<p>I have heard anecdotal evidence at SAT optional colleges about not seeing any real differences in outcome in student graduation and success. When I googled “SAT optional and college success”, I also couldn’t find any hard evidence that it made a big difference. Most SAT optional colleges haven’t yet seen any major differences in student ability at their colleges. Now I’m sure the admitted students were strong students and had solid GPA’s or gave the impression they would work hard, but I don’t think you will find it to be a reversable decision in the future. I’ll be curious to see in the next 5-10 years how things pan out. The tests will never disappear but maybe not be the stress-filled horror they are for some. It will also make the test-taking companies and tutors less busy.
As one admission counselor said, "The smart and well-off students take it 4 or 5 times to get better, with tutors and classes, sometimes starting in 8th grade.The less wealthy, maybe once or twice. Then the overly tutored student says it is “fair”. For some it will never be an even plane.</p>
<p>Gaby3: Implicit in what you and the other detractors of the SAT say is the discredited assumption that SAT scores are directly proportional to the amount of times you take the test (in prep or at an actual sitting); and, the corollary that the “poor” are somehow disadvantaged by this. Of course, none of this is substantiated in the least.</p>
<p>Is a “poor” applicant who can only take the test once or twice at a disadvantage to someone who takes it 4 or 5 times? No. The data accumulated over years of testing suggests only statistically insignificant increases in a second taking (based on familiarity with the setting, procedures etc) and no statistically significant advantage to multiple takings. In any event, how many people do you really know who take the test 4-5 times? And if a few applicants do this the ever vigilant adcoms would see it and take it for what it is.</p>
<p>Similiarly, apart from familiarizing students with the test, which students can do on their own, prep courses have been shown not to have a statistically significant effect on scores. In that regard, it’s somewhat akin to the futility of studying for an IQ test. And, in any event, the SAT is not an unusual or unique test. Any student in this country no matter what school district will have seen this basic type of test for at least 6 years prior to taking the SAT. </p>
<p>You also say that you have seen no evidence that dispensing with the SAT “makes a big difference.” Not a lot of probative value in that approach. I provided some empiracal evidence to the contrary from the former provost of the SUNY system, who clearly believes the SAT is a better predictor of college sucess than grades or anything else out there for that matter. Here’s the link again.</p>
<p>My son and daughter did the SAT cold when they were in 7th grade. No geometry, no tutoring, just shown the night before how to bubble in their name etc. Their scores at that time were high enough to qualify them for admission to most Ivy League schools based on current middle 50 per cent scores. They both attend public schools and they both like to read – for fun! Are you trying to tell me that a student who is supposedly capable of a university level education can not handle the SAT’s? Please, spare me. What a load of codswallop!</p>
<p>CTMum - Good for you that your kids have no problem with standardized tests, but spare the judgmental tone until you’ve walked a mile in another parent’s shoes.</p>
<p>Oh please give me a break. Nothing judgmental here just plain commonsense. If your kid doesn’t do as well as you hoped on a standardized test then that is your problem not the kid’s or the test’s problem. Sure there are outliers but they are just that - outliers - and if you have a kid who is an outlier you probably have some clues before he takes his first SAT.</p>
<p>I see where you’re coming from, CTMum. I was in Duke TiP, and I scored at a 25 composite on the ACT - and I took it cold, etc. I had never had training in trig or anything in the math portion and did well enough to get into state universities.
However, knowing that my testing skills are ace, a lot of people have difficulties. I acknowledge that.
x</p>
<p>"… My son and daughter did the SAT cold when they were in 7th grade. No geometry, no tutoring, just shown the night before how to bubble in their name etc. Their scores at that time were high enough to qualify them for admission to most Ivy League schools based on current middle 50 per cent scores. They both attend public schools and they both like to read – for fun! Are you trying to tell me that a student who is supposedly capable of a university level education can not handle the SAT’s? Please, spare me. What a load of codswallop! "</p>
<p>… Right. So BOTH your 7th grade kids scored around a 1500 with no knowledge of geometry, no preparation, and a 7th grade education? Tons of highly educated people on here are struggling to “break that 1500”. </p>
<p>I doubt it. Not that I disagree with you- But the condescending tone annoys me. Less than 1% of people in the U.S. manage to get above a 1500. So I guess all the 99.5% or so of other moms have issues with giving their children a proper education.</p>
Okay, the condescending tone in this post is totally unnecessary. Your kids may be perfect geniuses (how exactly did they break 1500 without knowledge of geometry or algebra?), but most kids aren’t. I say this as a very good test taker whose SAT scores are a strength of her app, some kids just do not test well. Yes, I think it is sometimes used as an excuse, but there are absolutely people who just cannot take tests well (whether they have trouble with time, reading, processing multiple choice questions, etc.). Some pure geniuses just cannot take standardized tests.</p>
<p>I do think SATs are important to standardize applications somewhat, but I think it is also important that they are not the most important factor because there are so many outside factors.</p>
<p>So lets do this again. My point is not how good my kids are at taking the test. The topic of this thread is the value of the SAT. My point is that the test is not inherently bad because some kids are not “good” test takers. Millions of kids take this test and get exactly the result they should. The test is not necessarily bad because some kids don’t do as well as parents had hoped they would. It is not an inherently complicated test. It has a very standard format. Most kids have taken very similar styled tests in elementary and middle school.</p>
<p>Somtimes learning disabilities,especially ADD, isn’t brought out until high school. They compensate until the work gets longer or the doctor notices they do well in school but not on standardized tests that are long. I know a receptionist at a pediatrican’s office and she said many students (they have an office in an aflluent neighborhood) get meds just for the test. She said if it is a form of ADD, you do see many large increases in scores because the child “faded” before the test ended. For many, they didn’t notice until they did take it, how bad it was. The doctor went on to say there are many young adults and teens that have needs that don’t need daily medication, but a test like the SAT taxes them. One example was a young woman who got a 1200, fading after 3 hours, words would just start to blur, and then on a drug like Ritalin, got 1300. The difference, without any other prep, gave her a better scholarship. She just needed to finish it.
What the doctor hates is the huge influx of parents asking for it like a “magic pill” when their child isn’t ADD, just lazy or is reaching his/her limit on the test, it isn’t a chemical component.
SAT/ACTs help bring out those schools that overly inflate grades (and they vary from rich to poor neighborhoods) but they will never represent well the students that just don’t test well for various reasons but will excell in college. For them, I’m glad there are SAT optional colleges and colleges with SAT/ACT that look beyond the scores.</p>
<p>Since you posted this twice, please show me any state curricululm that teaches, must less tests for: ‘If a train leaves Cleveland at 8:00 am and a train leave Chicago at the same time…’ </p>
<p>Heck, our HS dropped matrices from the Alg I & II since it’s not on the required state curriculum.</p>