<p>Thank you jazz/shreddermom, I appreciate it. I was not trying to make anyone angry, just wanted to point out that the gap between an older generation and a younger generation might keep the older generation from having the clearest view of how things are at universities today. But just as how you guys may not be familiar with our circumstances, we will not be familiar with the circumstances of those who follow us.</p>
<p>However, it really is too bad if what you say is true and the same stereotypes have remained across generations.</p>
<p>Reading through this thread as an uninvolved third party, I can’t help but observe that any potential pledger has likely been turned off from the idea of rushing by all the above arguing… it’s gotten to the point where it’s personal, and that in no way helps the OP.</p>
<p>Everyone relax and go to their neutral corners. If you got a beef with someone, by all means take it up… just do it privately</p>
<p>If we let the Zelda’s of the world simply state their b.s. then we’re all guilty. Sorry. Can’t do it. Zelda…hope you do leave this thread. Your negative babble is not helpful. BTW I’m a Dad…not a Mom. Not that that has the slightest to do with trying to promote civility, and general constructive attitude on this thread. </p>
<p>and this.
is the absolute classic delusional post. That’s the line that fools who have no facts to back up their outrageous statements use to defend their rants. ‘Oooh. I’m just doing the truth telling here’. You really need to grow up. As far as your insults to the mothers on this board, well you’ve pretty much shown us all what type of individual you are. Any flame I could throw toward you wouldn’t be half as insulting to you, as the demeaning language you heaped on people that you have no flippin’ idea about. You’ve pretty well just dissed yourself. Gawd, you are so conceited it’s just hard to even imagine.</p>
<p>I’ll only address Saitsuzan, for two reasons: 1 - I am FAR to busy living vicariously to have time to address anyone else, and 2 - it is nice to chat with a reasonable person.</p>
<p>*A note to begin: I don’t recall making any statements about sororities, because I don’t know anything about them. I entered into this thread to nit-pick about a HUGE misstatement about the degree requirements at USC that included a poster’s claim that she had to do twice as much work as other majors such as English, and that a degree from USC required fewer units than a community college AA. I then went on to question the feminist ideology of an individual who used several stereotypical insults to denigrate women whom she does not know. I am sorry you mistook those posts for comments on specific sororities. They were not.</p>
<p>The thing about stereotypes is that they only continue to exist if they are repeated. If individuals choose not to repeat them, slowly they will disappear. I am one of those individuals. Maybe one or two people reading this thread without commenting will choose to be individuals who do not repeat stereotypes as well, and things will improve a teeny-tiny bit.</p>
<p>Perhaps. as a USC student, you can identify with the common stereotype repeated on College Confidential that ALL USC students are spoiled rich kids. I am personally acquainted with enough USC students and am familiar enough with the incredible credentials you all present to know that stereotype is completely untrue, yet it is repeated over and over here, and I have seen it several times this admissions cycle. IF, as you say, “stereotypes exist for a reason,” do you then acknowledge that YOU are a spoiled rich kid?</p>
<p>Now, back to living vicariously… </p>
<p>P.S. Though I am lucky enough to have had the opportunity to invest myself full-time in raising my children in the past, I am currently a working professional, am finishing a graduate degree, AND have two younger children at home. And I still find time to answer a bazillion financial aid questions for all my favorite USC applicants. So you’ll have to find another stereotype for me - as well as for the other women on this thread - I am afraid you kids are **WAY **off base about them as well.</p>
<p>To start it all off, I’ll just go ahead and say that I don’t really have anything else to contribute to this topic and I’m simply posting to reply to alamemom’s post.</p>
<p>You said that you are replying to me, but you brought up stuff that someone else said, not me. I’m talking about the “stereotypes exist for a reason,” the mistaking your posts for comments on specific sororities, and the “vicarious” reference. I hope you don’t think that I was the one who said those things (although I’m pretty sure that your “vicarious” reference is not directed toward me).</p>
<p>I believe that stereotypes exist because large groups of people share common characteristics, and it is inevitable that other people will pick up on them. Human nature usually leans toward the easiest course of action, and since making stereotypes after picking up on those common characteristics is much easier to do than giving every individual the thought and consideration he/she deserves, most of us choose to just use the stereotypes. I stereotype, you stereotype, everyone stereotypes. It’d be great to eliminate stereotypes, but as you mentioned, things can improve only “a teeny-tiny bit.” This might seem pessimistic, but I don’t think eliminating stereotypes will ever get any easier. You might say that it is this kind of attitude that prevents any change from taking place, but I truly believe that it will never be possible simply due to the sheer amount of stereotyping that takes place in society and how hard it can be to change people’s minds. I myself wish it was less difficult, as I get very annoyed when people ignorantly refer to USC as a university of spoiled children.</p>
<p>I hope you understand that I was just trying to get some of the older posters to acknowledge that stereotypes are part of the system, which isn’t as nice and pretty as they might believe.</p>
<p>By the way alamemom, the list of things that you are currently doing is impressive, and I wish you good luck in everything that you do. Your posts helped me a lot while I was applying to USC a year ago, and the forum is very lucky to have you always providing answers and advice.</p>
I’m sure it is, but it is also used by social scientists, psychologists and sociologists to name a few. You’ve obviously never taken a communications class… I’m not trying to justify certain specific stereotypes, but you’re ignorant not to think that they’re helpful. **The concepts of “stereotype” and “prejudice” are often confused with many other different meanings ** and it seems like you’ve gotten them confused, so I’ll break it down for you. Stereotypes are ways of making simplified generalizations and conceptions of groups based on characteristics and prior assumptions. If our brain didn’t do this, it would incredibly hard to keep track of groups and things like that. If we didn’t allow our brains to make stereotypes, every <em>SINGLE</em> time we met a new person from a specific social group, we would be shocked and intrigued at the supposed novelty of their characteristic because we wouldn’t have the ability to link it to the other members of that social group. If we didn’t have stereotypes, it’d be impossible to keep track of various social groups as it’d be impossible to group people on standardized characteristics aside from obvious ones like hair color, skin color, etc. </p>
<p>Many social scientists agree that these mental shortcuts, categorizing and generalizations are absolutely necessary and inescapable for humans. Thankfully though, we tend to do it automatically. Obviously there are exceptions to stereotypes, as there are exceptions to almost any generalization in social theory. The thing that you’re making a mistake in assuming, though, is that stereotypes are only negative. They’re not. **Stereotypes can be both negative AND positive **. And it’s odd that you’d be so against stereotypes because they sometimes further perpetuate the self-fulfilling prophecy and help out certain social groups. Various studies have found that the POSITIVE stereotype that Asians are good at math and science has helped them in IQ and reasoning tests, as well as other math and science tests. It creates the self-fulfilling prophecy, as people who are treated as a certain way (due to stereotypes) tend to react and in turn perpetuate the prophecy (usually on the unconscious level). </p>
<p>Stereotypes can be positive mechanisms for social gains and advancements. Another example I can think of is television shows that depict racially diverse casts with minorities serving major roles as characters with high aptitude/intelligence (e.g., an African American doctor/lawyer, a Latino scientist, etc.). Children, who generally don’t have socially prejudiced views when they’re young as they’re less experienced with social-group interaction, have more positive views towards the minorities, are more accepting, and tend to generalize (read: stereotype) these ethnic minorities as intelligent. As a result, they treat them with respect, which in turn causes the self-fulfilling prophecy when they interact with these cultural subgroups in the real world, and in the process, ends up bridging social gaps. So stereotypes can be both positive and negative. Before you attack someone, you should at least take time to acknowledge their claim and the possibility that it’s factually based.
You’re right, and that 80% figure probably isn’t accurate. Instead of (again) attacking me and demeaning my post, you can simply ask nicely for me to cite where I’m getting my information from. The “complete and total b.s.” comment was unnecessary.</p>
<p>As per the 80% figure, I vaguely remember reading it somewhere but I don’t have the willpower to go look it up, so for the sake of argument we can just say it’s completely wrong. I feel like a hypocrite as I was criticizing anecdotal evidence in an another post, but I have friends in probably about 15 different fraternities and sororities, and of those, only one person didn’t have to go through hazing. This is only at my campus, so obviously it can be generalized. I was just going off personal experience.</p>
<p>
Please cite this! OTHERWISE I’LL RELEGATE IT TO THE COMPLETE ******** PILE. See how dumb I sound? I think it’s actually more that fraternities and sororities have done a better job at hiding it. This is just personal opinion though (read: I don’t have to cite this).
This isn’t true. A lot of kids will do whatever it takes to be accepted by a social group or fraternity that they think will better them. I don’t mean to call you out because you’re a parent, but a vast, vast majority of kids will NOT tell their parents any of the details of hazing because parents tend to overreact, alert IFC and pan-hel, who then end up kicking the fraternity/sorority off-campus, and it does nothing for Greek Life.
We don’t trash the system. It seems like you get really defensive about Greek Life and have the back-against-the-wall mentality. I agree that some of the posts (mine included) in here could’ve been more tactful. And I do agree that Greek Life for some tends to have a very negative view as per the media portrayals of it through Animal House, etc., but I think a majority of people actually highly respect it. I know on my campus the Greek chapters have done awesome charity and volunteer work, have done a lot to close the GPA-gap disparities between GDIs and Greek members, and donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to philanthropy and other events. It’s truly remarkable.</p>
<p>
It’s funny you mention this because it seems to me that your posts do the exact opposite of that. If you want I can send you a mirror so you can take a look at yourself to realize you’re guilty of it as well.</p>
<p>
Take a step back, take a deep breath, and relax. You’re telling Zelda she needs to grow up, then you close your post with that last section? No, sir, I think it’s YOU who needs to grow up. You’re an adult attacking the personal characteristics of a teenager/early 20s adult. </p>
<p>Now I know you’ll probably come back and say that I’m just a kid who has no idea what he’s talking about, and then probably attack my personal attributes and say I’m disrespectful, misinformed, delusional, probably a bit conceited, stupid, a midget, gay, loser, etc., and probably close with a bit how I’m a useless college student with way too much time on his hands who should go out and do something productive… go ahead. Do it. It says a lot about a person, enough for us to make STEREOTYPES about them and the social group they come from. Hopefully though, you’re just an exception…</p>
<p>tl;dr - Stereotypes can be both positive and negative. Greek Life is awesome but hazing is still pretty widespread. You should look in the mirror. /thread</p>
<p>Sharkfin. You are navel gazing. the diatribe about how helpful stereotypes are has no place here. Please go back and read either Zelda’s post…or my post highlighting her negative stereotypes…and then tell us all again how helpful they are. </p>
<p>Now upon reading your post again, I can’t really understand. Your point is? I didn’t call anyone names. But Zelda did. I only offer up facts. Zelda doesn’t. I only call out the negative stereotypes…Zelda propagates them. And it seems as if you are saying that her post is helpful. Whatever.</p>
<p>Naval gazing just means he’s contemplating meaningless trivial items. I agree that we should move on. But to dismiss a very real disagreement over whether hurtful negative stereotyping is a truly helpful way to discriminate housing choices…is not a silly conversation. Some of the posts have been silly…l’ll give u that much.</p>
<p>Georgia Girl’s comments at the beginning of this thread were very appropriate and accurate. Zelda’s comments were unfortunate. </p>
<p>Yes, I personally know that one of the sororities that she referred to as not so bright actually have one of the highest gpa’s of ANY group on campus. If you talk to some of the very well-respected Deans, they will tell you that as a whole the sororities have higher gpa’s and more involvement in student activities than other groups (personally told to me by one of the most senior Dean’s at USC). </p>
<p>Not all of sorority life is just parties. There are weekly Bible study groups. New pledges are assigned Big Sisters to help them get to know the campus, not just the sorority life. There are sororities that assign study partners, who meet regularly. There are some girls who spend hours working on philanthrophy projects, raising money for local charities. And not only do they raise the money, they visit and spend time with local groups, as did one sorority that spends hours at a senior housing center. There are varsity athletes and club athletes. There are some that are also involved in other USC clubs. There are those that choose to participate in the sorority leadership, and learn more skills in this area. And all have to maintain a certain gpa. </p>
<p>To the girl posting the question originally, sorority life has a lot of positives to offer. It’s not for everyone, but a large part of the students at USC are involved in Greek life. I suggest you talk to girls that you know in sororities, and also parents if you know some. And again, please don’t believe any of Zelda’s sterotype comments–they just aren’t true at all. </p>
<p>And thanks to Georgia Girl for all you do to accurately highlight USC on CC!</p>
<p>Hazing has really become a thing of the past, especially at USC sororities. One had a problem a couple of years ago and a national group of adults was sent to the house this past fall, to physically be there during rush and afterwards. In the sorority that my daughter joined, she phoned nightly with beautiful stories of candlelit ceremonies, sharing of stories, and not one case of hazing. (And yes, I would have known if there was any) Parents were asked to send baby pictures and stories that were shared with each other. </p>
<p>And the “Presents” ceremony, where parents were invited, was very special. The girls were lovely, each highlighted with what makes them special. The Mother/Daughter luncheon and the parents Presents luncheon were wonderful experiences, both for the girls and the parents. Parents made friends with other parents and got a chance to make friends with our daughter’s sisters and classmates.</p>
<p>Sorority life can be a wonderful experience and addition to college life–it’s all what you choose to make it!</p>
<p>I will make this my last post, but just took the time to read through all of the comments on this thread.</p>
<p>In regards to majors and class loads, of course not all sorority girls are Comm majors. In the case of my daughter, she is not only in a difficult major, but has 2 minors! And all this with a 4.0 gpa to date. And she is not unusual by any means. Many girls are doing exactly the same. </p>
<p>And to the girls asking for specifics, there is a fit for everyone. Don’t believe stereotype comments like those from Zelda, as they just aren’t true. Talk to alumni from not only USC sororities, but other colleges. As I mentioned before, find some current sorority girls (before rush begins) and get their input. Register for Rush and go through it, learning for yourself. Letters of rec can help, but not necessary. Grades are important, however. </p>
<p>Best of luck and congratulations on your acceptance to USC!</p>
<p>Disclaimer: I’m not biased, and I’m a '15 student.</p>
<p>You guys might think Zelda was being rude, but every USC student I have asked about Greek life has basically said the exact same thing. Regardless if it’s true or not, it’s what people think. And I highly doubt the majority of the human population would enjoy being associated with a group with a horrible reputation.</p>
<p>helloimdebora: it’s attitudes like that that absolutely destroy the rush process for some people. Story: We were in line to go into a house, I was in front of a girl who had earlier told me she loved that house. The girl behind her very clearly and audibly stated “OMG I can’t believe I have to go back here, I’ve tried to drop them every day. What makes them think I’d actually consider them?” The girl who loved the house (thank God) was strong enough to join and absolutely LOVES all her sisters.</p>
<p>Moral of the story: Yeah stereotypes exist, but it’s not necessary to go around shouting them out. Also, it’s really sad if someone lets other people influence your life so much as to decide which groups they can or can’t join based on reputation.</p>
<p>If “everyone she asked” said “exactly the same thing” as Zelda…and that no one would want to join something with a that kind of reputation…then why are there fraternity and sorority members at USC. it’s the conundrum question. It’s classic sci fi movie stuff…where you feed an unanswerable question into a computer and it spontaneously combusts because there is no right answer. </p>
<p>In this case it’s because the poster has no clue about what they are spewing. </p>
<p>Or, the other answer is that everyone he/she talked to hates the greek system, or isn’t a member of it. because…</p>
<p>If they were members of it…they would spontaneously combust because they hate themselves and their own reputation. </p>
<p>BWA HAHAHAHA hahahahahahahah haaa hee. I love the defenders of the negative, biased, and hurtful stereotypes. They’re so easy to pick apart. Thanks Sclove for telling it like it is.</p>
<p>“Also, it’s really sad if someone lets other people influence your life so much as to decide which groups they can or can’t join based on reputation.”</p>
<p>Wait so… this would apply to if a group of prostitutes and porn stars wanted to hang out with you right? So it would be sad if someone didn’t want to hang out with them because prostitutes and porn stars are generally frowned upon by society, correct? I’m not saying I agree with this, but ouch, I guess you’re calling a large section of the human population “sad.”</p>
<p>Sorority members at USC have incentives to become involved members of campus. My daughters house, and I know a few others base your room assignment in the house on a point system, so it is in your favor to become involved and to get good grades. My daughters house requires the girls to all be involved in at least two campus groups outside of the house. Her “sisters” are the leaders of many of these groups. I don’t think that is the cliche rich, spoiled princess that some would associate with Greek life.They hold fundraising activities, host parties for neighborhood kids, and had many opportunities to volunteer in the community.
The drinking in the USC Greek system is rampant sure, but my daughter is not a drinker, and has found other girls in the house to hang out with, and they feel very comfortable going to the parties just to socialize and dance. Not everyone is a boozer on “The Row”
For my daughter, her house provides her a home away from home. Her dorm wasn’t very social, so it gave her a place to hang out as a freshman. Older girls in the house helped advise her about clubs to join, classes to take. Alumni feed the kids special meals during finals, and decorate for the holidays. For an out-of-state kid, it was a perfect way to make a larger college become smaller in size.She is thrilled to be moving in the house next year, which is far cheaper than her dorm and meal plan cost us last year. And, she will have a big couch to lie on, a family atmosphere with girls very much like her, and a beautiful home to go to at the end of the day. I don’t see the downside!</p>
<p>pretty much what lucymom said. My house doesn’t require us to be involved outside the sorority, but they do encourage us to do other things. For example, I know at least two other girls and I write for Neon Tommy, another girl is a copy editor for the DT, one girl has her own sports radio show, etc–and we hardly have any Annenburg majors! That’s just girls who are involved in journalism, too.</p>
<p>I personally don’t drink, and neither do my “littles” (it just happened that way, it wasn’t on purpose), and we have fun responsibly on & off the Row. Being in a sorority helped me make new friends I wouldn’t have met otherwise and also it helps me get out of the USC bubble! I like going to see plays with my sorority sisters or exploring Santa Monica or just trying a new restaurant somewhere in the LA area. </p>
<p>I, too, was an out-of-stater, which admittedly made the first few weeks of school (especially including recruitment) difficult, but I love the smaller community I’ve found here at USC through my sorority and the Greek system. </p>
<p>p.s. living costs (room & board & meals, cooked by our own chef!) are less being in the sorority than they are living in USC-owned housing. Plus, we have our own chef. And he’s fantastic. It’ll be quite nice not having to worry about cooking for myself & eating better than on the meal plan, though!</p>