is beneficial. No, the student is not telling the rec writer what to write. The best rec writers are ones who know them very well. Rather, they are sharing things about themselves they hope might be conveyed in their recs. The rec writer chooses to write what they wish. Again, many, many teachers and school counselors require such materials be given to them before they write their recs.
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I never suggested otherwise.
@TonyGrace I know you did not suggest otherwise. I was just making an additional point.
I don’t know what you charge but agree that it takes a lot of time - for which you need to be paid… My point was simply that you, serving students in many geographies, rather than on one BS campus, and not being in a position to just talk to those recommenders about the student - perhaps before they are even asked to write a rec -, have to deal with a lot of inefficiencies that a BS CC does not. Is it 3 times less efficient? I don’t know. But the BS CC, even by virtue of being on campus when college reps visit, doesn’t have to put in the hours you do to get to the same place. Your lighter client load may not necessarily translate into better service in this case.
I also want to say, @soozievt , because of the extremely positive experience we had with our BS CC, that I feel that a good CC is a great investment for many families who aren’t getting that at their own school. My kid benefitted enormously from their perspective and guidance (including that to scrap the first 2 essays!). This is a real and valuable service. I wasn’t implying otherwise.
And my point in this thread is that I struggle to see how having 2 people in this role – the BS CC and an independent one – provides much more value. But yes, a personal decision.
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Of course people hire you in the hopes of achieving a different outcome. Why else do it? People don’t need a counselor to spend countless hours honing the perfect message and packaging their child if they aren’t hoping to move the needle at the most selective colleges. More typical schools aren’t scrutinizing their applicants to the level that requires carefully curated and packaged essays, ECs etc.
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I hired a private counselor for my kids when they started HS (not at a BS but a highly ranked affluent public HS with decent GCs) primarily to have an unbiased third party holding my kids accountable for HS grades and ultimately guide them thru the college admission process. Not having to be the one to keep my kids on task during application season was worth the price of the counselor. I didn’t expect different outcomes, I assume you mean gaining admission to a relatively more prestigious school than they would have otherwise?
ETA: Perhaps there are those who hire an IEC who do so to get better college outcomes, not dissimilar from some who send their kids to BS for the same reason.
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I should have been more specific. I have several friends who hired cc’s to do what you described. It wasn’t to get their kid into a more selective school. But if you are hiring someone to work with your kid starting in 9th grade who will help curate their activities, coordinate messaging between recommenders and otherwise package your child then I think it’s probably in the hopes of upping the likelihood of an elite school acceptance.
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Even parents who hire a private CC only to “hold their kids accountable for deadlines” are doing so because they expect a better outcome. Because you could just leave your kids to meet the deadlines on their own. If they fail to meet the deadlines of the most rejective schools, there are still many wonderful options, here are just a few of the schools still accepting applications: College Openings Update - National Association for College Admission Counseling (NACAC).
But no, obviously these schools are not acceptable to parents sending their kids to boarding schools or hiring private CCs! They expect a better outcome.
(A little shout out here to the great kids across the nation who do this process all on their own, not with a ratio of 1:12 or 1:35 or anything like it. Kids who “package” themselves all on their own, who meet deadlines all on their own, who write and revise their essays all on their own.)
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I’m with @Mwfan1921. That is not the reason to hire an independent college consultant. I realize some parents hold that view. I don’t think one should hire a counselor with the goal of “getting their kid into a college that they may not have otherwise gotten into.” We don’t get kids admitted. Rather, we advise and mentor the student as they navigate the process. We have expertise the student or family may not have. We are also an objective person who doesn’t have the same emotional relationship the student has with their parents and some parents like having such a person working with their child. We know how to go about this process well. I see the college lists that some families make on their own and it is often unrealistic and unbalanced or inappropriate for the student. Having the wrong college list can negatively affect the whole process. I see the essays that some write on their own or even with an English teacher and many times these are not what they need to be. Many don’t go about campus visits in an ideal way. I could go on to point out each of these things. There are elements to the college process we do that many don’t know to do or think of doing. We tend do go about all the facets of the college selection and admissions process and all the things that come before that point in ways that they may not have done otherwise. We support and help the student and their parents go about things in the best possible way, that many families find beneficial.
For college counselors offering unlimited help, we are there every step of every task and topic and all the questions that evolve along the way. Sure someone could do this on their own! Many find great value in having the expertise and experience of someone in this field. I agree with @Mwfan1921, however, that we don’t get a student into a more prestigious college than they may have otherwise. I don’t take credit for that. @Thorsmom66, you mention that families use college counselors to get them into the “most selective colleges.” I work with a wide range of students, whomever wants the help. Some are very high achievers who are applying to highly selective colleges, but some are not. Not everyone out there is trying to gain admissions to the most selective colleges. I don’t screen families and only take ones qualified for and seeking such colleges (there are counselors who do that and claim all their clients got into top 20 colleges or some such). A significant number of my clients are seeking very selective colleges and I have expertise in that area, but again, all types of students and their families not only work with me, but benefit from the expertise and experience of a college counselor helping them through the college process, and if starting earlier in high school, then in mentoring a student to become the best possible version of themselves. We don’t “package” them as you allude. A parent can do all this too, but many find it helps to have an objective person working with their child. The purpose of working with independent college counselors is not to achieve a different outcome. It is to guide the student through every aspect of the process to achieve a positive outcome, whatever it may be. College counselors can’t get a student into, let’s say, Harvard, if the kid would not otherwise have a shot at it. And yes, I have had clients get into Harvard. I don’t take credit for “getting them in.”
I think it is a skewed viewpoint if you think everyone using private counselors are trying to gain admission for the most selective colleges. While many of my clients do fit that profile/qualifications and apply to such colleges, I have a couple students with a GPA around 2.7, for example. They also want and benefit from individualized college counseling every step of the way. And I have students in between these extremes. College counseling is not just for those seeking “top” colleges!
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I strongly feel that an experience with public schools – no matter how affluent – is nothing like boarding school college counseling. And so relating such experiences is unhelpful as they do not apply.
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Public school counselors are typically assigned a lot more students than those in a private day or boarding school.
However, again, many clients of mine are attending private day and boarding schools. People from various backgrounds seek this outside help.
I don’t disagree if you are only considering the elite/relatively selective boarding schools, which CC tends to be focused on. I would not extend that statement to cover all US BSs though.
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The folks I know who work as CCs, whether at BS or independently, might say this is one group of student who are the most likely to benefit from being in the right place, and that’sexactlywhat a good Cc can help with. The reasons a student has a 2.7 are often ones which require the best placement for college.
While the 4.0 student may be gunning for Harvard, they will probably be able to extract the full value from any academic environment. People ofyen think of outcomes as acceptances, when in fact acceptances are just the first step in the journey. Outcomes happen years later.
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I think anyone can benefit from college counseling.
Where you attend college is not the ticket to one’s success and later outcomes. It’s what you do. That said, finding a great college fit makes for a great educational experience.
Speaking as a parent, my own kids loved their colleges and for that, I am so grateful. Both are quite successful in their respective professions. I don’t think that is due to where they went to college, but more to do with who they are and their inner drive. Their colleges were wonderful fits for them and excellent educational and enriching experiences. But yes, the outcomes come later in life.
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I was responding to your earlier comments where you discussed working with kids as early as 9th grade, coordinating recommendations, creating a strong narrative etc. To me, this sounds like the effort someone puts in when they are hoping for a very selective college acceptance. Of course, a wide range of students could benefit from college counseling, but the services they are typically looking for (managing the process, seeking out hidden gems, brainstorming essay topics etc) are not what you described above.
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@Thorsmom66 I’m doing all these things with EVERY student from the tippy top high achiever seeking highly selective colleges to the average student and to the below average student. Same efforts and steps to achieve a positive result. Students of all types start at younger ages/grades, in my practice too. The services provided are the same no matter the profile of the student or the types of colleges they wish to pursue. There are additional service components for those seeking performing arts programs by audition though.
By the way, you mention essays, and this is a huge component of the college counseling process with the many essays that must be written and however many drafts of each essay it may take. This is true no matter the level of student or colleges involved. The differences between students on this component are some are superb writers and others are not.
Guiding the recommendation process in terms of who is chosen and providing materials for each academic teacher, supplemental rec writer, and school counselor is done with every student, not just the ones seeking highly selective admissions. No different.
Of course, those who could benefit most probably get the least. The high achieving first generation to college student with low income parents is unlikely to be attending an expensive boarding school, and unlikely to be able to afford outside college counseling to supplement the counselor at the public school (where few go to four year colleges) who has a case load of hundreds, and not just for college-related issues.
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