<p>Well said, mini. As for you Byerly, We don't deny that Tufts needs to improve in its yield, but your opinion that Tufts is nearly everyone's 2nd choice is simply wrong.</p>
<p>WHY does Tufts need to improve its yield? I don't see that at all. For whose benefit?</p>
<p>For Tufts' benefit, of course. </p>
<p>It is expensive and inefficient to have to admit five people in order to fill one seat, and then hope the one you get helps you (1) keep standards up, (2) fill EC programs and a range of academic majors, and (3) meet diversity goals, all without requiring more financial aid than resources will bear.</p>
<p>Still don't see why. For almost half their student body, they have a higher yield than Harvard, all of folks who have specifically chosen Tufts, not because of its "prestige", but because of its academic quality, and match to their own needs. A much larger proportion of these students don't require any financial aid whatsoever. And they still end up with a slightly more economically diverse class than H., with a larger proportion of the class with incomes below $60k, and more Pell Grant recipients.</p>
<p>If you are sure that the yield will remain the same, then it's not a problem, whether it's 20 or 80%. It's when it fluctuates unpredictably that it becomes a problem, especially as concerns housing. Swarthmore encountered this issue several years ago when more people accepted its offer than it had expected. This affected admissions decisions for the next few years.</p>
<p>The article concerning the Tufts waiter did expose a gem of truth, though it came across in a less than pleasant way. One person I know who transfered to Harvard noted that the work at Tufts was harder in contrast to what she was receiving at her newfound home. Of course this should be taken with a grain of salt as it is only one student with one particular perception. However, Byerly should be well acquainted with the Harvard students' complaints that the undergraduate education is not as good as it should be. There are elements of silver platter power (or lack thereof in certain instances for where it should be) at Harvard that is being swept under a rug.</p>
<p>Boy. That's all I wanted to do when I applied to college- to draw! Because 1) I have talent in that area and 2) I express my idea better that way.</p>
<p>or, write any of these "creative" essays (didn't know about Chicago's intellectual rap and essays until I graduated from high school, otherwise I'd consider applying there).</p>
<p>I agree with Rosa Parks- as a history major, I'd highlight the circumstances that would lead to my own theory. The questions really need to be broad and worldly that anyone could do it and also part of our daily lives/routine. Like, would you pick up the penny on the sidewalk or not? Or refer to that TP thread in College Life :)</p>
<p>Speaking of UChicago, changes in yield can result in problems. They had an unexpected increase in yield which has resulted in a more than 10% overenrollment even though though admit rate dropped. This puts a strain on housing and student to faculty ratios (though they have some room there since it has been 4:1). The question will be is it a trend or is it an aberration? I guess this is where the waitlist comes in handy.</p>
<p>As for Chicago's essays, I doubt they would be considered everyday. Interestingly, most are taken from suggestions made by admitted students from the previous year. It will be interesting to see how Tufts essay questions compare. For those interested: <a href="http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/level3.asp?id=376%5B/url%5D">http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/level3.asp?id=376</a></p>
<p>"Now is the time to get a firmer idea of who your core group is, rather than waiting until the worm turns later this decade. The number of applicants from the top economic quadrant is going to plunge. The number of potential white applicants is going to decline steeply. The number of potential black applicants will rise, and the number of potential hispanic applicants will soar."</p>
<p>Bryerly, have you ever taken Calculus? Do you understand the difference between increase/decrease and rate of increase/decreasae? The rate of increase of the white population is declining, but the population itself is continuing to rise. Although the number of white applicants will probably decline as a percentage of the applicant pool in the long run, the actual number will stay the same or continue to increase.</p>
<p>Also you raise another interesting question here: in the future will Hispanics be considered a URM? I mean obviously they are now, but will this be the case in 20-40 years?</p>
<p>Your snotty declaration about expected growth (or lack of growth) in the white applicant pool does not square with demographic projections. Has to do, in part, with birth rates, kid.</p>
<p>you assume quite a bit. the projections you reference assume that white and hispanic birthrates will remain the same, and evidence shows that with other immigrant groups, birth rates drop as successive generations become more americanized and prosperous. Also, the US has the highest birth rate of almost any developed country.</p>
<p>In a way I think this argument is pointless as the line between "white" and "Hispanic" is often very blurry. If someone is born in a relatively developed Latin American country like Argentina and has a non-Hispanic surname, are they hispanic? If someone is 1/4 hispanic and has a non-hispanic surname, are they hispanic? Can a person who grew up speaking only English be considered Hispanic? In my experience, many of the people who elite schools admit to fulfill their "hispanic" quota are not people who "look" hispanic.</p>
<p>Either way it doesn't matter. As the number of black and hispanic applicants rises, more will apply to Tufts.</p>
<p>This seems like a terribly vague and off-the-subject question, but taking into account the upward trend of applications to Tufts, do you think that will continue next year? (I'm hoping, of course :) )</p>
<p>We're not talking about <em>future</em> birthrates, but birthrates for this year and the past 18. the number of college-age kids out to the year 2024 are pretty much set at this point.</p>
<p>Why, Byerly, is that problem unique to Tufts?</p>
<p>What I don't get is why everyone thinks (well, not everyone, only those poor souls who have never set foot on the campus) that my beloved alma mater has some sort of issue. Everyone there loves their time at Tufts. Kids are crawling over each other to get in the door. They have 15 applications for every seat. They can reject 80% of their RD pool and still overaccept. </p>
<p>Sounds like a horrible, problem-ridden institution to me!</p>
<p>The fact that some of us LOVE Tufts so much, IMO, goes against everything people say about it being a safety school. Yes, it was the least competitive school to which I applied, but it was my second choice (MIT being my first). Three weeks into freshman year, I realised that I was at the best possible school for me - absolutely loved it and was downright thankful for rejection letters from MIT.</p>
<p>I agree - every time I have stepped on the Tufts campus (i'll be matriculating this Fall - and I'm very excited :)) I'm amazed at how intellectual and academic the school is, as well as the realization of how extremely difficult it is to get in the door. Sure, farmers and other layman only know of HYP, but that doesn't mean that Tufts is some generic, problem-laden, unknown institution! As Aries and others have posted time and time again, students are clamouring to get one of the few seats in the class; this perception of Tufts as a "safety school" is, to me, beyond comprehension. If Tufts is anything but one of the most highly competitive schools in the US, then one could call Bowdoin, Georgetown, and Northwestern safeties as well, and Wellesley and UChicago downright "in's".</p>
<p>I don't think Byerly has said the problem is unique to Tufts only that it is often cited as an issue for Tufts. That stats show a certain trend that they, and many other schools, would like to correct/improve.</p>
<p>Regarding yield rates, as Marite said earlier, it doesn't much matter if a school's yiled rate is 20% or 80%. If the actual yield rate does not come close to matching the yield rate originally projected thenn it is a problem. It is one of the major reasons for increased use of the waitlist so each school can better manage yield or perhaps more appropriately, enrollment.</p>
<p>NPR story this morning on Tufts quirky essays:
<a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7384490%5B/url%5D">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7384490</a></p>
<p>This is a very interesting thread, not just for the subject (thanks, OP), but for the variety of responses that touch on so many other frequently discussed CC topics. </p>
<p>I agree with NSM's response on page one re: interviewing. The intelligent interviewer with sharp skills & recent practice at it will be able to judge a level of creative thinking, which is also often best evident in spontaneous format such as an interview. Others have mentioned the opportunity for ghostwriting essays. Essays also protect an applicant from a spontaneous reply, & from the probing of oral answers, on the spot. (Not as a "trick" or sabotaging technique, rather as a dialogue, which is why interviews can be superior as a means of getting to know an applicant beyond the paper profile. A careful & sensitive interviewer, who is a true listener, can also find ways of overcoming language barriers by putting the applicant at ease & rephrasing in an effort to arrive at optimum give-and-take. I've done it, & I've seen it done by others.)</p>
<p>I have a theory about "quirky" essay prompts, such as proposed by Tufts (I agree that the examples are <em>terrible</em>.) I think what nonstandard essay prompts encourage more than anything else is respondents who like to write (or don't despise writing). They also identify a subset who have a lot of patience with the process. I don't think that necessarily the prompts I have seen from UChicago, etc. bring in a class of applicants more "creative" than other classes, although they obviously don't eliminate those, either. Nor has it ever meant that those who don't care for those particular quirky prompts in their respective application years do <em>not</em> have patience with writing & thinking. (A rather widespread misunderstanding.) </p>
<p>Thus, if Tufts is looking for creativity, they will find some by virtue of quirky essay prompts, but it's an inefficient method, as some of those will be accidental finds and some will be ghostwritten. </p>
<p>Re: superwizard's post. Interview questions can be tailored so as not to unfairly disadvantage recent arrivals to the U.S. However, regarding "favoring" humanities majors, I strongly disagree. Students raised in this country need basic history literacy, even if they're science/math majors. This includes a very key period & strand in our history: the civil rights movement, its precedents, its aftermath, its ultimate influence on current law, current politics, etc. Nowhere has ignorance over this topic surfaced so much on CC as in the arguments over the Jian Li matter, & secondarily over AA in general. I very much approve of interviewers asking questions (not the stupid one asked about Rosa Parks) designed to elicit a deeper understanding of this period & its impact.</p>
<p>Re: the more recent question asked about URM's. URM is URM. It's a mathematical determination. So, no: a subset which has become a majority is no longer a minority. In some situations (such as too often in my state, where it can become abused), URM is freely interpreted at times as -- and I'm quoting, "TRADITIONALLY under-represented minorities." Whether or not we're way past that in some cases. So an employment site that has had a dominant minority representation for 10-20 years still blithely screens for, and employs, archaically "under"-represented minorities. So far, I have never seen that happen in college admissions, and it is unlikely to happen, due to the U's self-interests in admitting diversely, interpreted as variety.</p>
<p>does anyone have a link to this year's Tufts questions? (I could only find the Tufts website which says check back in the fall for next year's Qs.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
The new questions might include one geared to evaluate a student's ability to make good judgments: Your roommate has the answer key to a test and has offered to share it with you. What do you do?</p>
<p>There will be no right answer, Sternberg and Coffin say. Rather, Tufts will evaluate the responses on the basis of their originality or feasibility, depending on the case.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No right answer? This one seems pretty cut and dried to me. I prefer Caltech's request to share an ethical dilemma, though it was hard to come up with one.</p>
<p>But on the whole, I am a fan of more interesting questions. Not sure Mr. Left Brain Mathson would be though!</p>