So, the npc calculator at D19’s college is often wildly inaccurate (wildly - like $30k per year difference for us). But a wildly inaccurate NPC is at least a “proper” excuse to decline an ED admit. So that kind of covers the parents who don’t know the nuances, even if it may lead to disappointment all round.
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Even for medical students, a 300K debt is way too high, I can’t imagine for UG one would even have a thought about it.
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Because it was public knowledge, and when they take kids every year ED and then one year suddenly don’t, including the valedictorian and then the following year the counselors have to re-emphasize ED and what it means then it just reaffirms what everyone knew anyway and those that didn’t were left wondering what happened. Just about everyone knew the story of this kid and why he did it. He pit a bunch of schools against CMU didn’t withdraw any of his applications and took the one that gave him the most $.
Kinda relate something similar. UMich was known not to accept any kids from my kids high school in 3-4 years span, including my elder son, all of suddenly during younger one cycle who is just a year behind his elder brother, showered with 10+ admissions including my younger son. As of today, I couldn’t figure out why that was the case, but this blacklist may be the culprit.
@SJ2727 YES! This was me!! My daughter’s school said we would qualify for about 30k in financial aid. Of course, it was a CSS school and I’m divorced and of course I don’t know what my exes assets are or his spouses etc. That was the killer and we got zip. Also, they claim they took into account that I would have another kid in college but they don’t even know where that kid was going to college so they must just apply some set number to the cost for the second kid. This fall I’ll have 3 and I didn’t bother with the CSS. Not worth it. We didn’t back out though as we were all in and making it work.
@PPofEngrDr Medical debt these days has got to be way higher than 300k. My ex husband had 250k in medical school debt and that was 20 years ago. There are some fields though that even if a student takes out full loans, they will get jobs. If you’re graduating from CMU in something like CS where they’re #1 or some rankings now have them #2 you will have no issue getting a 6 figure job right out of school. The debt can be paid off quickly, however, it can also be very daunting to some and IMO I would never recommend anyone taking on that kind of debt for college. Anyone can get a college degree and if you’re able to get into CMU then you’re able to go to a school that will give full tuition scholarships bringing the cost way down to just R&B. It’s what you do with the degree in the end that matters most.
This is separate from the choice to pursue professisional school.
There are many reasons why you can see a drought in your hs’s admits to some college. People tend to view this in a limited way, in a vacuum, as if their top kids belong at x because they always got in. They forget there are other hs, other great kids, other shifts among local competition, that can lead a college to focus less on your school.
Adcoms at top colleges don’t have all the spare time many envision to be checking other colleges’ ED lists, holding grudges against your hs or GC, etc.
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We’ll just agree to disagree. You don’t know anything about the particular situation so let’s just leave it at that.
Question: Do colleges ever contact the GCs involved when a student turns down an ED admit, especially if the NPC is mostly accurate?
Lol not all high schools are the same. There is one presentation on financing college at our school. There are 4 guidance counselors for 1200+ students, there is a 20 minute meeting with student/parents/counselor junior year. That’s it, there just isn’t time for anything else.
@srparent15 In fact to be surprise, it is one of those profession who had high cost for a long time and remain relatively static that way unlike UGs have skyrocketed.
Instate med schools may cost <50K a year and OOS/Private may run the bill 80K-100k. Texas has cheapest price <30K, yes its not typo, but unless you are Texans, highly unlikely to get in.
Even in that profession 300K debt is considered way too high today as it is one profession that is pushing hard for diversity and hence offering perks like free tuition (NYU started 2 years back) to entire class.
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This is in nutshell. The 5K per year is OP’s gripe, means total 20K for 4 years, not 80K cost. That difference certainly doesn’t warrant a break in ED agreement, irrespective of OP’s financial situation.
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There’s no minimum amount that determines what is unaffordable for a family, and what is an ‘allowable’ amount in terms of breaking an ED agreement. Again, each family’s situation is unique, and the ED police are not coming. Does that mean people shouldn’t behave ethically? Of course not. In general, I choose to believe most people are behaving ethically, and not trying to game the system when applying ED. They don’t know what they don’t know (e.g., NPCs may not be accurate for many reasons), and that understanding is NOT (in most cases) coming from HS GCs.
Fundamentally, it seems more of an issue to OP that even if they received $5K more from CMU, it would still not be affordable (OP mentioned not wanting to go $300K in debt).
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My daughter is a Texas resident. Her college tuition annually is $13k. Med school there would not be less than 30k all in annually. It’s still cheap at $21k a year but even that is about $85k for the 4 years of med school and doesn’t take into account living expenses which is all part of the COA and loans most endure. Unfortunately, I’ve been there done that and happy my kids have no desire to go to med school.
@thumper , I agree that school counselors have to walk a fine line, and I fully understand that they’re overloaded. All I’m saying is that there’s a reason the school counselor is required to be involved in the signing of ED paperwork. Whether they can ask about finances or not, the point of their involvement is sort of like a medical informed consent process - they are required to explain what the student and family are signing, and what their due diligence should involve. If the counselor told them to run the NPC and complete the CSS before making the commitment, and they still didn’t, then it’s entirely on them; but if they were never told at all, then the counselor dropped the ball IMHO. Explaining the financial implications of the decision and the process of vetting the school for affordability is not the same as asking for financial info. If this weren’t an expectation of the counselor, then what would be the point of requiring them to be part of the signing process at all?
Ofc, if you add room and board that would add up little bit, but TX is still far cheaper even you live in its metros. R&B is always a variable that goes with COL area of college and one’s own life style. But when you compare the medical school costs of TX to some UGs, medical schools feels cheaper nowadays.
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/the-short-list-grad-school/articles/public-medical-schools-with-the-lowest-in-state-tuition-and-fees
My younger one is on that journey but hasn’t been in medical school yet. He is not going to be TX residence in near future, so I am bracing for impact should he ends up with med school.
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School counselors are well aware that if the finances do not work out, this is a legit reason for declining an ED acceptance.
@aquapt I agree with you. ED applicants need to do their due diligence. But fact is…sometimes even when they do (like running the NPC) the numbers with the actual award don’t align.
Honestly, it has long been my opinion that if finances are a significant consideration, then applying ED isn’t the best plan because the student can’t compare multiple acceptances/financial aid offers/net costs.
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OP also said “If CMU gave us even just around 5k additional in grant annually, I would consider attending”, that is after the fact that they will be in 300K debt knowledge and comparing with other options already have on table.
Agree there is no ED police for OP, but OP is flat out unethical by own admission of facts.
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I don’t know enough of the facts to judge OP’s ethics, but it’s not like OP won’t bear a consequence if they back out of the ED agreement due to lack of affordability…they will have wasted their only ED chit. I say ‘only’ because their HS GC is unlikely to support an EDII app (which IMO would be appropriate).
That lack of affordability claim lost the credit when op made a statement “If CMU gave us even just around 5k additional in grant annually, I would consider attending”.
Instead if op stated “If CMU gave us even just around 5k additional in grant annually, I wouldn’t able to afford”, that would be a credible argument to suggest OP has more need than mere 5K.
I am on same page w.r.t. GC, blacklist and all other nuances.
GCs aren’t required to counsel kids re ED or FA. They (and the student and parents) sign re the intent to attend if the FA package is right.
As for this OP, some here are expecting him/her to phrase all this perfectly. OP made mistakes, misunderstood the Fafsa SAR, counted on that. Unethical? I’m not so fast to judge.
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