Brandeis vs Tufts vs UCLA

College Search & Selection
1

<p>So I am attending college this fall, and I have to make a decision about college pretty soon now. I’m a biology major who hoped to attain his PhD and become a professor (may follow the same path in a soft science). I’ve boiled it down to three choices: UCLA, Tufts and Brandeis University. I went to Brandeis during admitted students day, and then visited Tufts right afterwards. I won’t be able to look at UCLA before May 1st. Here is a list of pros and cons for each of the schools:</p>

<p>Brandeis University:
+ I love how their majoring system works, allows for a lot of cross-major studying
+ Very chill and intellectual atmosphere
+ Great landscaping (loved the rocks).
+ Beautiful and interesting modern architecture
+ Sister School of U Chicago (dream grad school)
+ Research Institute
- Many of the facilities are outdated, not renovated since the 70s.
- Some of the dorms are dingy (the sophomore ones especially)
- They seem to have lost a large portion of their donated money after Madoff (facilities won’t be renovated)
- The people look really ugly (on average) and are socially awkward
-Religious conservatism </p>

<p>Brandeis was once my dream college, but after doing a bit more research and after visiting, I’m not so sure. The social awkwardness was a little surprising—I was expecting it, but just not to the degree that I did. It seems like they’re aren’t as interested in having a good time while studying as other college, the latter of the two being more important to me. And some of the buildings seemed just so old and outdated, like the dining halls and the music hall. </p>

<p>Tufts University
+ Updated facilities (from what I saw)
+ Friendly out-going people
+ A nice college town w/ bars in close proximity
+ Great food
+ Nice student body size
-Only two years of guaranteed housing
-Mismatched architecture
-Pre-professional atmosphere
-Greek system (though perhaps not all that prevalent?)
-Seems to offer an inclusive social life for all students </p>

<p>I didn’t get to really see all that much from school since I was only there for a few hours, and what bothers me the most, is the presence of frats and of a pre-professional attitude on campus. Since I’m planning to pursue a PhD, having everyone worry about becoming a professional/making money sort of scares me. I want a school with a good academic reputation, not a professional one, necessarily. </p>

<p>UCLA
+ Great weather (I’ve only lived in Miami and Dallas)
+ Best location
+ Highest ranked and best reputation
- Anti-intellectualism
-Cut throat competition, especially in Biology (pre-meds)
- A social life centered around Greeks, and hierarchy of frats. Makes it sound cliquey.
- Polarity of campus (North and South side rivalry)
- Self-centered and a reputation of being shallow </p>

<p>Again, since I’ve never been to UCLA, everything I know is things that I’ve read online. Their social life being dominated by a Greek presence and the competition are uniformly the two largest factors that make not want to go there. </p>

<p>So at the moment, I'm leaning towards Tufts because of the better social life they offer and facilities. However, I still love how you get majors at Brandeis and the homeliness that they seem to create. I hear that Brandeis, despite its small size, actually has a decent gay population, which makes me feel better about going there. I read that they're either too Jewish, too ugly or too gay to date, which would work for me.</p>

2

<p>I have a daughter at Tufts, am very familiar with UCLA, and have friends with children at Brandeis. </p>

<p>You don’t say anything about money, so I will assume that’s not an issue. Since you are OOS for UCLA, that means you’ll be paying $50k+ a year for UCLA, possibly more, implying that you’re full-pay at Tufts and Brandeis as well. </p>

<p>My impression of your impressions is that you’ve spent a fair amount of time visiting Brandeis, not enough at Tufts, none at UCLA, and that’s colored your judgement. You learned enough about Brandeis to get a sense of the things you don’t like about it, and to possibly strike it off the list or at least think more carefully about what’s important to you. But saying that Tufts is dominated by Greek life, and that it’s strongly pre-professional, sounds like you didn’t get enough of a view of the school. As for UCLA, I think it would be a mistake to commit there without visiting. It’s a very different place than Tufts and Brandeis.</p>

<p>If you can’t go visit UCLA prior to May 1, contact the admissions offices at Brandeis and Tufts and ask if they can extend your deadline to respond to May 8. Then go take a look at UCLA. Go back and take another look at Tufts (but quickly, the year is drawing to a close). You still have a warm spot in your heart for Brandeis, so don’t rule that out. </p>

<p>If you can’t get Brandeis and Tufts to extend, then cut UCLA from the list, then post on the Tufts and Brandeis forums for more input. You may want to, ahem, come up with a more polite way to couch some of your objections.</p>

<p>You can get an excellent education at all three schools.</p>

3

<p>I’m not sure what anyone who doesn’t know you can add that would be helpful. Architecture aside, Brandeis and Tufts are pretty similar and have many cross-admits, so I’m not sure the differences in students that you observed are really true or are due to your viewing small samples of students (which can be quite misleading). And, if University of Chicago is your dream graduate school, than its a bit puzzling that you were concerned about socially awkward students at Brandeis. Chicago is an amazing place but it sort of sets the standard for social awkwardness. In comparison, I think most Brandeis students seem pretty normal.</p>

<p>While Brandeis and Tufts are both small research universities, UCLA is a huge one. It is an excellent place to go for a PhD (where you are mentored individually), but it is very easy to get lost as an undergraduate. And it can be difficult to graduate within 4 years because of the difficulty of getting into courses required for your major. But the UCLA campus is beautiful and, certainly, the weather is warmer in winter than Boston. Personally, I like the change of seasons and have never been much of an LA fan (although I love the San Francisco Bay area). But, obviously, all that is subjective.</p>

<p>If it were me, it would be a choice between Brandeis and Tufts and, as I said, the differences are not huge between them. I do think that Tufts is somewhat more pre-professional and certainly more preppy than Brandeis. Brandeis has a higher percentage of Jewish students. To me, the biggest difference is Brandeis’ emphasis on issues of “social justice.” That doesn’t mesh well with fraternities at Tufts.</p>

4

<p>Brandeis</p>

<p>-Religious conservatism</p>

<p>??? at Brandeis???</p>

5

<p>^While that is certainly not the term I would have used, I interpreted that as suggesting that there are more students wearing kippot at Brandeis than Tufts, which is probably true. But you are right, Brandeis is not Yeshiva University.</p>

6

<p>Narmster --</p>

<p>Brandeis vs Tufts.</p>

<p>We looked at both schools with both my daughters. </p>

<p>Brandeis – Eldest fell in love with Brandeis, applied early decision, went there and loved it. She had no trouble both double-majoring (English and Philosophy) and was also able to earn her Masters Degree (Philosophy) in four years. She found faculty to be very very accessable and helpful. School is about 50% Jewish. Religous Diversity is VERY important. Despite the hit to the endowment, based on what they write to us, they seem to have come through ok, and are keeping up with what they should be.</p>

<p>Tufts – Younger daughter loved Tufts, wouldn’t consider Brandeis. Though ultimately she’s going to a different school. It seems that faculty is also accessable there, and they run some excellent programs. It’s really a beautiful campus, though some complain about its hills.</p>

<p>To be honest – I felt that both schools were in the liberal side of the spectrum, both would be very gay friendly. Educationally, they are both top notch.</p>

<p>UCLA – I know next to nothing about this school other than it’s large and in California. I suspect that it would have a very different feel than either of your other choices.</p>

7

<p>No need to pay OOS rates for UCLA for a bio major (which can be had at any college). And if you can’t visit to find if you love it enough to pay $55k for all the public college warts, I’d drop it off your list quickly. (Actually, if I were you I never would have applied to a UC OOS.) fwiw: UCLA is very pre-professional.</p>

<p>“Pre-professional” is all relative. Perhaps Tufts is more pre-pro than Brandeis, but Tufts’ environment is much different than say, Emory, where nearly half of the Frosh are pre-health or pre-biz, or Hopkins where a third are easily premed. Tufts has strong IR program, which I guess one could term as pre-professional, but to me its more academic.</p>

<p>I don’t get the ‘sister school’ to Chicago, either.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>No doubt about that! :D</p>

8

<p>^ I interpreted the “sister school” thing as the fact that Chicago and Brandeis are in the same athletic conference (the UAA). So Chicago’s banner flys in front of Brandeis’ athletic center.</p>

9

<p>Recently visited both and DD thought the level of discourse in a small seminar she visited at each school was at a much higher level at Tufts. Up to that point of the visit she was liking Brandeis just fine. She came out telling me that the other visiting high school student and she had more pertinent comments on the topic than any of the students and she had not even read the preparatory material.</p>

<p>My observation as a parent was that Tufts was much better maintained. There was peeling paint on the front of the library and crumbling sidewalks at Brandeis. I don’t know how much this had to do with their endowment hit from the general market.</p>

<p>I do believe that Brandeis puts more of a priority on “social justice” as mentioned above. I agree with the suggestion to cross UCLA off your list if you can’t do an overnight there before decision time. OOS UCLA may be culture shock for you.</p>

10

<p>I don’t think that the maintenance issues at Brandeis are related to the most recent financial crunch–which is, by the way, mostly over. Brandeis did not lose more of its endowment than other schools in 2008-2010. In fact, as a percentage of assets, it faired much better than Harvard did. And it was not directly impacted by Madoff (i.e., he did not manage any endowment funds). Brandeis was indirectly affected, however, because some major donors (like Carl Shapiro) did have his funds with Madoff and lost a great deal. With the improvement in the stock market, Brandeis’s endowment is pretty much back to what it was before the crunch. </p>

<p>Brandeis’ problem is that, compared to older, better endowed schools (e.g., Tufts’ endowment is almost twice that of Brandeis’), it has always depended much more on current philanthropy. And it is always much easier to hit up a donor for a new building than it is to pay for mainenance. So Brandeis has many beautiful, shiny new buildings but the older ones have a lot of deferred maintenance. More conservative institutions (e.g., my alma mater, Johns Hopkins) won’t build a new building until it has raised both the money to build it and to maintain it. Brandeis has never done that.</p>

<p>I believe that Fred Lawrence, the new president, is taking steps to redress this. For example, the swimming pool recently reopened after being refurbished. It had to close for two years because the lack of proper maintenance finally caught up with it.</p>