<p>Cobrat, again, who do you think begins the process of LD testing? Who do you think participates in IEP meetings? Who do you think implements the IEP? And also where are these schools with 40 kids in a class? Not Catholic schools of the 1950s , now.</p>
<p>Go ask your friend if he assesses students. We will wait for you to come back with the answer.</p>
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<p>I’ve asked him a few years ago and he gave the same answer. </p>
<p>If he observes something that’s of concern regarding LD, disciplinary issues, etc, he alerts the admins/parents to potential issues and any testing which needs to be done. The actual thorough assessment is done by those who specialize in doing them whether they’re childhood developmental specialists, psychologists, etc. </p>
<p>Anything more is beyond his training and goes beyond what his school district allows.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, cobrat’s former roommate (older cousin / younger cousin / hs classmate / college classmate) has spake. Therefore, the discussion is over. Get with the program.</p>
<p>I’m sorry Pizzagirl. You are right as always.</p>
<p>"If he observes something that’s of concern regarding LD, disciplinary issues, etc, he alerts the admins/parents to potential issues and any testing which needs to be done. "</p>
<p>And when he makes the decision to alert someone or not, he is making an assessment. See how that works?</p>
<p>I know I’m right. I just called my college roommate and she said I was right that one time when we lived together. So therefore, as you can see, my college roommate is an expert on everything.</p>
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<p>He’s alerting others for the need for the assessment. He’s not performing the assessment.</p>
<p>I think the root of our argument is the difference in the way we perceive the word assessment. I am using it in the sense of a deep detailed evaluation performed by an expert in childhood development, child psychology, LD, etc. Areas for which teachers may be trained enough to notice issues so they could alert the parents/admins and appropriate expert to perform the actual detailed assessment.</p>
<p>One aspect that has not yet been addressed on this thread is that the K-12 teaching style heavily favors left-brain “auditory-sequential” learners and strongly penalizes right-brain “visual spatial” thinking. Males appear to be disproportionately visual-spatial and develop their right-brain functions years earlier than females; females, in turn, develop their left-brain features years earlier:</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.visual-learners.com/support-files/boys_vs_girls.pdf[/url]”>http://www.visual-learners.com/support-files/boys_vs_girls.pdf</a></p>
<p>I helped raise two visual-spatial sons – one of them a far extreme case – and discovered that I, too, am predominately visual-spatial, although I managed to work out my own coping strategies over time. </p>
<p>Here are some common characteristics of visual-spatial learners. They:
<p>Until a student gets into high school AP classes, classroom participation, repetitive homework, and step-by-step processes rather than final answers are heavily weighted in grading. Many visual-spatials have trouble using the standard textbook methods and invent their own processes for learning, which is frowned upon (and sometimes labeled as suspected cheating because the teacher can’t follow the methodology). Then, too, many K-12 teachers like to spoon-feed information without big-picture context and then explain the whole at the end of the school year.</p>
<p>[Visual-Spatial</a> Learners](<a href=“http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Visual_Spatial_Learner/vsl.htm]Visual-Spatial”>http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Visual_Spatial_Learner/vsl.htm)</p>
<p>It’s really tough for a kid to spend a decade or more in the school system being told he is doing things wrong when he is only doing them differently. While the research on this subject is relatively recent, I think that many male teachers intuitively adjusted their teaching style to better accommodate such learners. I also suspect that many females with a strong visual-spatial bent have, in recent decades, abandoned the K-12 teaching track and have instead taken advantage of better opportunities elsewhere, perhaps in STEM academia or in industry.</p>
<p>^ I think there are preferred ways of “thinking” but cognitive science has not been able to show that we actually " learn" in different ways. I don’t think there is any research showing that a significant number of boys learn differently than girls ( I may be wrong…this is just what I remember).</p>
<p>will admit to not reading every single page.</p>
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Cobrat, where do you get all of this? With the exception of Phys ED, teachers, No one who works for the NYC DOE is teaching 40 kids because contractually can’t teach more than 34 students in high school (less in the middle school or elementary school grades). If a teacher had 40 kids in a class they would file a grievance so fast that your head would spin. , The UFT reps go through the rosters with a fine tooth comb to make sure that classroom scheduling and placement are in compliance (if I had a dollar for every programming master to ensure that students classes are at the cap)</p>
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<p>If your friend teaches for the NYC DOE, I would wonder why has it taken 6 years for him to get tenure, when teachers usually get tenure after year 3 (it has just been in the last 2 years that the rules for tenure changed and even then, it is teachers that the administration are concerned about, that get their tenure extended).</p>
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<p>I don’t think that you or your friend have the foggiest notion as to what goes into an assessment or a request for an initial eval (which has to be made by the parent). I am willing to be money, that your “friend knows nothing about special education, testing or evaluations.</p>
<p>But I digress…</p>
<p>I think one of the biggest challenges comes from the ways that we socialize little boys vs the way we socialize little girls. Little boys like and engage in rough and tumble play, are spontaneous, physical, enjoy making a lot of noise, and have less self regulation than little girls. This presents a disconnect in the classroom where most teachers and caregivers, especially in the early grades are women and the early education reflects a female culture orientation (where we sit nice, on’t yell and be polite to others and enjoy quiet play). Boys take up more space in their daily activities, and are kinesthetic learners and enjoy hands on learning, much of this is not embraced in the early childhood setting.</p>
<p>LoremIpsum - I don’t know if you have read Upside Down Brilliance - all about visual learners. My son was evaluated and determined to be a very strong visual learner and a poor auditory learner. He was a textbook case of visual learner as you have described. Maybe as limabeans said, there is no such thing as different learners. I can only say that a lot of things made sense once we were told this. The psychologist who did the testing explained that this is mostly seen in boys. Unfortunately, school in the early grades is more compatible with the characteristics commonly seen in auditory learners. If the visual learners can hang in there, they will benefit later on when the work is more about making connections and integrating information rather than just rote learning. Those who have a bit of both probably have the most success in school.</p>
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<p>I don’t know what cognitive science has proven or not proven yet, but I know from my own direct experience that I cannot learn a foreign language just by hearing it, I absolutely have to see it. At that point, I can build sentences on-the-fly by seeing the words in my head and assembling them like those magnetic words people put on their refrigerators. This has left me in the curious position where I can construct a statement quickly, but am largely unable to parse the response as it flies by me. Also, I’ve had no luck with Asian languages due to their very different alphabets. </p>
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<p>Upside Down Brilliance is a superb work that helped me better understand my sons and which also led me to my own ah! experience, helping to explain why some things came easy to me over the years and others seemed hopelessly difficult. Even today, I approach a new learning situation by picking away at the details from all angles – back to front, front to back, from the middle outward – and by trying to “attach” what I’m learning to previous knowledge as I go; this is very different than the conventional beginning-to-end linear sequence that left-brain learners usually pursue.</p>